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Trumps solar wall, forget politics we should just build the thing

32Vwasbetteronboats

Feb 18, 2017
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A wall would help but at what cost?

I believe the focus need to be on employers that illegally hire people. It's easy enough to verify the books, but as long as employers are willing to pay people cash under the table, illegals will come and seek out these jobs.

Electronic transactions may be mandatory in the future.

Electronic transactions mandatory.... and no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name. http://biblehub.com/revelation/13-17.htm

Again with the police state and big brother stuff instead of concrete and steel !

If I start a business I don't want anymore damn paperwork and hassles cause the system needs to police my hiring. More in taxes to pay for hassling businesses and more expensive stuff cause businesses have the extra expense of more hassles no thanks.

This politics stuff is tough ! Why cant the whole world just agree with me ?
 

(*steve*)

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Countries seem to demonize immigrants when jobs are scarce
This politics stuff is tough ! Why cant the whole world just agree with me ?

I see no problem with that.

Once you fall in line behind my thinking, I'll have no problem agreeing with you ;-)

Government has three functions: regulation, transfer of wealth, and the exercise of force. In all three, we would prefer it does the least possible, but if it doesn't perform these functions adequately, society suffers.

An interesting issue arises when people see the first two functions as an illegitimate form of the third.
 

32Vwasbetteronboats

Feb 18, 2017
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I did not say we should not try to keep illegals out. I said that the physical border wall won't do it.

The government (and this covers past administrations as well) is much more concerned with making people think they are doing something to solve a problem than they are with actually solving the problem. For example, the sham of searches at the airport. Every time it is tested, most of the weapons get through. How is that making us more secure?

Bob

Its not about making us secure, it never ever was.

Incrementalism is a process whereby society is slowly engineered and our rights and freedoms are slowly eroded over time so that we don't notice it's happening as we are led to believe change is necessary on only one item and this change is not related to other changes. In the short term the changes are almost imperceptible, but are nevertheless part of a long term campaign to normalize tyranny.

It was going well for them I guess they had not planned for the police brutality on YouTube phenomenon. That was a setback. Smart bunch those tyrants, when the mood became the people vs authoritarianism after they choked out the selling loose cigarettes guy in NY the TV convinced most people it was a racial problem. Divide and conquer age old tactic that works.

No its not a racial problem, its you A holes doing stuff like making cigarettes $14 a pack and choking people to death enforcing it.
 
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32Vwasbetteronboats

Feb 18, 2017
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Countries seem to demonize immigrants when jobs are scarce

I see no problem with that.

Once you fall in line behind my thinking, I'll have no problem agreeing with you ;-)

Government has three functions: regulation, transfer of wealth, and the exercise of force. In all three, we would prefer it does the least possible, but if it doesn't perform these functions adequately, society suffers.

An interesting issue arises when people see the first two functions as an illegitimate form of the third.

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

"when jobs are scarce"

I guess I will link to BullshitJobs I plagiarized so much of it already http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/

I don't buy into that anti capitalist stuff or much of the left vs right nonsense but that article explains our real problem like nothing else I have ever ever read.

"when jobs are scarce" shouldn't that be a good thing ? Isn't it a sign we are doing very well with efficiency ?

The more I think about I realize society has no future goals, what the hell is the end game ? WTF are we aiming for ?????

A effing utopia where mom and dad get 40 hour a week jobs, the state raises our children for "free" including free Ritalin Adderal and after school programs !!

Jobs and new I-phones every six months and eating at Apple Bees and TGI Fridays and strip malls to buy all the plastic useless shit you ever wanted !! Utpoia is so close people almost there we are almost there !!! I can smell the french frys already !
 

davenn

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"when jobs are scarce" shouldn't that be a good thing ? Isn't it a sign we are doing very well with efficiency ?

not necessarily ... it would more often mean that the financial climate doesn't allow for more companies to either start up or existing ones to
expand and take on more staff
 

32Vwasbetteronboats

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not necessarily ... it would more often mean that the financial climate doesn't allow for more companies to either start up or existing ones to
expand and take on more staff

I get it, I do but I am still stuck on the Idea that expansion of companies and more staff doesn't solve much of anything, if for example the telemarketing companies selling vehicle warranty scams expanded becuase the financial climate was favorable all it would do is waste resources wile producing absolutely nothing of value. Then more people need to work to support the activities of the people creating nothing of any value sucking up even more resources.

We would be better of if they all stayed home or flew a kite with there kids in the park instead of wearing out the roads and cars commuting sucking up gasoline and those offices wasting electricity. and paper and the trucks to bring the paper after they cut down trees to make that paper.

Each bullshitjob from bueracracy to telemarketing metastasizes into an epic waste.

I don't know, what the heck do you do outlaw useless activities? That's anti freedom and socialism is always a fail cause they can't bully everyone into cooperation and it makes everyone lazy.

