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Thoughts on AutoTRAX PCB layout software?

M

Mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Our taxes pay for things like health care, which is free to everyone.
Our poorer people are probably a lot better off than the poor in your
country.

Leon

Hello Leon,

With all due respect, I find that awfully hard to believe.
Consider the following statistics from our census bureau.
This data is probably a a year or 2 old now, but I think
you'll get the picture.

There are 37 million persons classified as poor in America.

Of that 37 million:

43% own their own homes.
The average home owned by 43% has 3 bedrooms,
1 1/2 baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

Only 6% of poor households are overcrowded.
More than 2/3rds of poor households have more than 2 rooms/person.

The average poor person in America has more living space than the
average non poor person in the major cities of Europe.

80% of poor households have air conditioning.

Almost 3/4 of poor household own a car.
31% of them have 2 or more cars.

97% of poor households have color televisions.
Over 1/2 have 2 or more color TVs.

78% have a VCR or DVD player.

62% have cable or satellite TV.

89% own microwave ovens.

50% have a stereo.

Over 2/3 have an automatic dishwasher.

All in all, I'd have to say that our poor are doing pretty well.
I doubt that we or you folks in the UK have anymore than a
handfull of people who know real poverty.

Mike


"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I,
with my limited human mind, am able to recognize,
there are yet people who say there is no God.
But what really makes me angry is that they quote
me for the support of such views."
Albert Einstein (theoretical Physicist)
 
M

Marra

Jan 1, 1970
0
My software seems to have numerous checks.

1/ Clearance check.
2/ Continuity check.
3/ Integrity check which compares PCB and schematic.
4/ Unconnected pin checks.
5/ Single ended nets warnings.

If a PCBCAD package has one or more of these missing you could end up
with an expensive mess !
 
B

billcalley

Jan 1, 1970
0
My software seems to have numerous checks.

1/ Clearance check.
2/ Continuity check.
3/ Integrity check which compares PCB and schematic.
4/ Unconnected pin checks.
5/ Single ended nets warnings.

If a PCBCAD package has one or more of these missing you could end up
with an expensive mess !

Hi Marra,

Your PCB layout software sounds interesting, but since you do not
have any real screenshots of it on your web site (much less a limited
pin demo), then most people are not going to waste even the few pounds
sterling it takes to purchase PCBCAD. It may be really great
software, but no-one will ever know it (except for the few people who
may purchase it on Ebay). People may also be especially turned-off by
(now please don't take offense) the incredibly horrid web site design
you have that advertises PCBCAD.

-Bill
 
D

David L. Jones

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Marra,

Your PCB layout software sounds interesting, but since you do not
have any real screenshots of it on your web site (much less a limited
pin demo), then most people are not going to waste even the few pounds
sterling it takes to purchase PCBCAD. It may be really great
software, but no-one will ever know it (except for the few people who
may purchase it on Ebay). People may also be especially turned-off by
(now please don't take offense) the incredibly horrid web site design
you have that advertises PCBCAD.

It sure ranks right up there!
http://www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/murtonpikesystems.htm

Dave.
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
My software seems to have numerous checks.

1/ Clearance check.
2/ Continuity check.
3/ Integrity check which compares PCB and schematic.
4/ Unconnected pin checks.
5/ Single ended nets warnings.

If a PCBCAD package has one or more of these missing you could end up
with an expensive mess !

Your software seems to be pretty good at generating a mess, judging by
the schematic on your web site.

Leon
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mike said:
There are 37 million persons classified as poor in America.
Of that 37 million:
43% own their own homes.

That is a rather surprising number to me.
The average poor person in America has more living space than the
average non poor person in the major cities of Europe.

This has more to do with the amount of land available in the U.S. (and how
long the U.S. has been "settled" by Europeans for) than income, I think.
80% of poor households have air conditioning.

Yeah, but due to technology buying an air conditioner is cheap today. You can
find small window units for well under $100 used, and I've even seen plenty of
people give them away on, e.g., freecycle.com. On the other hand, if you're
living in a place like Arizona *running* the air conditioner is pretty hard
for the poor... although perhaps not that much worse than paying for heating
in, e.g., Minnesota during winter...
Almost 3/4 of poor household own a car.
31% of them have 2 or more cars.

