Thoughts on AutoTRAX PCB layout software?

[Leon]

Hi Leon,




The standard gameplan in the U.S. then, would be to be handing out Easy-PC to
universities for free or almost free to get the students "hooked," making sure
they're aware that the "professional" version of the software is Pulsonix so
that's what they should be purchasing when they begin working professionally
and have some capital to blow.


Yeah, but if you're doing serious microwave work you're going to be using ADS,
Microwave Office, etc. anyway and then importing the Gerber output back into
Pulsonix as one complete "stamp."

---Joe

It's still very useful for a lot of users that don't need to get to
grips with those sort of packages, and are just designing a simple
circuit.

Leon

 

[Marra]

    Oh, common Marra -- just put some bloody screenshots up on your
web site to show people, at the very least, as to what your software
*looks* like!!!  If PCBCAD at least *looks* good, you'd sell ten times
more product (whether it functioned well is another matter entirely --
in fact, that's why most other companies have a thing called a
"demo").  For heaven's sake, you programmed an entire piece of complex
software; is it so damn hard to take some clear screenshots???  And,
as I said, people get REALLY turned off and worried if you cannot even
put up a presentable web site; these potential customers then, quite
sensibly, wonder just how your software will look, and function, if
they purchase it -- no matter how low the price.  Come on, this stuff
I'm saying is basic -- it's not marketing rocket science!!

-Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have updated the website and got rid of the obsolete products.
There are a few shots now.

 

[Marra]

It's still very useful for a lot of users that don't need to get to
grips with those sort of packages, and are just designing a simple
circuit.

Leon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some of these high flying packages are great and complete but when it
comes to a quick and dirty small PCB a cheaper package does the job
much quicker.
Some people that bought my software came from other vendors and
complained about packages being hard to understand and to get started
took a long time.

 

[Joel Koltner]

"Some of these high flying packages are great and complete but when it
comes to a quick and dirty small PCB a cheaper package does the job
much quicker."

Certainly true... I saw a guy do full-fledged PCBs with all the digital bits
included using Ansoft Designer... he said it was quite the pain-in-the-ass.
His deal was that he was working for some government-funded project, so
while they had gone through the (six month!) process to get $$$ Ansoft, he no
longer had (another six months!) to get a decent schematic capture/PCB layout
tool.

If your tool imprts Gerbers I'm sure he would have been quite interested in
your package, Marra.

Hmm... (looking at your web site...) I think you get the award as the only
eCAD vendor whose web site has a link to *discos.* Is that link to a friend's
web site? Or you just have fond recollections of boogie nights from years
past?

---Joel

 

[David L. Jones]

I have updated the website and got rid of the obsolete products.
There are a few shots now.

Well, at least that's a start.
Those resistors are horribly BIG.
Are there any real ground symbols?
Scrap the 3D viewer, what point is there in having something so
simplistic as that?
Why support so many resist layers?
I'd also suggest you get yourself a real web address.

Dave.

 

[billcalley]

I have updated the website and got rid of the obsolete products.
There are a few shots now.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Much better Marra. Now a person would have a definite idea as to
what he is getting. But as David J. said though, you may want to just
drop the 3D viewer -- it just doesn't work out. And if you ever
wanted to add a copper pour, along with the ability to drop vias
anywhere along that pour, your software could be a real contender
against the other lower-end schematic and layout packages. Good
stuff.

-Bill

 

[RST Engineering \(jw\)]

..
..
Ya know, I teach PCB layout to first year engineering students. I would
dearly LOVE to find a low end or "freebie" PCB package that they could
upgrade when they graduated and went pro. As it is, I struggle along with a
demo package out of an obsolete layout program that originated from a long
since defunct company (actually absorbed into a bloatware company) called
MicroCode Engineering.

If anybody ANYWHERE can point me to an easy to learn student oriented CHEAP
package that they can go pro with in a few years, I'd dearly love to hear
about it.

Jim

(And if anybody knows where Art Hatfield and company have relocated, I'd
like to hear about that too. That man was a genius in PCB program design.)

