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Thoughts on AutoTRAX PCB layout software?

J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
.
.
Ya know, I teach PCB layout to first year engineering students. I would
dearly LOVE to find a low end or "freebie" PCB package that they could
upgrade when they graduated and went pro. As it is, I struggle along with a
demo package out of an obsolete layout program that originated from a long
since defunct company (actually absorbed into a bloatware company) called
MicroCode Engineering.

If anybody ANYWHERE can point me to an easy to learn student oriented CHEAP
package that they can go pro with in a few years, I'd dearly love to hear
about it.

Jim

(And if anybody knows where Art Hatfield and company have relocated, I'd
like to hear about that too. That man was a genius in PCB program design.)

http://www.holophase.com/

Try talking to these people. Their full package is not all that
expensive, they may have something for you. I have used an earlier
version and it is pretty easy to use.
 
R

RST Engineering \(jw\)

Jan 1, 1970
0
,
,

You are kidding, right? A thousand dollars a station with 24 stations in
the classroom? Sorry, no cigar.

Jim
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
,
,

You are kidding, right?  A thousand dollars a station with 24 stations in
the classroom?  Sorry, no cigar.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
        --Henry Ford





- Show quoted text -

It goes down to $250 a seat, in volume.

Leon
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
http://www.holophase.com/

Try talking to these people.  Their full package is not all that
expensive, they may have something for you.  I have used an earlier
version and it is pretty easy to use.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just downloaded the demo and tried it. It's got a weird user
interface and crashed on me after a few minutes, when I autorouted a
schematic (the option was there so I thought I'd try it) and then
tried to undo the changes I had made. I don't think I'll be using it
instead of Pulsonix!

Leon
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, the user interface is different.  How much per seat does Pulsonix
cost?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Starts at about $3,000, IIRC.

Leon
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just downloaded the demo and tried it. It's got a weird user
interface and crashed on me after a few minutes, when I autorouted a
schematic (the option was there so I thought I'd try it) and then
tried to undo the changes I had made. I don't think I'll be using it
instead of Pulsonix!

Leon

Yes, the user interface is different. How much per seat does Pulsonix
cost?
 
M

Mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
The software has been developed since around 1990 so it is a long way
down the road to doing what I want.
I wrote the software after trying to use other companies efforts.
A lot of features I found were missing on other packages, I was also
shocked at the number of crashes and holes in other packages.
Before anyone asks, no it is not DOS it is .net framework v3 now.

Hmm, did you once operate from Bradford?

If so I, or rather one of our departments was one of your customers
many years ago. The package was called something else though.

--
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
It goes down to $250 a seat, in volume.

For the a point of comparison, Agilent hands ADS (normally a "high five
digits" package) to universities for some "very low four digits," and Ansoft
does similar for HFSS. In the ADS case, that was something like 10 licenses,
whereas it was just one for HFSS.

Academic software licensing is weird...
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
OK and how much for a "typical" seat?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can't remember. Like most professional software you have to ask them
for a quotation. They don't put prices on their web site because they
vary such a lot between countries. The dollar going into free-fall
doesn't help with price information, either.

Leon
 
B

Brad Velander

Jan 1, 1970
0
Previously they posted it clearly on their website, it was there when I had
looked one day.
The fully blown unlimited version 'was' listed at approx. $8K USD a year or
more ago.

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander.


I can't remember. Like most professional software you have to ask them
for a quotation. They don't put prices on their web site because they
vary such a lot between countries. The dollar going into free-fall
doesn't help with price information, either.

Leon
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Brad Velander said:
Previously they posted it clearly on their website, it was there when I had
looked one day.

Indeed. I've asked them about it, and they say it's gone now basically due to
the U.S. dollar having dropped like a rock: They realistically can't go and,
say, double the U.S. prices, but with the dollar's falling value, they're
trying to discourage those outside the U.S. from buying from a U.S. vendor and
effectively getting it for, say, half price.

It's a little odd to suddenly be in a country that's kinda dropped into
"second world" status in some ways. :)
The fully blown unlimited version 'was' listed at approx. $8K USD a year or
more ago.

Full-blown schematic/PCB (including auto-router) is US$7250 node-locked,
although these days they have plenty of extra "cost" options (database
connectivity, chip packaging, SPICE, etc.) that can still increase the price
from there. It's US$4875 without the auto-router, which I think is
potentially the better deal: If you really want a good auto-router, you might
be better off applying the money saved to another standalone program, as the
Pulsonix auto-router falls into the "good if not great" category, IMO. (On
the other hand, Leon claims the Pulsonix auto-router is better than the very
inexpensive Eagle auto-router... I'm comparing it here more to the old Protel
"advanced" (gridless) auto-router, which I recall as being better than
Pulsonix's and -- at the time -- cheaper. But I do mainly RF/analog stuff
these days, and hence very seldom use an auto-router.)

If you're in the U.S. and e-mail their rep (www.tsi-reps.com) I imagine
they'll still send you the complete price sheet -- they did for me. (I won't
post the full list publicly out of respect for Pulsonix's wishes...)

---Joel
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Indeed.  I've asked them about it, and they say it's gone now basically due to
the U.S. dollar having dropped like a rock: They realistically can't go and,
say, double the U.S. prices, but with the dollar's falling value, they're
trying to discourage those outside the U.S. from buying from a U.S. vendorand
effectively getting it for, say, half price.

It's a little odd to suddenly be in a country that's kinda dropped into
"second world" status in some ways. :)


Full-blown schematic/PCB (including auto-router) is US$7250 node-locked,
although these days they have plenty of extra "cost" options (database
connectivity, chip packaging, SPICE, etc.) that can still increase the price
from there.  It's US$4875 without the auto-router, which I think is
potentially the better deal: If you really want a good auto-router, you might
be better off applying the money saved to another standalone program, as the
Pulsonix auto-router falls into the "good if not great" category, IMO.  (On
the other hand, Leon claims the Pulsonix auto-router is better than the very
inexpensive Eagle auto-router... I'm comparing it here more to the old Protel
"advanced" (gridless) auto-router, which I recall as being better than
Pulsonix's and -- at the time -- cheaper.  But I do mainly RF/analog stuff
these days, and hence very seldom use an auto-router.)

If you're in the U.S. and e-mail their rep (www.tsi-reps.com) I imagine
they'll still send you the complete price sheet -- they did for me.  (I won't
post the full list publicly out of respect for Pulsonix's wishes...)

---Joel

The Pulsonix autorouter is in fact Electra, and does a very good job.

Leon
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Leon,

"The Pulsonix autorouter is in fact Electra, and does a very good job."

In general I suppose that's true, although I've had some rather simple boards
where it does some rather brain-dead things (e.g., taking horribly circuitous
routes where there's a rather obvious path that's much more direct); I even
e-mailed an example to Pulsonix and asked if there was anything I could do to
"smarten it up," and they responded back with an acknowledgment that, yes, it
was acting a little brain-dead on my example file, but, no, they didn't know
of any tweaks to help much.

I never say the old Protel advanced auto-router do quite so bad. :)
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
For the a point of comparison, Agilent hands ADS (normally a "high five
digits" package) to universities for some "very low four digits," and Ansoft
does similar for HFSS. In the ADS case, that was something like 10 licenses,
whereas it was just one for HFSS.

Academic software licensing is weird...

It is called addict them when they are young.
 
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