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Weapon worries...

KE0KOY

Mar 7, 2017
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I was asking a question regarding a stun gun component and was told we wont help with weapons... and couldnt reply. This is my final post on this website.

The circuit is being used to create pulsed discharges through a coil for the purpose of inducing radiation in underground powerlines to locate cable faults with an am reciever. Thanks for thinking inside the box amd closing the thread. Not all of us are violent people.
 

davenn

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Sep 5, 2009
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.the problem is we have absolutely no idea what a person is going to use it for
and a bigger problem is if someone doing a google search for high voltage weapons comes across the
and there in full is something that can be used as a weapon even if that wasn't the original posters plan


that's the two main reasons why such topics are banned on pretty much ALL FORUMS on the net
 

Alec_t

Jul 7, 2015
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The circuit is being used to create pulsed discharges through a coil for the purpose of inducing radiation in underground powerlines to locate cable faults with an am reciever.
Wouldn't there be a risk that the high voltage could actually cause cable faults by dielectric breakdown?
 

KE0KOY

Mar 7, 2017
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There are no physical connections to the underground powerline, just electromagnetically induced currents, and it is impossible for such a small induced current to cause a fault in say.. 6 awg line. As for the google search concerns, i am led to believe this forum is based in north korea, russia, or some other extremely communist area for the admins to believe that they would be held responsible for actions based on information obtained herein. Morals are one thing, but fear of prosecution is silly. It is not illegal to learn and knowledge does not constitute intent - just ask youtube or any of the forums discussing the manufacture of methamphetamine and explosives.

But, this is not my forum and i must therefore respect your decisions. Thanks for the input.
KE0KOY Brandon
 

duke37

Jan 9, 2011
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I have made a medium wave generator (CMOS 4093) driven by a little PP3 battery. I have used this to trace cables in a house and underground outside to a shed. Why do you need such high voltages?

Pulses will have little energy at any one frequency but a much lower continuous power at one frequency will be easier to detect. See Fourier transform,
 

davenn

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As for the google search concerns, i am led to believe this forum is based in north korea, russia, or some other extremely communist area for the admins to believe that they would be held responsible for actions based on information obtained herein.

well shows you how wrong you can be

Morals are one thing, but fear of prosecution is silly.

no it's not --- it's a real problem


just ask youtube or any of the forums discussing the manufacture of methamphetamine and explosives.


well if there are illicit forums doing that ... good for them ... they will probably get caught one day
we are no an illicit forum and nor are most of the other electronics / physics forums
 

KE0KOY

Mar 7, 2017
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The reasoning for the high voltage pulse was so i could wrap a wire around the cable under test a few times and induce a voltage in it without a physical connection to the line itself (hence no protection filter). I have already sucessfully tested this with crude equipment. I agree that there are better methods like connecting an rf signal of known frequency directly to the wire and using my picoscope with a sniffer coil to do the detecting. My issue with that is the added complexity and need to carry more equipment. Another issue I have with a clean radio signal involves theories of transmission lines such as mutual coupling to the conductor next to it masking the fault in the first wire or the possability of resonance creating a high feedpoint impedance preventing a signal from even entering the line. A very dirty pulsed signal and a handheld am reciever with a bypassed band filter gets the job done for mere dollars and allows me to operate the transmitter and reciever on a pair of AA batteries. An mf oscillator sounds like fun but getting the dB right on both ends so i dont detect it a mile away is another challenge i dont wish to deal with. I think innefficiency and crudeness are allies on this project. Your thoughts???
 

duke37

Jan 9, 2011
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You would not detect my oscillator a mile (1.6km) away, it is only powered by a PP3 battery and installed inside a 35mm plastic film can. Also, it will only upset those tuned to that particular frequency, your dirty pulses could affect many people.

The cost of the oscillator should not exceed $2 and the receiver is just a portable transistor radio.
Your point about coupling to close cables is valid. I tried to find the layout of kitchen ceiling lights and got signals all over the place. I was looking for the 12V transformer.
 

KE0KOY

Mar 7, 2017
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I agree that a dirty signal would affect many people, but unlike lightning (having a strong 1mhz component), a dc discharge into an induction coil wrapped around the wire in question should not create harmful interferecne unless there was a tuned circuit to ring. And in that case (as my coil might be) would ring on one frequency only plus harmonics. So, short of interfering with the reception of gaussian background noise (static at the reciever which is my detection scheme) at an audible rate corresponding to the hv discharge rate via reciever desensitization, i highly doubt this would interfere with anyone moreso than your film canister signal generator. Perhaps i am wrong. I do like the device you mentioned and am interested in the schematic if you care to share it. Ive never been a fan of high voltage anyhow...
 

Harald Kapp

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The reasoning for the high voltage pulse was so i could wrap a wire around the cable under test a few times and induce a voltage in it without a physical connection to the line itself (
You don't need a high voltage for that. Induction is current driven, so use a higher current or more turns on your coil to achieve the desired induction at a lower voltage.
 

KE0KOY

Mar 7, 2017
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You don't need a high voltage for that. Induction is current driven, so use a higher current or more turns on your coil to achieve the desired induction at a lower voltage.
I know its current driven which is why i thought to go with the discharge of a capacitor. Having the voltage high allows the dielectric breakdown of air to act as my switch and eliminates the need for scr's, high power transistors, or burnt relay points. I dont have scr's handy without ordering them so i was improvising. The ideal solution probably would be a PUT based oscillator and an scr tho...
 

duke37

Jan 9, 2011
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KE0KOY wanted details of my little oscillator.
The frequency is calculated to be 2.7/(RxC)
It outputs 157kHz, 120Hz and modulation of the two.
You may not want the low frequency RF on long wave. I often use harmonics on medium wave.
I did not make a note of the component values, you can calculate what you want. There is a 10μF capacitor on the 9V inputgenny.JPG genny.JPG
 

Audioguru

Sep 24, 2016
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The schematic is WRONG. It shows ordinary CD4011 NAND gates that will not oscillate in that circuit, not CD4093 Schmitt Trigger NAND gates
 

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BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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Yes, but he did not draw the little hysteresis loop inside each NAND gate.

Bob
 

AnalogKid

Jun 10, 2015
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I saw that, but is that an actual drafting/symbol requirement? I added it to gates and inverters in my libraries, but the original symbols did not have it. Also, I've seen various flavors of the 7414 on drawings from some big name MIL contractors, and they rarely have it.

ak
 

duke37

Jan 9, 2011
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I forget many things these days.
I did remember to have my tea.:)

I wonder whether the 4011 would run in this circuit. If it does, then it will go like a bat out of hell because of the very low hysteresis. If it does not oscillate, what would be the static state?
 

AnalogKid

Jun 10, 2015
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Last time I saw this, the output was a sine wave (or distorted triangle wave) at about 50% of Vcc p-p.

ak
 

Audioguru

Sep 24, 2016
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I wonder whether the 4011 would run in this circuit. If it does, then it will go like a bat out of hell because of the very low hysteresis. If it does not oscillate, what would be the static state?
No, an ordinary CD4011 will not oscillate in this circuit because it has NO hysteresis. Its output would simply stay at about half the supply voltage due to the negative feedback provided by the resistor.
Here are Cmos oscillators (squarewave outputs):
 

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