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Structured wiring: fiber optic or not?

B

Bob E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
A friend is having a new roof put on his his 50-year-old, flat-roof home.
This provides access to all kinds of new wiring possibilities for the
structure.

He wants to do 2xCAT6 and 2xRG-6 throughout. I'm not sure what to recommend
re. fiber optic.

Is it too soon to know how this will be an advantage to existing homes?

I hear there are several FO standards (62.5 micron, 50 micron). Is there
strong competition, or is one the clear favorite into the future?

What should I recommend?

Thanks.
 
B

Bob E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
How about some big conduit and some fish lines, so anything can be
added later?

John

Hadn't thought of that. It's a great idea.

Thanks!
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob said:
Hadn't thought of that. It's a great idea.

Thanks!


Second that. Fiber has been around for decades and never really caught
on for internal communications. It's great for moving lots of data over
really long distance, but within a building there is just not much
advantage over copper and a lot of disadvantages.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fibre needs it's own conduit. It is still fragile, limited bend radius and
subject to shock. Secondly, it will be corning glass so thin that it bends.
Plastic fibres have too much opacity, went out with hooped skirts and is
limited to toys and lamps now.

If you damage it you may not realize it until you wonder why the bandwidth
is so bad. Stick with copper inside a buiding as James stated.. The fibre
optic providers do. Glass fibre has never been faster than the copper
circuits that feed it.


Second that. Fiber has been around for decades and never really caught
on for internal communications. It's great for moving lots of data over
really long distance, but within a building there is just not much
advantage over copper and a lot of disadvantages.
 
P

PeterD

Jan 1, 1970
0
A friend is having a new roof put on his his 50-year-old, flat-roof home.
This provides access to all kinds of new wiring possibilities for the
structure.

He wants to do 2xCAT6 and 2xRG-6 throughout. I'm not sure what to recommend
re. fiber optic.

Is it too soon to know how this will be an advantage to existing homes?

I hear there are several FO standards (62.5 micron, 50 micron). Is there
strong competition, or is one the clear favorite into the future?

What should I recommend?

Thanks.

Recommend any system that allows easy upgrades, such as conduit with
pull cords installed. Then he can pull through whatever the current
cool stuff he wants.
 
Q

quasar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Recommend any system that allows easy upgrades, such as conduit with
pull cords installed. Then he can pull through whatever the current
cool stuff he wants.


Save time and money. Run both single and multi mode fibers but perform
no terminations.

Then, use as needed as the future technology dictates. The savings is
in the time it would take to fish lines in the future. Doing it now,
while those tasks are what you are doing anyway, will save a lot of time,
and you'll thank yourself in the future for not having to do it then.
 
T

The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jacketed fiber is tough. One trick is to blow it into existing
underground gas pipes, with a little parachute/umbrella sort of thing.
A quarter inch bend radius has no effect on the stuff we use.

But shock?


John

More Larkin non-sense.

1/4" bend radius is not true.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra said:
More Larkin non-sense.

1/4" bend radius is not true.


It depends on the fiber. I have a fiber patch cable that came from some
networking gear at work that got removed. It has a yellow jacket and
appears at first glance very much like 18 gauge zip cord only a little
thinner. You can tie it in a knot without breaking the fiber, although
in practice I wouldn't recommend it.

This is pretty much just academic at this point though, nobody installs
fiber from point to point within a building anymore. Copper is easier,
more versatile, and cheaper; both the medium itself and the equipment at
the ends. The only time it makes sense to use fiber is when you
absolutely need electrical isolation.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
All glass fibre optics need a large radius for the bends. 1/4" radius will
definitely break any of the corning glass products we used to build a four
city wide MAN fibre optic network.

I was warned of this bend problem early in my installation training and
thought it was bunk. I was using electrical tape boxes (about 4.5" dia.) to
store spare flexible jumper leads for usage in the field instead of making
two trips from the site to warehouse each time. It took a few months to a
few years for the fractures to show up in the glass and become problems for
customers once they achieve high bandwidths and cannot attain them, due to
data errors...fractured glass strands = reflected light and bad light
conduction.

