Another Approach

[mel]

Same point as before - we use to much electricity, we are to dependant
on it, maybe alternatives exist to a back up system that is just going
to re-inforce the need for electricity...

Mel


Dave Hinz a écrit :

 

[Dave Hinz]

Same point as before - we use to much electricity, we are to dependant
on it, maybe alternatives exist to a back up system that is just going
to re-inforce the need for electricity...

Fine, so go live in a cave off the grid then. I'll continue to be
practical about it & do what I can to reduce my dependancy on
external sources of power. Just don't expect your spouting of
unsupportable criticisms to go unchallenged.

Enjoy your fantasy-world...

 

[Bob Adkins]

And it isn't 280 million, it is the entire earth, all the animals
and plants on it.

So what is so new about that?

Agreed. I don't see anything dangerous about being on the grid.


Bob

 

[Steve Spence]

our "grid" was out for over 12 hours last year, so don't be touting the
"reliability" of the grid too loudly. That and ice storms make batteries the
way to go. or gridless entirely.

 

[Steve Spence]

5 hours without electric will make the homeowner with a oil furnace, gas
furnace Forced air or water circulators) or electric heat freeze at -40 in
our winters. We use wood with battery backed water circulators. solar, wind,
and generator keep the batteries charged.

 

[Me]

Maybe the problem is dependancy on electricity, not the instability of
local grids.

A 5 hour power outage shouldn't reduce anyone to a raving lunatic... or
are all those panic films made by americains based on reality? Do you
all run around like a bunch of lost sheep, drive of roads, scream, sob,
and trample people in crowds at the slightest weird event?

There I was thinking that these films were all grossely overexagerated!

I'll have to revise my opinion of americans and their ability to deal
with out-of-the-ordinary events.

If you live in a climate that is so cold that you have a health risk
everytime the electricity goes down, maybe you should integrate
alternative heating methods - what about a log fire and a couple of
mattresse so that you can sleep in the lounge room with the fire? Or a
slow-combustion stove (withou an electric fan) That way you can heat and
cook when the power is down. Even in totally urban areas, you can have a
couple of bags of logs in the garage in case of emergencies, can't you?


We dont't "need" that power, we "want" it to be comfortable and because
we have become addicted to it.

Mel





Fred B. McGalliard a écrit :

Maybe the problem is a "Frenchman" who doesn't have a clue.

me

 

[Me]

Unfortunatly, electricity generation can and does kill people. That's
why we should be trying to reduce our electricity use.

Mel

and this "Frenchman" spews forth more crap than a goose.....
better watch out for the airplane parts falling out of the sky and
landing on your "Pointy Head"......Breathing can cause death to, so
maybe you will just stop doing it, and leave this world a better
place.....


me

 

[mel]

1) I am not male.
2) I'm not sure nationality has anything to do with the dicussion at
hand - or are you just so self defensive (and/or anti-french) that it's
the only argument you can give me?
3) People running amok in crowds happens everywhere. Most Hollywood
films happen to show Americans, but the europeans are known to have
crushed people to death (to get out of a hail storm) and the Australians
are known to have stampeded (to buy a fridge really cheap) and soccer
fans are known to crush and stampede pretty readily, regardless of thier
nationality. Most Hollywood films happen to show Americans. Most
Hollywood films happen to show Americans. Most Hollywood films happen to
show Americans. Is that enough for you?
4) Normally I try to be polite.
Mel
Me a écrit :

 

[Dave Hinz]

1) I am not male.
2) I'm not sure nationality has anything to do with the dicussion at
hand - or are you just so self defensive (and/or anti-french) that it's
the only argument you can give me?

See, because of your TOP-POSTING, I had to go scroll down to see
who the heck you're answering. Way to communicate...not.

You, Mel, are the one who brought up nationality in the context of
this topic, not Fred or me. "So is it true that Americans get
all panicky like I see in the hollywood movies" or whatever it was.

4) Normally I try to be polite.

But when you get to Usenet, you forget there are people on the other
side of that screen, and fail to do so, is that it?

 

[wmbjk]

What, that we panic and run through the streets? I don't think so.

Any 911 operator can tell you some stories. I wouldn't be surprised if
they receive calls when breaking news interrupts afternoon soaps.
Expect rioting if Taiwan cuts off our supply of electric
drape-openers.

Wayne

 

[Dave Hinz]

Any 911 operator can tell you some stories. I wouldn't be surprised if
they receive calls when breaking news interrupts afternoon soaps.

Oh, I'm sure. The county I'm in is pretty rural, so at least there's
fewer of 'em, but yes, I've chatted with the dispatchers more than a few
time, swapping stupid-caller-stories. But, what I was taking
exception to was the other poster's "So hollywood is right then"
attitude, when the topic at hand is effective power generation methods.