 

[Chuck Harris]

Kicad, or gEDA. Both are free, and both are capable of doing professional
work.

With gEDA, you can get your first years into helping with the development,
and turn it into an uber layout program.

-Chuck

 

[Marra]

"Some of these high flying packages are great and complete but when it
comes to a quick and dirty small PCB a cheaper package does the job
much quicker."

Certainly true... I saw a guy do full-fledged PCBs with all the digital bits
included using Ansoft Designer... he said it was quite the pain-in-the-ass..
 His deal was that he was working for some government-funded project, so
while they had gone through the (six month!) process to get $$$ Ansoft, heno
longer had (another six months!) to get a decent schematic capture/PCB layout
tool.

If your tool imprts Gerbers I'm sure he would have been quite interested in
your package, Marra.

Hmm... (looking at your web site...)  I think you get the award as the only
eCAD vendor whose web site has a link to *discos.*  Is that link to a friend's
web site?  Or you just have fond recollections of boogie nights from years
past?

---Joel

My software imports Gerber files but just a subset.

I run a disco as well as writing software.

 

[Marra]

Well, at least that's a start.
Those resistors are horribly BIG.
Are there any real ground symbols?
Scrap the 3D viewer, what point is there in having something so
simplistic as that?
Why support so many resist layers?
I'd also suggest you get yourself a real web address.

Dave.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The resistors are big to include wattage and tolerance in the value
field.
Only 2 resist layers are used but a resist layer could be on any layer
depending on how many layers are used.

www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk

 

[Marra]

   Much better Marra.  Now a person would have a definite idea as to
what he is getting.  But as David J. said though, you may want to just
drop the 3D viewer -- it just doesn't work out.  And if you ever
wanted to add a copper pour, along with the ability to drop vias
anywhere along that pour, your software could be a real contender
against the other lower-end schematic and layout packages.  Good
stuff.

-Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The software does power planes with vias being islands.
You can connect any pwerplane to any net.

The 3D viewer is quite useful for viewing the final board.

 

[Joel Koltner]

"I run a disco as well as writing software."

What's the monster heatsink/toroid transformer/control circuitry in the PC
case on your disco page
(http://www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/rockingdjdisco.htm)? Some sort of
lighting controller?

 

[Joel Koltner]

"The 3D viewer is quite useful for viewing the final board."

What people are trying to tell you, Marra, is that your version isn't really
in the same league as other commercial PCB packages that advertise a "3D
viewer." (See, e.g.,
www.pcb-sw.com/uploaded/files/Pulsonix%20V4.5%20Update.pdf for what
Pulsonix's looks like): People are used to be able to "spin" a 3D view with
their mouse, "flying" in and out of it... and also have the DRC tied into the
3D (height) attributes of each part, so they can make sure nothing hits the
top of their chassis (or whatever).

IMO though I think your 3D viewer is fine given the price of your software...
but you might find some customers thinking they're getting something rather
fancier than what you have at present.

---Joel

 

[David L. Jones]

The resistors are big to include wattage and tolerance in the value
field.

That's why other programs don't try and put the text inside the
resistor, it goes outside by default, above and below.
It looks silly the way it is, really.
And what if someone wants a ---/\/\/--- resistor symbol?

Seriously, work on the aesthetics in all aspects of your software and
it will do wonders. Ditch work on the auto router, auto placement, 3D
modeling and other non-essential stuff, they are not needed for a low
end package.

And put a demo version up.

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

"The 3D viewer is quite useful for viewing the final board."

What people are trying to tell you, Marra, is that your version isn't really
in the same league as other commercial PCB packages that advertise a "3D
viewer." (See, e.g.,www.pcb-sw.com/uploaded/files/Pulsonix%20V4.5%20Update.pdf for what
Pulsonix's looks like): People are used to be able to "spin" a 3D view with
their mouse, "flying" in and out of it... and also have the DRC tied into the
3D (height) attributes of each part, so they can make sure nothing hits the
top of their chassis (or whatever).

