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WANTED: 50hp Phase Converters - - - Tax Deductible - - EAGLE SCOUT Gov't Service Project

Hello,
First of all let me take this opportunity to thank all of you who
by virtue of reading this line have taken time out of your busy lives
in order to do so. I thank you profusely. I am working towards
achieving the highest rank and honor of scouting, by becoming an Eagle
Scout through completing a project as part of the Boy Scouts of America
program.

My project is rather complex in nature and by virtue of this fact
has been difficult to accomplish, with forecasted expenses the
government gave us that come in well over $50,000. For my project we
are going to take two Cold War era civil defense sirens and install
them in a small rural community in Arizona north of Phoenix called Mesa
Del Caballo which is near Payson Arizona, just for a reference point
for anyone who is actually from Arizona. This is a small mountain
community surrounded by the forest. Arizona has been going through a
massive drought over the past years, and as a result, combined with the
disastrous effects of the devastating bark beetle, our forests have
been highly susceptible as of late to pernicious wild fires. My goal is
to set up these two sirens in this community, one on one end, one on
the other, such that if there ever were a forest fire, or other
disaster which required a quick evacuation, the entire town could be
alerted via these sirens which would span all distance and language
barriers.

The government has been extraordinarily helpful to my project so
far by letting us borrow two civil defense sirens each valued at
roughly $25,000. Just to clear up a misconception we can only borrow
the sirens per regulations that were set up before the Cold War when
the sirens were originally installed throughout most of the greater
Phoenix Arizona area. The sirens we are "borrowing" for the project
should never need to be returned, it was just part of the original
contract in case of an extreme unpredictable emergency.

The problem we have run into is that we now have two Cold War era
civil defense sirens, but we don't have the money required to install
them. The representative from the Arizona Government estimated the
actual installation to be somewhere around $75,000. Our estimates upon
further investigation show it to be a smaller figure, but nevertheless
still a massively large amount. The two parts we stand in need of right
now are two 220 volt 50hp phase converters to go from 1 phase to 3
phase. These would be tax deductible, and we can provide proof of their
purpose for this project upon request. We are looking for a spare 50hp
phase converter that can be donated to our project. It does not need to
be new, used or surplus is absolutely fine. The exact specifications of
the civil defense siren are below:

We are starting off with a 220 volt, 200 amp, 1 phase line.
The siren we seek to power has three separate motors.
Motor 1 is a 7hp
Motor 2 is a 4.5hp
Motor 3 is a 1.5hp
RLA is 89amps, 220 volt, 3 phase

I was told by a specialist per these specifications that we needed
a 50hp phase converter. If anyone has a spare they can donate or knows
of a possibility for a donation, or can point us in the right
direction, or has any other helpful information for the project we
would deeply appreciate every little thing we can get at this point!
Thank you for your time in reading this letter. I deeply appreciate it.
In case my email address is blocked as I have begun to notice that many
usenet services do, I will spell it out here. It is: jkeagle13 at aol
dot com

Thank you!
 
J

James Meyer

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was told by a specialist per these specifications that we needed
a 50hp phase converter. If anyone has a spare they can donate or knows
of a possibility for a donation, or can point us in the right
direction, or has any other helpful information for the project we
would deeply appreciate every little thing we can get at this point!

---- assuming that the original poster will come back to read replies ---

The government should have plenty of surplus mobile generators
available. You know, the ones that have diesel engines and can be towed around
behind a big truck. I'll bet you could arrange to "borrow" one of those with
suitable output power specifications to allow you to connect directly to your
sirens for free.

Jim
 
M

Marty

Jan 1, 1970
0
A 10hp phase converter should be more than enough. I have a 7.5hp motor on
my planer and it starts just fine with a 10hp unit. Also, each motor you
have in the circuit running contributes to the total rating.

You should be able to buy a 10hp unit for just a couple hundred if you do it
yourself. Get a pre-made panel for $250 and get a used motor for about
$100.
 