One day a contract cross country fibre optic company we used to do all our
splices, showed me, with his laser light indicator, what happens when you
bend the stuff too sharply. Red light spills out the sides at the fractures
and you can see it right throuygh the jackets too. Most strands never
recover but still work fine, depending on tolerable light losses. We stopped
storing the flex jumpers in small round boxes from then on. Behind the
scenes I began seeing all our installed jumpers being replaced due to data
errors (light impedance)....ooops!

Check the specs and although these jacketed outdoor cables with many strands
looks tough they cannot make the sharp bends. Most specs will tell you to
use no smaller than 2-3" conduit to enforce slow turns.

Shock?
A few incidents where cables between poles were hit, one by a dumptruck, and
a pole hit in an accident (IIRC), shattered some (or all) of the strands in
50 or 100 strand aerial cables. The contractors started cutting back cable
sheaths to find the start of the good glass sections and make a splice
there. One fracture from the dumptruck with dumper up, stretched the cable
so badly before snapping, the inside the fractured strands when over 1 km in
one direction and almost 1/2 km the other, due to longitudinal mechanical
shock. The injuries are restrung back to the nearest splice box now, without
test, and it it takes a few km of new cable it is faster and cheaper. The
drivers not looking pay big time for those ones.


Jacketed fiber is tough. One trick is to blow it into existing
underground gas pipes, with a little parachute/umbrella sort of thing.
A quarter inch bend radius has no effect on the stuff we use.

But shock?


John
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
ALl fibre optic strand are made from Corning glass and will not bend that
sharply. As somebody that has destroyed hundreds of those yellow jumpers (I
didn't believe it either) that you can tie in knots, I know they are ruined
inside after that.

Find somebody with a red laser LED jumper tester or OTDR tester and you will
see what I mean. The light does not make those corners and spills out the
sides of the jacket. After you straighten it out the light still spills out
the sides of the jacket if you have created minute fractures, the glass is
broken inside now.

Read the specs. I forget the rule of thumb but the minimum radius is abut 15
times the diameter of the cable, typically. Glass does not bend, or stretch,
that far without damage.



It depends on the fiber. I have a fiber patch cable that came from some
networking gear at work that got removed. It has a yellow jacket and
appears at first glance very much like 18 gauge zip cord only a little
thinner. You can tie it in a knot without breaking the fiber, although
in practice I wouldn't recommend it.

This is pretty much just academic at this point though, nobody installs
fiber from point to point within a building anymore. Copper is easier,
more versatile, and cheaper; both the medium itself and the equipment at
the ends. The only time it makes sense to use fiber is when you
absolutely need electrical isolation.



The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra wrote:
More Larkin non-sense.

1/4" bend radius is not true.
 
T

The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra

Jan 1, 1970
0
It depends on the fiber. I have a fiber patch cable that came from some
networking gear at work that got removed. It has a yellow jacket and
appears at first glance very much like 18 gauge zip cord only a little
thinner. You can tie it in a knot without breaking the fiber, although
in practice I wouldn't recommend it.

His declaration is below that of any fiber I have ever seen.
This is pretty much just academic at this point though, nobody installs
fiber from point to point within a building anymore.


You are not very bright. Nearly ALL government facilities utilize it.
It does not radiate. It is used widely by the military as well.
And yes, I do refer to structural installations.
Copper is easier,

I am quite sure that you have failed to cover all of the decision
making points surrounding a comm link medium choice.
more versatile, and cheaper; both the medium itself and the equipment at
the ends. The only time it makes sense to use fiber is when you
absolutely need electrical isolation.

There are more reasons, but you seem to enjoy simplification.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a couple of BlackBox 100Mbit media converters for FIbre to Ethernet
and back I can sell to somebody. They wholesale for about $1000 each. I am
sure they would have come down a bit by now. They support all the handshake
check signals too.

For 100Mbit or even 1000Mbit why bother, unless you want to talk over a
couple of km? Run copper inside. The fibre optic providers do.



Save time and money. Run both single and multi mode fibers but perform
no terminations.

Then, use as needed as the future technology dictates. The savings is
in the time it would take to fish lines in the future. Doing it now,
while those tasks are what you are doing anyway, will save a lot of time,
and you'll thank yourself in the future for not having to do it then.
 
B

BarnCat

Jan 1, 1970
0

Go away, top posting retard. Come back when you are capable of
observing Usenet posting conventions and expected practices.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Josepi said:
I have a couple of BlackBox 100Mbit media converters for FIbre to Ethernet
and back I can sell to somebody. They wholesale for about $1000 each. I am
sure they would have come down a bit by now. They support all the handshake
check signals too.