IMO though I think your 3D viewer is fine given the price of your software...
but you might find some customers thinking they're getting something rather
fancier than what you have at present.

---Joel

I agree. But I'd go further and say simply remove the 3D viewer
completely, I would not spend another second of your development time
on it. It is detrimental to the look of your overall package.

Stick with the basics - layout, schematic, footprints, library
managment/editing, gerber generation, usability, WYSIWYG etc. Ditch
the rest and concentrate development on the basics. People would
rather have an *excellent* basic package than an average package that
tries to do everything.

Just trying to provide some constructive criticism, hope it helps.

Dave.

 

[Marra]

That's why other programs don't try and put the text inside the
resistor, it goes outside by default, above and below.
It looks silly the way it is, really.
And what if someone wants a ---/\/\/--- resistor symbol?

Seriously, work on the aesthetics in all aspects of your software and
it will do wonders. Ditch work on the auto router, auto placement, 3D
modeling and other non-essential stuff, they are not needed for a low
end package.

And put a demo version up.

Dave.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But anyone can change any of the components.
You can move the resistor reference, value and outline to anything you
want.

The extras are simply to hook people into buying the software.
I must admit I rarely use the autorouter although it will route tracks
sperartely if you want which is useful.
The 3D view does give a better representation than the 2D model.

I dont understand the obsession with demo versions.
The software does what it says in the ad.
There are relatively few ways to add a component to a layout and wire
it up.
Typically the higher priced packages make it much more diffciult as
they want much more info than a cheaper package.

 

[Marra]

I agree. But I'd go further and say simply remove the 3D viewer
completely, I would not spend another second of your development time
on it. It is detrimental to the look of your overall package.

Stick with the basics - layout, schematic, footprints, library
managment/editing, gerber generation, usability, WYSIWYG etc. Ditch
the rest and  concentrate development on the basics. People would
rather have an *excellent* basic package than an average package that
tries to do everything.

Just trying to provide some constructive criticism, hope it helps.

Dave.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The software has been developed since around 1990 so it is a long way
down the road to doing what I want.
I wrote the software after trying to use other companies efforts.
A lot of features I found were missing on other packages, I was also
shocked at the number of crashes and holes in other packages.
Before anyone asks, no it is not DOS it is .net framework v3 now.

 

[Marra]

"I run a disco as well as writing software."

What's the monster heatsink/toroid transformer/control circuitry  in thePC
case on your disco page
(http://www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/rockingdjdisco.htm)? Some sort of
lighting controller?

Its a disco/guitar 600 watts RMS amplifier .
A disco forum wanted to see a picture of the home made amplifier.
The amplifier has a microcontroller in it for detecting fault states.
It disconnects the speakers via a relay if a fault condition occurrs.
It also detects short circuit output MOSFETS too.

 

[Marra]

"The 3D viewer is quite useful for viewing the final board."

What people are trying to tell you, Marra, is that your version isn't really
in the same league as other commercial PCB packages that advertise a "3D
viewer."  (See, e.g.,www.pcb-sw.com/uploaded/files/Pulsonix%20V4.5%20Update.pdf for what
Pulsonix's looks like): People are used to be able to "spin" a 3D view with
their mouse, "flying" in and out of it... and also have the DRC tied into the
3D (height) attributes of each part, so they can make sure nothing hits the
top of their chassis (or whatever).

IMO though I think your 3D viewer is fine given the price of your software....
but you might find some customers thinking they're getting something rather
fancier than what you have at present.

---Joel

The software sinply extrapolates the 2D data into 3D.
Clearly a resistor could be made up from polygons to create a nicer
image.
But things like connectors could be any shape.

The 3D module has just been started on and I am sure it will develop
as time goes by.

 

[Marra]

Your software seems to be pretty good at generating a mess, judging by
the schematic on your web site.

Leon

I have had no complaints from my customers !
Maybe my telephone and email helplines are all broken lol