Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Battery Charger

G

Glenn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Melissa

Is it because you want to charge the individual cells?

/Glenn

If so - do you have other batterypack criterias?

/Glenn
 
G

Glenn

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am charging a 3.7 V 1200mAh LiIon battery. I want to isolate the AC to DC adapter because of safety issue.

melissa

The ac to dc adapter should have adequate isolation. Is that not good
enough?

/Glenn
 
I am trying to provide user more protection. The other thing is that its an interesting problem to solve. But I do need some direction here.

melissa
 
W

whit3rd

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to provide user more protection.

More than what? There's some common test protocols, and models of human-body
load, involved. If you want an UNCOMMON test or model, it'll cost ya.

Easiest way to provide 'user' more protection, of course, is to use connections that
the user doesn't come in contact with. My electric toothbrush charges by proximity,
not an electrical contact anywhere you can see or touch.
 
I was told by a collegue that this is a challenging problem. i took sometime and tired to figure out but could not figure it out. You can take the AC to DC adapter out of the picture and use a +5v power bench power supply.
 
J

John S

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was told by a collegue that this is a challenging problem. i took
sometime and tired to figure out but could not figure it out. You can
take the AC to DC adapter out of the picture and use a +5v power
bench power supply.

Please explain in detail what makes it challenging.

Please explain what level of isolation you are seeking.

Please quote any specifications you must meet.
 
Hi,



Need help with the following problem. What isolation should I use?



ac to dc adapter ( 5v) -----> isolation -------> LTC 4062





LTC Data sheet:



http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/4062fb.pdf





AC to DC Adapter:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EMSA050120K-P5P-SZ/T1102-P5P-ND/2352095





melissa

Hello,
Could your colleague specify where the challenge
is ? Most wall warts and bench power supplies use
the standard step-down transformer->bridge rectifier->
capacitor bank->voltage regulator/overvoltage
protection design. So the isolation is there right
at the start. Is there anything special - a biomedical
device with some special requirements ?
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am charging a 3.7 V 1200mAh LiIon battery.
I want to isolate the AC to DC adapter because of safety issue.

** Lose that switching AC adaptor and use one that incorporates an iron
transformer - no need for regulation as the IC can take up to 8v input.

Iron transformer adaptors, with Class 2 or Double Insulation, have a long
track record of being exceptionally safe - the same cannot be said for most
of the switching types pouring out of China.

Another idea is to change the plug on the output cable to a non touchable
kind - but it cannot be any connector that is associated with AC power.

You have not indicated whether the imagined " safety issue " originates
from the adaptor or the battery side of things ?



.... Phil
 
M

miso

Jan 1, 1970
0
The wall wart she picked is a switcher. Actually most modern wall warts
are switchers these days...for better or worse.

It is certainly possible to add a second DC/DC with isolation, but that
is a lot of work for a dubious return on investment. It would most
certainly reduce the efficiency.

I suppose if you really didn't trust the wall wart peddlers, you could
go AC on the output. Then all the peddler is supplying is a low tech
transformer and some sort of short circuit protection element.
 
G

Glenn

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was told by a collegue that this is a challenging problem. i took sometime and tired to figure out but could not figure it out. You can take the AC to DC adapter out of the picture and use a +5v power bench power supply.

Hi Melissa

Please read:

The "old" way is to use a 50Hz or 60Hz insulation certified (5000V)
transformer. E.g. the transformer could have the primary winding
separated from the rest of the windings on the bobbin. Combined with a
linear regulator this is normally a very robust solution, that works for
decades.

The "new" way is to use a insulation certified (5000V) high frequency
transformer in some SMPS circuit. The problem with these is that the
designer or component-buyer sometimes use bad capacitors or bad designs
(incl. to little filtering) so they to often fails prematurely. The most
used way of signalling back from the secondary circuit the primary
circuit is to use an optocoupler that can 5000V (most can). The good
thing about SMPS is that they can be efficient. Some can even use almost
zero power from the grid when not loaded on the secondary side.

Another way is to transfer the power wirelessly. There is ongoing
research and development to make this a public reality. The area has of
cause been littered with patents.

-

Please note that the primary to secondary circuits must also be
insulation certified (5000V).

Anything that bridges (e.g. noise suppression capacitors) between
primary and secondary circuit must withstand 5000V.

Note that the term isolation transformer (e.g. 110V->110V - or
230V->230V) has a special meaning. They are used by repair technicians:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_an_isolation_transformer

-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_isolation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Power_supplies

October 27, 2012, A dozen USB chargers in the lab: Apple is very good,
but not quite the best:
http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

USB Power Supply/charger Test:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTest UK.html

February 12, 2013, Teardown of a HomePlug Adapter:
http://openrov.com/forum/topics/teardown-of-a-homeplug-adapter

-

5kV HIGH VOLTAGE DIGITAL INSULATION TESTER WITH SOFTWARE & USB:
http://www.test-equipment.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=625

Professional insulation meter with test voltage programmable up to 10kVDC:
http://www.ht-instruments.com/en/products-ht/ht7052

Fluke 1550C Insulation measuring device, 250 V - 5 kV Manufacturers
guarantee 3*:
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product...g-device-250-V-5-kV-Manufacturers-guarantee-3

Comparison table - insulation measuring instruments:
http://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/nettable/comparisontable-insulationmeasuringinstr.htm

-

Back to Basics: Voltage Regulator ICs, Part 1
There are two basic types of regulator ICs, linear and switch-mode. The
linear regulator operates in the linear region and is always on, whereas
basic the switch-mode type turns on and off and requires a rectifier to
produce a dc output voltage.
http://powerelectronics.com/regulators/back-basics-voltage-regulator-ics-part-1

Back to Basics: Voltage Regulators, Part 2.
In this second part of the Back to Basics series on regulators, we
examine buck (step-down) and the boost (step-up) forward and flyback
topologies, as well as the SEPIC, hysteretic and multiphase converters.
http://powerelectronics.com/regulators/back-basics-voltage-regulators-part-2


Off-Line SMPS Failure Modes PWM Switchers and DC-DC Converters
http://www.ti.com/analog/docs/litab...reNumber=slva085&docCategoryId=1&familyId=398
Quote: "...
This transistor failure is often caused by bad capacitors. It is
extremely common to find output filter capacitors that are swollen or
leaking electrolytic material.
...."