This too reflects a bit more about the size of the U.S. and the price of
gasoline (still less than half of what most Europeans pay) than income: We
don't have particularly good inter-city public transport in the U.S. and only
the largest cities have anything approaching "full coverage" by busses and/or
trains. Hence a car is a pretty high priority, even if you're poor... and
hey, if you lose your home, it does serve as a place to live as many poor
people are all too well aware.
97% of poor households have color televisions.
Over 1/2 have 2 or more color TVs.
78% have a VCR or DVD player.

Again, due to technology all these items are pretty dirt cheap today. You can
easily find, e.g., 25" color TVs for, say, $20 at garage sales as
morel-well-heeled people are upgrading to huge plasma or LCD TVs.
62% have cable or satellite TV.

That one has always surprised me a bit, I guess because cable or satellite TV
don't seem like particularly good value for the money if you're short on
money... although it has been pointed out to me that ~$40/mo for "expanded
basic" that you can plop your kids in front of and keep them out of your hair
all day is a lot cheaper than childcare.
89% own microwave ovens.
50% have a stereo.

Also dirt cheap used.
Over 2/3 have an automatic dishwasher.

Probably not one they bought themselves but rather one that came with the home
or apartment. (AFAIK, pretty much all new apartments in the past 20+ years
have dishwashers...)
All in all, I'd have to say that our poor are doing pretty well.
I doubt that we or you folks in the UK have anymore than a
handfull of people who know real poverty.

The biggest problems for the poor in the U.S. seem to be health care
(completely unaffordable if you're working at close to minimum wage) and the
fear that, if your car does die, you won't be able to afford to fix it or get
another one and this will prevent you from working which then gets you kicked
out of your home for failure to pay rent or mortgage. Childcare is another
biggy if you're a single parent. (A single parent with young children who has
nothing better than a high-school diploma has a *very* deep "hole" to get out
of in this country!)

---Joel
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
" Your PCB layout software sounds interesting, but since you do not
have any real screenshots of it on your web site (much less a limited
pin demo), then most people are not going to waste even the few pounds
sterling it takes to purchase PCBCAD."

I've occasionally thought we ought to take up a collection to buy a copy and
then just pass it around from perso to person to compare (only one person
using it at a time, of course -- I'm not trying to rip off Marra here).
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey Leon,

Leon said:
I've used Pulsonix for years, it is infinitely easier to use than
Autotrax, and gets the job done very easily and quickly. It's a
comprehensive professional package, which definitely isn't the case
with Autotrax.

As a Pulsonix beta tester, do you have access to Easy-PC as well? Perhaps you
could write up a comparison between Easy-PC and Pulsonix one of these days?
Pulsonix is of course a little spendy for most hobbyists, yet I'm quite
curious (and I'm sure others are too) what all you're giving up by taking that
"step down" to Easy-PC... and for that matter what you gain: From the brochue
at http://www.pcb-sw.com/uploaded/files/Version 11 Details.pdf , the
"Design Calculators" appear to be a feature that Pulsonix doesn't have.

---Joel
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel said:
The biggest problems for the poor in the U.S. seem to be health care
(completely unaffordable if you're working at close to minimum wage)

You obviously haven't been near an emergency room in a while. The poor
use the E/R as their health care. They come in for all reasons, and pay
absolutely nothing for their care and prescriptions (given as samples).

It is now hard to get emergency care at the E/R's in Maryland.

-Chuck
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Owning is usually cheaper than renting, or there wouldn't be so many
people getting rich off rental property. You are paying the owner's
mortgage payment, taxes, insurance and repairs, then paying him for the
privilege.

That is a rather surprising number to me.


This has more to do with the amount of land available in the U.S. (and how
long the U.S. has been "settled" by Europeans for) than income, I think.


I bought a new air conditioner for $79 five years ago. It gets used
almost year round to lower the humidity.

