Woo-Woo Why are there countless attempts to make magnets power generators..

[Moha99]

This is just rephrasing what others have already said, but maybe you can imagine this, or even set up an experiment based on this.

Let's think of a wheel with one magnet on it's rim, N pole facing outwards. And a fixed magnet mounted just outside the diameter of the wheel with the N pole facing towarwd the wheel. When the wheel is rotating and the magnet on the wheel is just past the fixed magnet, a replusive force will speed up the wheel. But now think abouut what happens as the wheel has gone most of the way around and the magnet on the wheel is approaching the fixed magnet. They repel and it slows the wheel down. Set this up, and give the wheel a spin by hand. You will see the wheel slow down and then speed up again each time the two magets pass. But no energy is being transferred to the wheel in total, it is put is during one phase then the same amount taken out in the next phase.

The next thing the clever inventor thinks of is "what if I move the magnet away from the wheel as the magnet on the wheel approaches and put it back right after it passes?" Now we are transferring energy to the wheel and not taking as much energy out of the wheel, so it should go faster and faster! An he is correct, that is exactly what it will do! But each time you pull the magnet away or push it back it is resisting this movement and you are putting energy into the system by pushing against this force. Remember Work = force times distance.

Now imagine that the fixed magnet is actually an electromagnet. And you put a switch that is tripped on for a second just as the two magnts pass. Give the wheel a spin and watch it speed up, with the magnet turning on just in time to repel on each revolution of the wheel. Voila! You have just created the electric motor. And guess what? The electric power that you have to put into the magnet is the same as the power that goes into the wheel! Except that it is not. Some of it is lost as heat from the current flowing through the wires. And some of it is lost in friction in the wheel.

Bob

*Now that's the best answer so far got to give you a hand on that one!

Still interesting if I work on this and end up building a motor
One thing I'd like to state is I'm not trying to build a what I've complained from the title.
I just want to understand what is backing up their statements what argument supports it?
and what im build is the exact same thing to see it clearly and then understand why it would fail, and finally would build a motor after I worked on that. This is all for my own understanding not to oppose anyone or any"thing".

Thanks BobK and everyone for you're inputs!

 

[Moha99]

Well, I think you have elegantly answered the question that is the title of this thread.

hahaha I guess I have.

So far understanding mind confusing things about force and energy which sometimes have a similarity but not the same a load of headache lol.

 

[(*steve*)]

You need to correctly understand Force, Field, Work, and Energy, and how they relate to each other.

 

[Moha99]

You need to correctly understand Force, Field, Work, and Energy, and how they relate to each other.

Yea, I've been doing that for the last hour or so... Thanks Steve!

 

[Moha99]

Wow. After almost a year... Looking back I can certainly say I've changed my perspective... And certainly became more "aware" of what I'm talking about.

I might start to reply to each post accurately this time.
And see what would happen.
So... I guess I'll revive this thread.

 

[Moha99]

Don't you all worry.
I won't revive it with nonsense but rather with convincing logical points.

 

[(*steve*)]

Don't you all worry.
I won't revive it with nonsense but rather with convincing logical points.

But make no claims that you do not also have your own experimental evidence to support.

Logical arguments don't fly without evidence.

 

[Moha99]

But make no claims that you do not also have your own experimental evidence to support.

Logical arguments don't fly without evidence.

Of course!
That goes without saying!

 

[Moha99]

Well,

So far what I came out with from the "concept" of magnets and this whole idea of free-energy and what not...

Is
1. The laws of conservation + thermodynamics do apply in all system(I have to admit I've tried multiple of concepts but thankfully without losing much money! Wish I heard what you said back then Steve!)
2. Magnet we're said can't do work, well the rightful statement is that magnet "BY" themselves can't do work. That I agree with 100%, its just like a barrel of oil, buy its own can't do anything, but adding a little bit of fire... things tend to be wild!
3. Energy is not a thing that we can't taste,feel,touch, energy is a mathematical measurement and physical explanation for work being done by a system.
Energy is not a thing, we can feel,taste,touch,smell,see... Energy is just the measurement of the amount of force being applied withing a distance(Simply putted).

Well, all of that learned in a year... But gained many skills and ideas in Physics.

 

[davenn]

3. Energy is not a thing that we can't taste,feel,touch, energy is a mathematical measurement and physical explanation for work being done by a system.
Energy is not a thing, we can feel,taste,touch,smell,see... Energy is just the measurement of the amount of force being applied withing a distance(Simply putted).

No thats incorrect.

Mass = energy

you ned to review those last 2 statements you made and define force and energy and mass

Dave

 

[Moha99]

3. Energy is not a thing that we can taste,feel,touch, energy is a mathematical measurement and physical explanation for work being done by a system(simplest explanation).

Edited.

 

[Moha99]

No thats incorrect.

Mass = energy

you ned to review those last 2 statements you made and define force and energy and mass

Dave

E = mc2

Does not fully explains what energy is.
I toke that into account while studying the subject.
But what's your simplified version that describes what energy is Dave?

 

[BobK]

Energy is the ability to do work. Work is force * distance.

Bob

 

[Moha99]

Energy is the ability to do work. Work is force * distance.

Bob

Simply put.
Can you go beyond that?
I would've written that down in fact I was.
But I refused because that wouldn't explain energy fully. I knew that law, but I literally thought energy can be something that is physical...

 

[(*steve*)]

Alternatively it is the power dissipated multiplied by the time it is dissipated.

P * t (and of course Power can be calculated in many ways)

It all comes down to -- Can it be measured in Joules? If the answer is Yes, it's energy.

edit: it's nothing physical

edit2: well it can be physical, and that's where e=mc^2 comes in. But you need a MASSIVE amounts of energy for this to be significant

 

[Moha99]

Or couldn't we just say anything that moves has energy?
Motion is simply Kinetic Energy
KE = Fd = W = E

 

[Moha99]

Alternatively it is the power dissipated multiplied by the time it is dissipated.

P * t (and of course Power can be calculated in many ways)

It all comes down to -- Can it be measured in Joules? If the answer is Yes, it's energy.

edit: it's nothing physical

edit2: well it can be physical, and that's where e=mc^2 comes in. But you need a MASSIVE amounts of energy for this to be significant

Well I just know the basics of that law.
I need to study it more... But I'll leave that for later

 

[TbirdMan]

This thread reminded me of a meme:

people attribute supernatural properties to that which they do not understand.

 

[(*steve*)]

Or couldn't we just say anything that moves has energy?
Motion is simply Kinetic Energy
KE = Fd = W = E

We could, but many things that don't move have energy too. Consider potential energy (as one very simple example)

It's best that you use existing definitions rather than come up with your own, since any difference between them and existing definitions is likely to be where you make your second mistake. (Your first mistake was trying to make your own definition)

 

[Moha99]

We could, but many things that don't move have energy too. Consider potential energy (as one very simple example)

It's best that you use existing definitions rather than come up with your own, since any difference between them and existing definitions is likely to be where you make your second mistake. (Your first mistake was trying to make your own definition)

Ow ok made sense.
I do.
But tend to make things simpler for others than complicated.
Motion = KE
The reason why I haven't taked about Potential energy is my understand that all physical objects in the universe can do work.
This is a huge claim I can explain more if needed.