 

[Bob Adkins]

Dependancy on electricity is a reality for many people.

So is water. However, I don't panic when the water jug is empty.

Nothing is 100% dependable. Getting 99% reliable is cheap and easy. Each
successive .1% up to the elusive total reliability costs increasingly more.
It simply isn't worth it, nor is it needed except in operating rooms, where
it can be a life and death matter.

Bob

 

[Dave Hinz]

So is water. However, I don't panic when the water jug is empty.

I don't either, I have a plan to deal with it, y'see.

 

[Bob Adkins]

What, that we panic and run through the streets? I don't think so.

You didn't watch "Gorgo" did you?

Bob

 

[Pom-pom-pom]

Dependancy on electricity is a reality for many people.


Well, let's see. I live in a rural area, with my own water well.
No electricity = no water. I work in the IT industry, and need the
ability to connect to my computers at work to work on them. No
power=no network=no paycheck. In this part of the world, the
firefighters and emergency medical folks are all volunteers -while
most of my fire and EMS equipment is battery powered, a long enough
outage would meen no power=no chargers=no batteries=no radio,
no defibrillator, no ambulance...

Like it or not, electricity is necessary for the modern way of living.
Perhaps you personally are willing to "tough it out" and live without
it for 5 hours or days, but there are those of us who choose to not
inflict the same inconvenience on ourself. (...)*

Can't you survive 5 (five) hours without electricity?

They are many ways to use up that time.
- Clean your house
- Repaint this rusty fence
- Fix that old bike
- Make your paperworks (yes all that stuff that is sooooo long overdue, hmmm
y' know what I mean!)
- Read that book on the last computer technology that you feel you'd better
know to keep your skills up to date.

All these tasks are productive, they contribute in making money or a better
life from your dollars. They don't need electricity, just shaking your
procrastination.

But you may also:
- Talk to your neighbor. These emergency situations are great for social
networking, people who never talk to eachother all come chatting.
- Play with your kids, they'll love this unexpected extra time much more
than a standard sunday's soccer game.
- At last resort, take a nap.

By the time you are finished, the grid is back.

 

[Dave Hinz]

(snip)


Can't you survive 5 (five) hours without electricity?

I'm not the one who said "can't survive", I said "I choose not to".

They are many ways to use up that time.
- Clean your house

Pager goes off, system down at work. Data center's staff calls me, as
it's my primary system and I'm lead. I have no power, so my laptop
works but my switchgear doesn't. Not a problem, because I've taken
steps. Nobody is panicing, nobody is running in the streets,
nobody is not surviving. But, saying "Gee, our power is out for
an unknown length of time, I guess you'll have to wait" isn't an
option.

- Repaint this rusty fence
- Fix that old bike
- Make your paperworks (yes all that stuff that is sooooo long overdue, hmmm
y' know what I mean!)
- Read that book on the last computer technology that you feel you'd better
know to keep your skills up to date.

Any computer technology article printed in a book is already obsolete.

By the time you are finished, the grid is back.

You've never experienced a multi-day outage then, I take it? These things
don't come on a schedule, when it goes out it could be seconds, it could
be days. That's the thing about an unscheduled outage, y'see, it's
_unscheduled_.

 

[Steve Spence]

-40 in January, tell me how 5 hours without electricity (and heat, for most
folks) is just a minor inconvenience ....



--
Steve Spence
[email protected]
http://www.beavercreekconsulting.com

 

[Dave Hinz]

-40 in January, tell me how 5 hours without electricity (and heat, for most
folks) is just a minor inconvenience ....

Gee, Steve, is that -40 Farenheit, or -40 Centigrade?

 

[Steve Spence]

LOL

--
Steve Spence
[email protected]
http://www.beavercreekconsulting.com

 

[Pom-pom-pom]

[email protected]
http://www.beavercreekconsulting.com

LOL

No, not LOL.

One should always precise the units, especially when using non-standard
ones. Don't forget that this is an international forum where only a minority
of countries still use non-metric units. For MOST people in the world, -40 F
means nothing. I really don't know how cold it is. I had to find a website
to convert it from F to C and figure out what it means.

Now if you live in such a cold country and depend ONLY on grid electricity
and no backup source of heat, like fumeless gas heater or whatever, you are
candidate for a Darwin. A 3-day backup (or more) should be part of standard
household equipment.

Technical question:
In a well insulated house, at +18 C inside and -40 C outside. If the heater
stops (blackout...), how long does it take to descend down to freezing temp
of 0 C? Alternatively, what is the temperature after 5 hours?