Yeah, but due to technology buying an air conditioner is cheap today. You can
find small window units for well under $100 used, and I've even seen plenty of
people give them away on, e.g., freecycle.com. On the other hand, if you're
living in a place like Arizona *running* the air conditioner is pretty hard
for the poor... although perhaps not that much worse than paying for heating
in, e.g., Minnesota during winter...


How else do you get to work?

This too reflects a bit more about the size of the U.S. and the price of
gasoline (still less than half of what most Europeans pay) than income: We
don't have particularly good inter-city public transport in the U.S. and only
the largest cities have anything approaching "full coverage" by busses and/or
trains. Hence a car is a pretty high priority, even if you're poor... and
hey, if you lose your home, it does serve as a place to live as many poor
people are all too well aware.


Actually, it's more efficient to have your own transportation, than
to try to get other transportation. if you call a taxi, that can use
over twice the gasoline, because they have to make two trips to your
home.



A color TV is under %100. Mine is eight years old, and still
working. That works out to $0.0339 per day.



I've given away five working TV sets over the last couple years, and
keep having TVs given to me.



$29 at a lot of stores for a new VCR or DVD player.

Again, due to technology all these items are pretty dirt cheap today. You can
easily find, e.g., 25" color TVs for, say, $20 at garage sales as
morel-well-heeled people are upgrading to huge plasma or LCD TVs.


senior citizen 20 channel cable service is $12.95 per month. There
is no over air TV available here, without spending over $1000 for a 70
foot tower, antennas and amplifiers. that raises the property taxes,
and the insurance rates as well.

That one has always surprised me a bit, I guess because cable or satellite TV
don't seem like particularly good value for the money if you're short on
money... although it has been pointed out to me that ~$40/mo for "expanded
basic" that you can plop your kids in front of and keep them out of your hair
all day is a lot cheaper than childcare.


I paid $2 for mine.



Pick them up for free at a thrift store and fix them for a couple
dollars.

Also dirt cheap used.


I use Pyrex dishes in the microwave. Easy to clean with hot, soapy
water.

Probably not one they bought themselves but rather one that came with the home
or apartment. (AFAIK, pretty much all new apartments in the past 20+ years
have dishwashers...)


I haven't met them all, but there are over 3000 homeless US Veterans
living in the Ocala National Forest. These men and women live in
makeshift shelters and have no income, no health care and get little or
no help.

The biggest problems for the poor in the U.S. seem to be health care
(completely unaffordable if you're working at close to minimum wage) and the
fear that, if your car does die, you won't be able to afford to fix it or get
another one and this will prevent you from working which then gets you kicked
out of your home for failure to pay rent or mortgage. Childcare is another
biggy if you're a single parent. (A single parent with young children who has
nothing better than a high-school diploma has a *very* deep "hole" to get out
of in this country!)

---Joel


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Chuck Harris said:
You obviously haven't been near an emergency room in a while. The poor
use the E/R as their health care. They come in for all reasons, and pay
absolutely nothing for their care and prescriptions (given as samples).

There's certainly some truth to this in some parts of the country. However,
in many cases an ER won't treat you unless you really *do* have an emergency.
I've been told that in many cases poor people who are finally admitted to the
ER are there with problems that would have been *much* cheaper to "fix" if
they'd been addressed early on. Hence you end up with the usual case of, "pay
me now or pay me later," but with the later payment costing a lot more.
It is now hard to get emergency care at the E/R's in Maryland.

I don't think I'd blame the poor for bad triage? Every ER I've been to
(granted, not that many -- fortuntaely!) had a triage nurse who spend about
one minute with you sizing you how bad off you really were, and priotized your
treatment accordingly.

---Joel
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joel Koltner said:
I don't think I'd blame the poor for bad triage? Every ER I've been to
(granted, not that many -- fortuntaely!) had a triage nurse who spend about
spend->spent

one minute with you sizing you how bad off you really were, and priotized
your

sizing you->sizing up

I apparently can't type well today!
 
M

Marra

Jan 1, 1970
0
Your software seems to be pretty good at generating a mess, judging by
the schematic on your web site.