G

Glen Walpert

Jan 1, 1970
0
The problem we have run into is that we now have two Cold War era
civil defense sirens, but we don't have the money required to install
them. The representative from the Arizona Government estimated the
actual installation to be somewhere around $75,000. Our estimates upon
further investigation show it to be a smaller figure, but nevertheless
still a massively large amount. The two parts we stand in need of right
now are two 220 volt 50hp phase converters to go from 1 phase to 3
phase. These would be tax deductible, and we can provide proof of their
purpose for this project upon request. We are looking for a spare 50hp
phase converter that can be donated to our project. It does not need to
be new, used or surplus is absolutely fine. The exact specifications of
the civil defense siren are below:

We are starting off with a 220 volt, 200 amp, 1 phase line.
The siren we seek to power has three separate motors.
Motor 1 is a 7hp
Motor 2 is a 4.5hp
Motor 3 is a 1.5hp
RLA is 89amps, 220 volt, 3 phase

I was told by a specialist per these specifications that we needed
a 50hp phase converter. If anyone has a spare they can donate or knows
of a possibility for a donation, or can point us in the right
direction, or has any other helpful information for the project we
would deeply appreciate every little thing we can get at this point!
Thank you for your time in reading this letter. I deeply appreciate it.
In case my email address is blocked as I have begun to notice that many
usenet services do, I will spell it out here. It is: jkeagle13 at aol
dot com

Thank you!

I would question the assertion that you need a 50hp converter for this
application, especially if you can add a couple of time delay relays
to the controller so that the motors start one at a time. The
required size of the rotary converter can also be reduced by adding
phase correction capacitors to the larger load motors. The actual
size of the converter required depends partly on how much safety
factor the siren designers built in; if the actual mechanical load is
over 80% of the motor rating including the service factor, then a
seemingly oversized converter may really be required. Your local
specialist may have some information on this.

You can get a lot of good information about rotary phase converters
from the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup - a lot of the regulars
there use them for their machine tools and some of them have plans
posted in an archive somewhere which they will no doubt refer you to
if you inquire there, or you could find them with a search for "rotary
phase converter" in the newsgroup archives on google groups. I use
the design posted by Fitch (IIRC) and it works well even though I only
use a 5hp converter for a 5hp lathe motor (from which I only require
about 3hp output power, your application is different).

Nice project, good luck with it.

Glen
 
C

carl mciver

Jan 1, 1970
0
Why not look for VFD's on ebay? Variable frequency drives are capable
of doing the same thing, taking two phases and turning them into three.
Being solid state, they have no moving parts, will not rust out, and are
perfectly capable of doing what you need. The reliability in a system that
will see rare usage I assume is pretty attractive. Take up a whole lot
less space, wiring, and so forth, also. Any competent reliable electrical
contractor will be able to wire one up, and if you talked nicely enough,
he'll liably do it for free.
Even if you don't pay more in up-front costs, shipping will for sure be
a whole lot less!