I just like the solar wall cause maybe it could be a step closer to the free energy "utopia" I must have watched to much Star Trek or something. I have watched alot of Star Trek except deep space nine that was lame but Voyager was awesome just finished that.

Our society has no goals, what goals do we actually have ? "Win the drug war" everything would just be beyond perfection if no one got high and "create jobs" and lots of french fries and good schools to drug our children if they won't sit still. I need to quit watching the news, those people are tripping.
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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Government has three functions: regulation, transfer of wealth, and the exercise of force.
I disagree.
Government's only legitimate role is to protect individual rights to life, liberty and property.
Government has no right taking from one person and giving it to another in order to create jobs. The burden is merely shifted and there is no economic gain.
The government shouldn't interfere with the free market where it can regulate itself through supply and demand.
 

(*steve*)

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The government cannot perform any function if it can't raise the funds to do so. It must redirect private citizens funds to, say, fund the judicial system who's role is to protect the rights and liberty of the citizens.

Likewise, the exercise of force, be it by means of a military, police, judiciary (again), or penal institutions are only properly funded by a government.

Finally, the rules under which society managed itself are again the job of government.

We would not want to live in a state where religious bodies make the rules, where the judiciary and the police are funded by wealthy individuals, where the rights of citizens are determined by their religion, skin colour, wealth, or access to power, where your vote may have less power than your neighbour's.
 

Tha fios agaibh

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I agree, but those things are to the mutual benefit of all citizens. You said a governments role is "transfer of wealth" which implies taking wealth from one in order to give to another.
 

(*steve*)

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A government can't fund anything if it can't take wealth from someone and give it to someone else.
 
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AnalogKid

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Yes, the cost to secure 1,200 miles of our southern border is high but it also vital to our national security.
I disagree. Neither the government of Mexico, the drug cartels, nor the fruit pickers give a rats ass about a physical, financial, or political takeover of the United States government. In fact, they are desperate for our government to stay intact. Regardless of the blatant and bizarre misuse of the term, "national security" means a specific thing, and *nothing* coming in from Mexico affects it in any way. Besides, we are dismantling our own government without any outside help.

ak
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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where the rights of citizens are determined by their religion, skin colour, wealth, or access to power, where your vote may have less power than your neighbour's
Seeing as I live in such a country, I agree wholeheartedly.

Bob
 

32Vwasbetteronboats

Feb 18, 2017
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Hi I am a conservative, when I am not talking about liberty and the constitution wile standing in front of flags and red white and blue stuff I am busy making America a mass incarceration police state.

Hi I am a liberal, when I am not talking about gun control to save children I am busy helping to fund abortions.

How do people actually buy into these 2 "ideologies" LOL
 
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32Vwasbetteronboats

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Sunrun Inc. and Vivint Solar Inc., the two largest independent U.S. rooftop panel installers, have embarked on their biggest rallies of the year since the president’s June 1 announcement. Sunrun is up 42 percent, closing Thursday at $7.27. Vivint has risen 86 percent, to $5.75. And SunPower Corp., the second-largest American panel manufacturer, has gained 19 percent, to $9.49.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ious-direction-since-trump-quit-paris-deal-up

I need to invest in these things, as an electricity nerd I think these stocks will continue to rise.
 

Tha fios agaibh

Aug 11, 2014
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I disagree. Neither the government of Mexico, the drug cartels, nor the fruit pickers give a rats ass about a physical, financial, or political takeover of the United States government. In fact, they are desperate for our government to stay intact. Regardless of the blatant and bizarre misuse of the term, "national security" means a specific thing, and *nothing* coming in from Mexico affects it in any way. Besides, we are dismantling our own government without any outside help.
ak
They may not give a rats ass about a take over but securing our borders is still vital.
Fruit pickers are not illegal, they are migrant workers who come and go seasonally. I have no problem with any immigrant doing so legally.
But, turning a blind eye to who's illegally spilling over a countries borders us just plain stupid.
Many violent criminals have fled their country searching for "opportunity" elsewhere. A country with welfare and other government benefits can not have open borders or eventually it will suffer an economic collapse.
I'm the first to complain about government overreach and the seeming police state many are seeking, but protecting our borders is a vital role of government as stipulated in the constitution.
 
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(*steve*)

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How do people actually buy into these 2 "ideologies" LOL

The only one I really have a problem with is the "mass incarceration police state", assuming this describes an unjust society.

The rest just fall under the "life and liberty" stuff.
 

(*steve*)

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Seeing as I live in such a country, I agree wholeheartedly.

Bob

Where do you live?

I don't know of any country which does this perfectly. It is worth noting that many countries are trying to move away from this position, so there are clearly those who don't think it's a good idea.
 

duke37

Jan 9, 2011
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The wall will be in the wrong place when the USA gives California and Texas back to Mexico.:D
 

(*steve*)

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The wall will be in the wrong place when the USA gives California and Texas back to Mexico.

Perhaps as a compromise they could put it around Texas?
 
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