Like these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-StarTech-co...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2a2f3320

There's several similar items still sitting at the opening bid. We
scrapped a bunch of this sort of stuff at one of the companies I worked,
it was a pain in the butt, hardware was expensive, and the advantages
were far outweighed by the disadvantages when it came to connecting
individual workstations and servers to the intranet.


For 100Mbit or even 1000Mbit why bother, unless you want to talk over a
couple of km? Run copper inside. The fibre optic providers do.

Which is what I've been saying the whole time. Unless you have a very
specialized need for fiber, there's no point. It was popular for a while
but in internal networks, gigabit copper pretty much knocked it out for
all but a few specialized applications.
 
A

AM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Do you mean Cat. 6A? I've never heard of 6E.

That would make you the fucking idiot then, because a simple google
search would have kept your foot out of your mouth, and the "I'm with
stupid" T-shirt with the arrow pointing up at the wearer off your back.
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
In said:
I think OM-1 is 220m with Gigait, 1000 base SX. OM-3 laser optimised
fibre will do 10 Gb, 10G base SR, at several hundred metres, I think
it's 300 m.

The longer wavelength optics normally used with single mode fibre are
significantly more expensive. It is possible to run 1000 base LX over
OM-1 and OM-2 multimode fiber using special mode conditioning patch
cords, but you'd probably only do this if you already had existing
older fibre installed.

As for connectors, ST were the most common at one time, but later
equipment tended to be SC. In more recent times the smaller LC
connector has become very common, and is probably the most popular.
It is also the recommend standard for use with OM-3 fibre. We've
found all of these connector types to be reliable, and MTRJ to be very
unreliable.

none of this matters.

nobody is going to be hooking up fiber devices in their home, no matter
what's in the walls already.
 
T

The_Giant_Rat_of_Sumatra

Jan 1, 1970
0
none of this matters.

You're an idiot.
nobody is going to be hooking up fiber devices in their home, no matter
what's in the walls already.

I have a former boss that lives in WV now, and he re-built his entire
home from the ground up, and installed fiber, coax, Cat6, etc. into his
home. He does use it.

Your "mo matter what" remark proves that you do not know what the ****
you are talking about, boy.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
I doubt a householder will ever need to connect multiple servers via
anything to his multitude of PCs around the building.


What I wrote there wasn't very clear. When I wrote that there are
comms rooms at each end of the building I didn't mean actually *at*
the ends, but rather in the East and West parts of the building. our
building is long, and a strange shape. It's not always possible to
take cables by a very direct route, e.g. where you need to go up or
down through the building have to get them to a service riser where
you can run them. Many of our fibre runs within the main building are
over 100 m, and some over twice that. Some of them also run through
electrically noisy areas with heavy machinery. Other than when used
with MTRJ connectors, we've found fibre to be very reliable, more so
than copper. I wouldn't run it to the desktop though, as some propose.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yup, except these are used for about 30km distances, high powered units. The
<2km units are much cheaper.

We used these for across cities at the customer sites against some rack
mount crap at the POP site end.


Like these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-StarTech-co...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2a2f3320

There's several similar items still sitting at the opening bid. We
scrapped a bunch of this sort of stuff at one of the companies I worked,
it was a pain in the butt, hardware was expensive, and the advantages
were far outweighed by the disadvantages when it came to connecting
individual workstations and servers to the intranet.



I have a couple of BlackBox 100Mbit media converters for FIbre to Ethernet
and back I can sell to somebody. They wholesale for about $1000 each. I am
sure they would have come down a bit by now. They support all the
handshake
check signals too.




For 100Mbit or even 1000Mbit why bother, unless you want to talk over a
couple of km? Run copper inside. The fibre optic providers do.

Which is what I've been saying the whole time. Unless you have a very
specialized need for fiber, there's no point. It was popular for a while
but in internal networks, gigabit copper pretty much knocked it out for
all but a few specialized applications.
 
J

Josepi

Jan 1, 1970
0
A few less than 100. If you counted CPUs I might be close.

Cripes even my thermostats talk on a RS485 bus but not Ethernet so no router
yet...LOL



You must have less than 100 PCs.
 
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