| Hello,
| First of all let me take this opportunity to thank all of you who
| by virtue of reading this line have taken time out of your busy lives
| in order to do so. I thank you profusely. I am working towards
| achieving the highest rank and honor of scouting, by becoming an Eagle
| Scout through completing a project as part of the Boy Scouts of America
| program.
|
| My project is rather complex in nature and by virtue of this fact
| has been difficult to accomplish, with forecasted expenses the
| government gave us that come in well over $50,000. For my project we
| are going to take two Cold War era civil defense sirens and install
| them in a small rural community in Arizona north of Phoenix called Mesa
| Del Caballo which is near Payson Arizona, just for a reference point
| for anyone who is actually from Arizona. This is a small mountain
| community surrounded by the forest. Arizona has been going through a
| massive drought over the past years, and as a result, combined with the
| disastrous effects of the devastating bark beetle, our forests have
| been highly susceptible as of late to pernicious wild fires. My goal is
| to set up these two sirens in this community, one on one end, one on
| the other, such that if there ever were a forest fire, or other
| disaster which required a quick evacuation, the entire town could be
| alerted via these sirens which would span all distance and language
| barriers.
|
| The government has been extraordinarily helpful to my project so
| far by letting us borrow two civil defense sirens each valued at
| roughly $25,000. Just to clear up a misconception we can only borrow
| the sirens per regulations that were set up before the Cold War when
| the sirens were originally installed throughout most of the greater
| Phoenix Arizona area. The sirens we are "borrowing" for the project
| should never need to be returned, it was just part of the original
| contract in case of an extreme unpredictable emergency.
|
| The problem we have run into is that we now have two Cold War era
| civil defense sirens, but we don't have the money required to install
| them. The representative from the Arizona Government estimated the
| actual installation to be somewhere around $75,000. Our estimates upon
| further investigation show it to be a smaller figure, but nevertheless
| still a massively large amount. The two parts we stand in need of right
| now are two 220 volt 50hp phase converters to go from 1 phase to 3
| phase. These would be tax deductible, and we can provide proof of their
| purpose for this project upon request. We are looking for a spare 50hp
| phase converter that can be donated to our project. It does not need to
| be new, used or surplus is absolutely fine. The exact specifications of
| the civil defense siren are below:
|
| We are starting off with a 220 volt, 200 amp, 1 phase line.
| The siren we seek to power has three separate motors.
| Motor 1 is a 7hp
| Motor 2 is a 4.5hp
| Motor 3 is a 1.5hp
| RLA is 89amps, 220 volt, 3 phase
|
| I was told by a specialist per these specifications that we needed
| a 50hp phase converter. If anyone has a spare they can donate or knows
| of a possibility for a donation, or can point us in the right
| direction, or has any other helpful information for the project we
| would deeply appreciate every little thing we can get at this point!
| Thank you for your time in reading this letter. I deeply appreciate it.
| In case my email address is blocked as I have begun to notice that many
| usenet services do, I will spell it out here. It is: jkeagle13 at aol
| dot com
|
| Thank you!
|
 
M

Martin H. Eastburn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello,
First of all let me take this opportunity to thank all of you who
by virtue of reading this line have taken time out of your busy lives
in order to do so. I thank you profusely. I am working towards
achieving the highest rank and honor of scouting, by becoming an Eagle
Scout through completing a project as part of the Boy Scouts of America
program.

My project is rather complex in nature and by virtue of this fact
has been difficult to accomplish, with forecasted expenses the
government gave us that come in well over $50,000. For my project we
are going to take two Cold War era civil defense sirens and install
them in a small rural community in Arizona north of Phoenix called Mesa
Del Caballo which is near Payson Arizona, just for a reference point
for anyone who is actually from Arizona. This is a small mountain
community surrounded by the forest. Arizona has been going through a
massive drought over the past years, and as a result, combined with the
disastrous effects of the devastating bark beetle, our forests have
been highly susceptible as of late to pernicious wild fires. My goal is
to set up these two sirens in this community, one on one end, one on
the other, such that if there ever were a forest fire, or other
disaster which required a quick evacuation, the entire town could be
alerted via these sirens which would span all distance and language
barriers.

The government has been extraordinarily helpful to my project so
far by letting us borrow two civil defense sirens each valued at
roughly $25,000. Just to clear up a misconception we can only borrow
the sirens per regulations that were set up before the Cold War when
the sirens were originally installed throughout most of the greater
Phoenix Arizona area. The sirens we are "borrowing" for the project
should never need to be returned, it was just part of the original
contract in case of an extreme unpredictable emergency.

The problem we have run into is that we now have two Cold War era
civil defense sirens, but we don't have the money required to install
them. The representative from the Arizona Government estimated the
actual installation to be somewhere around $75,000. Our estimates upon
further investigation show it to be a smaller figure, but nevertheless
still a massively large amount. The two parts we stand in need of right
now are two 220 volt 50hp phase converters to go from 1 phase to 3
phase. These would be tax deductible, and we can provide proof of their
purpose for this project upon request. We are looking for a spare 50hp
phase converter that can be donated to our project. It does not need to
be new, used or surplus is absolutely fine. The exact specifications of
the civil defense siren are below:

We are starting off with a 220 volt, 200 amp, 1 phase line.
The siren we seek to power has three separate motors.
Motor 1 is a 7hp
Motor 2 is a 4.5hp
Motor 3 is a 1.5hp
RLA is 89amps, 220 volt, 3 phase

I was told by a specialist per these specifications that we needed
a 50hp phase converter. If anyone has a spare they can donate or knows
of a possibility for a donation, or can point us in the right
direction, or has any other helpful information for the project we
would deeply appreciate every little thing we can get at this point!
Thank you for your time in reading this letter. I deeply appreciate it.
In case my email address is blocked as I have begun to notice that many
usenet services do, I will spell it out here. It is: jkeagle13 at aol
dot com

Thank you!
Are you connected to a University or other group ?

