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kellys_eye
- Jun 25, 2010
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Hmmmm, my own experience of such (albeit fairly 'old' experience) is that whilst they specify 50k hours they don't tell you this includes light output degradation over that time period. The lights may still be working after 50k hours but will you be able to SEE anything by them????
We replaced our shop lighting (a real shop - high street retail outlet) with LEDs some 8 years ago (ok the technology has come a long way since) but the lights ALL required replacing after a year!
TCO is relevant (total cost of ownership) and it may be worthwhile doing the numbers before committing - and use 'real world' figures for life expectancy, not the manufacturers claimed results.
We replaced our shop lighting (a real shop - high street retail outlet) with LEDs some 8 years ago (ok the technology has come a long way since) but the lights ALL required replacing after a year!
TCO is relevant (total cost of ownership) and it may be worthwhile doing the numbers before committing - and use 'real world' figures for life expectancy, not the manufacturers claimed results.
I've been wondering about this. My basement has 36 tubes (9 light pans x 4 per pan). Years ago the company got a tax break by replacing all of the inductive ballasts with solid state and all of the 40 W bulbs with 34 W. I cherry picked three cases of lightly used tubes. Now I'm down to the last case and LED tubes are 1/3 the cost of 10 years ago, so I'm looking at LEDs going forward.
Does anyone have a link to a site that discusses and quantifies LED tube performance over time?
ak
Does anyone have a link to a site that discusses and quantifies LED tube performance over time?
ak
kellys_eye
- Jun 25, 2010
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Yeah, but try to prove it.
They'll insist (and I mean INSIST) that irrefutable evidence of on-time, installation date etc and that such a test/measurement is done by an approved/registered service (i.e. costly) and if you're wrong you not only don't get the refund for the services rendered you don't get the warranty (naturally) and it could end up being a costly mistake.
The suppliers know this.... natch.... and rely on customers simply replacing them out of their own pocket anyway when they inevitably degrade.
Other than an 'instant' failure of a device your 'warranty' is pretty useless.
This is par for the course with any LED lighting I've come across.
kellys_eye
- Jun 25, 2010
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You might have got lucky with the suppliers! Since their introduction there's no escaping the fact that less-than-perfect devices are finding their way onto the market and it's almost impossible to sort the wheat from the chaff. I reckon the earlier you bought them the less likelihood they'll be under-spec devices although that could be offset by their relative age and the consequent lower efficiency (they have undoubtedly got better over the years).
Recognising any substantial difference in light output (over the original) isn't easy though, especially in a domestic environment, but when we fitted them in our shop we had to comply with minimum lighting (lux) rules and failed after a year!
I suppose my experience has coloured my opinion - as it tends to do - and there should be better solutions out there today. Indeed I purchased a pair of LED fluorescent tubes from the local discount store recently and they are excellent in my workshop - bright, white and instant-on. Yes they cost 3x the price of a standard fluorescent tube but consume 1/3 the energy so right now I'm breaking even (so to speak) but if I have to replace them within 3 years I'll be out of pocket!
Recognising any substantial difference in light output (over the original) isn't easy though, especially in a domestic environment, but when we fitted them in our shop we had to comply with minimum lighting (lux) rules and failed after a year!
I suppose my experience has coloured my opinion - as it tends to do - and there should be better solutions out there today. Indeed I purchased a pair of LED fluorescent tubes from the local discount store recently and they are excellent in my workshop - bright, white and instant-on. Yes they cost 3x the price of a standard fluorescent tube but consume 1/3 the energy so right now I'm breaking even (so to speak) but if I have to replace them within 3 years I'll be out of pocket!
Well I'm about to find out, I just installed 30 tubes. I can say and know the following. T8 with ballast & florescent tubes not so great, after upgrading to them 2-3 years back.
This spring I replaced 2 ballast in a 6 tube fixture, a week ago I'm seeing a tube on life support in that same fixture. Then also notice one over the lathe flickering. Before this, a ballast failure in another 6 tube fixture, and at least 3-4 other tubes failed around. The tubes are not the cheapest shit I could find, not the way I roll just saying, quality is a none issue.
Spending more time than I want too with lighting maintenance, I went the LED rout. What I see an the advantage is a follows. I can direct wire the tube, by-pass the ballast, removing a point of failure. The light area coverage is more spread and consistent, tube for tube than its brother the florescent.
Do I expect the upgrade to be the last time I will replace a failed tube? Only a total moron would think that. What I am sure of is, I will not be changing anymore ballast ...
Lighting in my home, incandescent thru out, do not like the LED for that application.
Greg
This spring I replaced 2 ballast in a 6 tube fixture, a week ago I'm seeing a tube on life support in that same fixture. Then also notice one over the lathe flickering. Before this, a ballast failure in another 6 tube fixture, and at least 3-4 other tubes failed around. The tubes are not the cheapest shit I could find, not the way I roll just saying, quality is a none issue.
Spending more time than I want too with lighting maintenance, I went the LED rout. What I see an the advantage is a follows. I can direct wire the tube, by-pass the ballast, removing a point of failure. The light area coverage is more spread and consistent, tube for tube than its brother the florescent.