Leon

I have at least 2000 buyers who dont agree !
I rarely get asked for help on the helpline so it must be intuitive
and the manual holds up.
Most comments are along the line of "A huge piece of software for very
little money"

The customer is always right !
 
B

billcalley

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have at least 2000 buyers who dont agree !
I rarely get asked for help on the helpline so it must be intuitive
and the manual holds up.
Most comments are along the line of "A huge piece of software for very
little money"

The customer is always right !- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, common Marra -- just put some bloody screenshots up on your
web site to show people, at the very least, as to what your software
*looks* like!!! If PCBCAD at least *looks* good, you'd sell ten times
more product (whether it functioned well is another matter entirely --
in fact, that's why most other companies have a thing called a
"demo"). For heaven's sake, you programmed an entire piece of complex
software; is it so damn hard to take some clear screenshots??? And,
as I said, people get REALLY turned off and worried if you cannot even
put up a presentable web site; these potential customers then, quite
sensibly, wonder just how your software will look, and function, if
they purchase it -- no matter how low the price. Come on, this stuff
I'm saying is basic -- it's not marketing rocket science!!

-Bill
 
B

Brad Velander

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sorry Bill,
I thought that I caught somewhere in the thread that you were in the UK.
 
B

Brad Velander

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have seen that stat list previously, highly suspect. My first suspicion is
that very few homeless or down & out people fill out census forms.
 
B

Brad Velander

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Peter,
I was simply trying to point out that the deleting a footprint in Protel
(Shift-click or Select, then Shift-Delete) will remove the footprint and
it's conecting nets. Then the DRC will not report anything because the part
and it's net connections are no longer in the database to be checked. There
just seemed to be some skepticism that was the way it worked.
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Brad said:
I have seen that stat list previously, highly suspect. My first suspicion is
that very few homeless or down & out people fill out census forms.

They don't have to, the census volunteers canvass the area and count them,
whether they want to be counted or not. Basically, if someone in the community
knew they were there, they got counted. The census canvassers were downright
annoying, actually.

I seem to recall that the last census used some extrapolation for the first
time. There was a certain amount of controversy as to whether the constitution
allowed that.

-Chuck
 
L

Leon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey Leon,




As a Pulsonix beta tester, do you have access to Easy-PC as well? Perhaps you
could write up a comparison between Easy-PC and Pulsonix one of these days?
Pulsonix is of course a little spendy for most hobbyists, yet I'm quite
curious (and I'm sure others are too) what all you're giving up by taking that
"step down" to Easy-PC... and for that matter what you gain: From the brochue
athttp://www.pcb-sw.com/uploaded/files/Version%2011%20Details.pdf, the
"Design Calculators" appear to be a feature that Pulsonix doesn't have.

I don't have the current version of Easy-PC, although I could have it
if I wished.

I think that their general policy is to keep the products as distinct
as possible, with Easy-PC intended for the hobbyist and educational
market and Pulsonix serving the needs of the professional PCB
designer. They sometimes add features to Easy-PC first, if a new
release is imminent, and then incorporate them in Pulsonix when a new
release of that comes out. Pulsonix has *lots* of stuff that will
probably never be in Easy-PC like paired-track routing and microwave
track mitering.

Leon
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi Leon,

Leon said:
I think that their general policy is to keep the products as distinct
as possible, with Easy-PC intended for the hobbyist and educational
market and Pulsonix serving the needs of the professional PCB
designer.

The standard gameplan in the U.S. then, would be to be handing out Easy-PC to
universities for free or almost free to get the students "hooked," making sure
they're aware that the "professional" version of the software is Pulsonix so
that's what they should be purchasing when they begin working professionally
and have some capital to blow. :)
Pulsonix has *lots* of stuff that will
probably never be in Easy-PC like paired-track routing and microwave
track mitering.

Yeah, but if you're doing serious microwave work you're going to be using ADS,
Microwave Office, etc. anyway and then importing the Gerber output back into
Pulsonix as one complete "stamp."

---Joel
 
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