Can you not just use a transformer ? Most of us don't have them but
Universities and Power companies do. Maybe you can get a consultant
to the group from the local power company.

Martin
 
J

Jerry Martes

Jan 1, 1970
0
JKeagle

I had expected to read a response from you concerning your more exact
needs regarding this "phase converter". Your project interests me, but it is
unclear if you are hoping for a donation, or if you have interest in
developing a power source for the sirens.
I'm pretty sure you could power your sirens with a much smaller rotary
converter. It could be a real learning project for some electrically
inclined young scout. I'd expect a little (5 HP) idler at each siren could
make all the sound you'd ever need.
If this *is* a real project where only the "results" (siren sounds) is the
goal, and no *overseeing specification writing group* of people need to be
satisfied, I'd voluntere my time and materials to a task like this. I'd
even bring some parts.

I'd sure like to hear more about what your 'constraints" are.

Jerry (who lives about a day's drive away from Payson and
would be willing to drive there)
 
We are starting off with a 220 volt, 200 amp, 1 phase line.
The siren we seek to power has three separate motors.
Motor 1 is a 7hp
Motor 2 is a 4.5hp
Motor 3 is a 1.5hp
RLA is 89amps, 220 volt, 3 phase
I don't know where you came up with 50hp requirement. The motors
themselves only add to 13hp. FOS of 2 only gives you 26 hp. There are
other mitigating factors, but 50hp seems extraordinally over sized.

In any case, is it possible to change the motors out? None of these
are too big to not be used as single phase motors. The biggest factor
would be the mounting type. If you weren't so far away, I could
probably give you at least one of each size, but shipping from my
location would be cheaper to go buy a new one or close to it.

JW
 
Y

YD

Jan 1, 1970
0
JKeagle

I had expected to read a response from you concerning your more exact
needs regarding this "phase converter". Your project interests me, but it is
unclear if you are hoping for a donation, or if you have interest in
developing a power source for the sirens.
I'm pretty sure you could power your sirens with a much smaller rotary
converter. It could be a real learning project for some electrically
inclined young scout. I'd expect a little (5 HP) idler at each siren could
make all the sound you'd ever need.
If this *is* a real project where only the "results" (siren sounds) is the
goal, and no *overseeing specification writing group* of people need to be
satisfied, I'd voluntere my time and materials to a task like this. I'd
even bring some parts.

I'd sure like to hear more about what your 'constraints" are.

Jerry (who lives about a day's drive away from Payson and
would be willing to drive there)

Rotary converters are sooo 60's. Siemens, GE, Allen-Bradley among
others make solid state motordrives of all types and power ratings.
Basically they rectify the incoming power and reconvert the DC to
variable voltage and frequency AC (user defined). This means many
models accept being powered by single phase while driving a
three-phase motor.

- YD.
 
O

Old Nick

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:06:57 -0300, YD <[email protected]> vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email
 
O

Old Nick

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 31 Dec 2004 07:15:16 -0800, [email protected] vaguely proposed a
theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

a 7 HP single phase motor will not be quick or easy to source at a
cheap price IME. Even 5Hp is unusual.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] wrote...
... The two parts we stand in need of right now are two 220
volt 50hp phase converters to go from 1 phase to 3 phase. ...

Are you *sure* you can't get your local electric company to
provide the three-phase power? They should consider this a
mandatory community service, part of their charter, especially
considering the importance of protecting the citizenry from
overwhelming death by fire. Perhaps the threat of an article
or two in the local paper will persuade them to meet their
obligations at no extra cost? And if they don't agree, then
run those articles, develop some buzz, and ask them again.
 