Do I expect the upgrade to be the last time I will replace a failed tube? Only a total moron would think that. What I am sure of is, I will not be changing anymore ballast ...
Lighting in my home, incandescent thru out, do not like the LED for that application.
Greg
In my experience, as pointed out, it can be down to the quality of the gear. As most is from the land of cheapies, or end up being so, it is not so much the LEDs but the drivers that go belly-up. A call to a child minding centre a few weeks back found these replacement T8 tube drivers( located inside the tube) did not take kindly to a lost phase situation that caused low voltage across the remaining lines. Spewed their guts out everywhere. Old balast fitting couldn't care less, up and going again when power restored.
That's the one Bob.
The T5 tubes are the ones about 12mm dia with the bend in the middle when installed.
T8 don't normally require any mods to the light if it is a standard ballast , just the starter is replaced by a fuse which plugs into the starter receptacle.
One thing to avoid, as we always tend to hold the fingers on one hand across the pins at one end to "line up" in the opposite socket. Obviously check power is off first....... mmmmm
The T5 tubes are the ones about 12mm dia with the bend in the middle when installed.
T8 don't normally require any mods to the light if it is a standard ballast , just the starter is replaced by a fuse which plugs into the starter receptacle.
One thing to avoid, as we always tend to hold the fingers on one hand across the pins at one end to "line up" in the opposite socket. Obviously check power is off first....... mmmmm
To be clear I am only talking about the tube, and not a complete fixture with tubes. I retrofitted T8 florescent fixtures or pans as some call them.
That said and not wearing a light bulb/tube hat.
Doing a limited search, it appears that the LED tubes are only made for the T8 fixtures
The T8 is 1inch in diameter and has green caps on the ends.... this describes the T8 fluorescent tube.
The LED T8, the ones I have are 1in diameter and have white caps on the ends
T8 LED Tubes
Cheers,
Greg
That said and not wearing a light bulb/tube hat.
Doing a limited search, it appears that the LED tubes are only made for the T8 fixtures
The T8 is 1inch in diameter and has green caps on the ends.... this describes the T8 fluorescent tube.
The LED T8, the ones I have are 1in diameter and have white caps on the ends
T8 LED Tubes
Cheers,
Greg
How much do you pay for those LED T8s?
With incandescent type LED replacement (probably true for T8) I have seen LED bulbs add the spec for on/off cycle times.
For home use, this would make the bulb life much less than the LED life itself!
Anyways ,
the 50,000 number is for the LEDs only, not the bulb.
Here is a E27 example specified at 11,000 hours by philips.
Thus they claim 10 years at 3hours/day.
Is this a reasonable calculation?
I think not,some bulbs are used much more a day,up to 3 times more.
So ,3 years would be a more realistic number.
Note that you can get bulbs with 3 years warranty! and some do replace them no questions asked
I tried 2 2000 lumens(E27) bulbs.
One poped after a few times of on/off (and replaced no questions asked),
the other works fine for about 6 months very bright warm white light.
With incandescent type LED replacement (probably true for T8) I have seen LED bulbs add the spec for on/off cycle times.
For home use, this would make the bulb life much less than the LED life itself!
Anyways ,
the 50,000 number is for the LEDs only, not the bulb.
Here is a E27 example specified at 11,000 hours by philips.
Thus they claim 10 years at 3hours/day.
Is this a reasonable calculation?
I think not,some bulbs are used much more a day,up to 3 times more.
So ,3 years would be a more realistic number.
Note that you can get bulbs with 3 years warranty! and some do replace them no questions asked
I tried 2 2000 lumens(E27) bulbs.
One poped after a few times of on/off (and replaced no questions asked),
the other works fine for about 6 months very bright warm white light.
kellys_eye
- Jun 25, 2010
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My in-laws were going to fit those filament LED bulbs and needed around 40. I offered to get them direct from China for less than 1/4 the price they were being retailed at here in the UK.
They refused my offer as they said their supplier offered a 3 year warranty on them - which they DID hold to as quite a few did 'expire' within hours of fitting. But no surprises that they held to their warranty as at those 'inflated' prices they could give away 100 or more and still walk away with a healthy profit given they probably got them from the same Chinese source I was going to use!
Might be better to just replace the fitting with say one of the floodlight range.
Nephew fitted some 50w units off Ebay about 5 years ago and still seem to be holding up ok.
Then again the use is exterior short time use.
If you can get onto the Cree type probably a better investment.
Edit:- Just checked and they go from around 10w to 100w in the cool white (6000k) to warm white (3500k) and range in price up to about $45.00 Aus.
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Tha fios agaibh
- Aug 11, 2014
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Right
And, both T8 and T12 use the same socket configuration so you can retrofit both types of fixtures with the T8 led.
Pepi, just an off topic comment.....wondered if you've used the mill yet? Both mill and lathe look new. I bought the same mill a few years back and the top motor had a design flaw in the base mount. It left the motor sitting skewiff and resulted in a snapped motor shaft. Yes really, snapped a 20mm shaft clean off like a carrot. Of course it was replaced free of charge so no worries there, just machine out of action for a couple of weeks. Really crappy motor coupling design.