Badcaps.net - What Causes This:
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

How-To Repair a Desktop LCD with Bad Capacitors:
http://www.aplusperfect.com/articles/lcd_capacitor_repair
http://www.lcdparts.net/howto/default.aspx

-

7 June 2007, Wireless power a reality:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/jun/07/wireless-power-a-reality

13 August 2012, Tiny transmitters that cost a penny to print unveiled:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19208112
Institute of Physics (2012, August 9). Wireless power for the price of a
penny?. ScienceDaily:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120810083720.htm

Dec 12, 2012, Magnetic metamaterials could boost wireless energy
transmission:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article...ials-could-boost-wireless-energy-transmission

DIY: Wireless Battery Charger:
http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-mag/Issue-1/issue 1-pg-4.htm

http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/

/Glenn
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Glenn said:
Hi Melissa

Please read:

The "old" way is to use a 50Hz or 60Hz insulation certified (5000V)
transformer. E.g. the transformer could have the primary winding
separated from the rest of the windings on the bobbin. Combined with a
linear regulator this is normally a very robust solution, that works for
decades.

The "new" way is to use a insulation certified (5000V) high frequency
transformer in some SMPS circuit. ...


That's the way it's done. If the voltage on the other side doesn't have
to be regulated there would be no need for a feedback path. Since
Melissa uses a LTC4062 to post-regulate she has some wiggle room on the
secondary voltage. But not much, I believe these don't like more than 8V
on the input.

But she has to come forward with some detailed specs to see what's
really needed here.

[...]
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Tim Wescott"
If the Chinese really put their minds to it I'm sure that they can figure
out how to build a profoundly cheap iron transformer adapter that ignores
all safety standards,


** Irrelevant, crazy bullshit.

YOU are not SURE of any such thing.

**** off - wanker.
 
G

Glenn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Guys,

I found the following link

http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/4000fb.pdf

See Page 36. What do you think? I have no idea how does his circuit work.

melissa

Hi!

This group need some information about what your purpose with the
isolation/charger is e.g.:
* fun
* learn
* save money
* design a professional charger
* safer charging

Please note that standard li-ion cells are potentially very unstable if
you do not follow some security rules. They can explode and catch fire
instantly - or sometimes long after they have been mishandled.

So do not start with standard li-ion chemistry cells.

-

Instead start with LiFePO4 li-ion - or LSD-NiMH.

LiFePO4 - please note the pdf-papers. This accumulator very robust, but
still needs care when used. Can under optimally circumstances be fully
cycled more than 7000 times. Will not catch fire even if shot with a nail:
http://www.buya123batteries.com/ANR26650_Lithium_Ion_Cylindrical_Cell_p/anr26650m1b.htm

-

LSD-NiMH:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–metal_hydride_battery#Low_self-discharge_cells

These might work 5 years and/or up to 1800 cycles under optimally
circumstances. An unloaded LSD-NiMH can keep the charge for more than a
year:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop

Generally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Battery_charging

-

Test of another LiFePO4 (LFP) accumulator:

SANDIA REPORT
SAND2008-5583
Unlimited Release
Printed September 2008
Selected Test Results from the LiFeBatt
Iron Phosphate Li-ion Battery
Thomas D. Hund and David Ingersoll
Prepared by
Sandia National Laboratories
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185 and Livermore, California
http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf
Citat: "...
Test results have indicated that the LiFeBatt battery technology can
function up to a 10C discharge rate with minimal energy loss compared to
the 1 h discharged rate (1C).
.....
The majority of the capacity loss occurred during the initial [!] 2,000
cycles, so it is projected that the LiFeBatt should PSOC cycle well
beyond 8,394 cycles with less than 20% capacity loss.
.....
[See graph pdf-page 23]
[ Read: 48% capacity available at -30°C. ] [ very useable! ]
[ Read: 65% capacity available at -20°C. ]
[ Read: 74% capacity available at 0°C. ]
.....
3.8 Over Voltage/Charge Abuse Test
In Figure 16 the events in an over charge/voltage abuse test are
documented. Initially, as expected, the cell voltage increases quickly
while being charged at 10 A, but then slowly increases after 4.7 V. The
cell voltage slowly increases for about 30 minutes while the cell
temperature continues to slowly rise to about 100 °C at which time cell
voltage spikes to the maximum value of 12 V. At about 110 °C the cell
vents liquid electrolyte without any fire or sparks and then
open-circuits at 116 °C. After open-circuiting and a loss of
electrolyte, the cell looses all voltage at 120 °C. The data acquisition
shuts down due to a no voltage condition, but temperature is manually
monitored until the cell reaches its maximum value at 160 °C about 20
minutes after the cell open-circuited.
...."

-

Test of LiFePO4-accumulator:

Nail penetration testing A123 Li-ion [ one of the best
LiFePO4-accumulators ]:

-*-

Comparison with other Li-ion chemistries (non-LiFePO4):

Exploding Laptops on Good Morning America:

Nail penetration testing Standard Li-ion:

World's Most Dangerous Battery!:

Modify Li-Po Battery Nail Penetration Test:

Glenn
 
Top