They are all over. It just depends on who you ask. Being in Phoenix
area, I don't know all of the farming requirements, but I know up here,
a 5hp motor is pretty common for an auger motor. A 7.5 would be an
average size roller mill motor.

If he needs 3450 rpm motors, find a dairy industry. Nearly all of
their pumps and vacuum motors are run at 3450. Given the area he is
in, I know there is a lot of irrigation done, so I would expect there
are some very large motors running some of that. If it was me, I would
hit up some of the local ag industry suppliers.

A new one would be expensive, but if this project is as noble as he
presents, it wouldn't seem to be that hard to get a few businesses to
donate one.
 
N

Nicholas O. Lindan

Jan 1, 1970
0
So are Civil Defense sirens.

"If you see a bright flash immediately duck down and cover yourself
with whatever is at hand. Jim and Judy are shown in this film using
their picnic blanket for thermal radiation flash protection. _They_
didn't let a nuclear blast interfere with their outdoor eating
enjoyment."
 
N

Nicholas O. Lindan

Jan 1, 1970
0
They are all over. It just depends on who you ask.

Get some old junker motors and learn the art of motor
rebuilding.
 
M

MSHAWO944

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you can locate a couple of 75 HP 3ph motors, ( maybe a local rewind shop )
you can build a rather inexpensive rotary phase inverter. If you come across
some motors, e-mail me and I will gladly send you some schematics. You'll only
need some elecrolytic capacitors, wire, and a contactor for on off control. By
the way my son received his Eagle Rank this year. Troop #358 San Antonio, Tx
 
K

keith

Jan 1, 1970
0
So are Civil Defense sirens.

No they are *not*! In fact they put them in in the 80's (well after I
left the region).
"If you see a bright flash immediately duck down and cover yourself
with whatever is at hand. Jim and Judy are shown in this film using
their picnic blanket for thermal radiation flash protection. _They_
didn't let a nuclear blast interfere with their outdoor eating
enjoyment."

In the midwest, if you hear a CD siren you'd better find a place to hide
your sorry ass. There is a tornado right on it! They only fire 'em up if
it's on the ground and confirmed, so you'd better know what to do before
you hear it.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
No they are *not*! In fact they put them in in the 80's (well after I
left the region).

place your head firmly between your knees, and kiss your ass good-bye."

Cheers!
Rich
 
Hi,
Thanks again for your replies. I am afraid that I am a little confused
on how we can use anything less than a 25hp phase converter. I am no
expert here, so I am just trying to understand it myself. Just simply
from browsing the internet, and eBay, it appears to me that the
specialist I called was correct in the fact that it needed to be a very
large phase converter. The sirens have a RLA of 89amps, and a mandatory
government safety, has to exist regulation of the phase converter being
able to produce 100amps.

So I am looking for a phase converter to produce 100amps.

A chart I found at the following link states that the phase converter
must be at least a 25hp motor in order to generate 100amps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41952&item=3863629765&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

So accounting this chart, can I use a smaller motor, like a 7.5hp
motor, and still generate 100amps?

Also, I am getting ready to write a press release in order to gain some
media attention and community support for my project. I have been
persuing over the last several months trying to get APS involved, and
my efforts so far have been in vain. The only returned call from APS
out of many many messages, 6 or 7, possibly more that I have left for
APS was simply to say I had the wrong person, which new person, many
phone messages later, still won't return my calls. So the press release
has many functions. A: Simply to inform the public of my project. B: To
see if someone who reads it knows where there is an unused surplus
phase converter at an old farm or machine shop or something, and C: To
show everyone, specifically at this point APS that I am serious, and
see if a newspaper article might help them jump on the project a little
bit quicker. So I know the technical details of how to circulate a
press release, etc., thanks to my wonderful Eagle Scout Advisor, but I
am just curious on if anyone has any suggestions on what to say or how
to phrase it besides the base explanation of my project. Should we
leave it at simply that, an explanation of the project? Or should we
try and draw public support and donations? Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated.

Thank you everyone for your time in this matter.
Jkeagle13 (at) aol (dot) com
 
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