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While you are busy designing...is it possible to give me a design for a MUCH BUTCHER less prone to die, separate driver circuit...like a Mosfet BUZ type..there is plenty of room in the robot to add such things.
AHH crap, Im putting the cart before the horse again...lets just get the original drivers goin'
AHH crap, Im putting the cart before the horse again...lets just get the original drivers goin'
Geranium is a genus of 422 species of flowering plants. Germanium is a metalloid chemical element sometimes used to produce electronic components.
One of these things is not like the other.
GEEEZE, a guy falls for a spell check, and he never hears the end of it!
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Kim . . . . .
OK . . . . of the transistors that you have given as being used in the "torso" of the unit . . .
The 2SA945 is being a common small signal NPN bipolar transistor that is fulfilling more of a small signal handling function, where it can be handling up to 0.25W at up to 0.1A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sc945
The 2SD467 is being a bit heftier power of NPN bipolar transistor that is fulfilling more of a medium power handling function, where it can be handling up to 0.5W at up to 0.7A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sd467
The 2SSB561 is being the cookie cutter PNP complement of the 2SD467 just above, and is also a bit heftier medium power PNP bipolar transistor that can be handling up to 0.5W at up to 0.7A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sb561
The last two transistors will be associated with your sets of motor driver transistors , while the 2SA945 will be associated with being an ancillary transistor or a driver, interfacing to the last two / complementary pair.
Thassssssit . . . .
ATTENTION . . .all hands on deck . . .now hear this . . . . .FIO
****This data sheet site . . . associated with Newark . . . . is only superseded by All Transistor Data . . .as my favorite lookup site for common bipolars, as being compared to those that jack you all around in their eventual sparse or non existent info.
73's de Edd
.....
OK . . . . of the transistors that you have given as being used in the "torso" of the unit . . .
The 2SA945 is being a common small signal NPN bipolar transistor that is fulfilling more of a small signal handling function, where it can be handling up to 0.25W at up to 0.1A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sc945
The 2SD467 is being a bit heftier power of NPN bipolar transistor that is fulfilling more of a medium power handling function, where it can be handling up to 0.5W at up to 0.7A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sd467
The 2SSB561 is being the cookie cutter PNP complement of the 2SD467 just above, and is also a bit heftier medium power PNP bipolar transistor that can be handling up to 0.5W at up to 0.7A collector current.
Its Datasheet . . .
http://www.el-component.com/bipolar-transistors/2sb561
The last two transistors will be associated with your sets of motor driver transistors , while the 2SA945 will be associated with being an ancillary transistor or a driver, interfacing to the last two / complementary pair.
Thassssssit . . . .
ATTENTION . . .all hands on deck . . .now hear this . . . . .FIO
****This data sheet site . . . associated with Newark . . . . is only superseded by All Transistor Data . . .as my favorite lookup site for common bipolars, as being compared to those that jack you all around in their eventual sparse or non existent info.
73's de Edd
.....
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The C1390 is an old Hitachi 2SC1390 that is almost the same an many ordinary little transistors except its pins are in the Japanese sequence of ECB. European BC547 pins are CBE sequence and American 2N3904 pins are EBC sequence. I do not know the other parts you listed.
You are correct, the units I have actually have a tiny Hitachi logo imprinted on them.
The other 2 I cannot find anything on, the Diode shows up as a huge power diode, which mine isnt, its a black blob unit, the same size as a 2n2004
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
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- 3,628
Sir Kim . . . . .
If you are now either fully stymied or stoooooooop-eeee- fried over your
no-workee-no-mo dilemma . . . . . . .and have come to a complete stop.
This should be close enough to the design concept which is used for that
units motor driver circuit.
Check the cluster of transistors in the unit and trace out a set of 6.
Initially confirm that none of the transistors are either open junction or shorted.
One associated motor lead will need to be lifted while confirming that.
If a cluster passes, then power up and confirm that your +6 VDC is reaching a
VT1 and VT2 sets emitters while the batttery negative is reaching VT3 and VT4
sets of emitters.
If that is true, then taking a 1k resistor from +6 VDC and connecting its free end
to either a VT5 or VT6 base should spin the motor in its respective directions.
Think up any related questions and I will answer them tomorrow.
Aside thought . . . . I think that sole mystery diode is going to be a lower than
6VDC . . . .4.7 ? 4.3 ? V . . 750MW Zener diode . that is maintaining a steady
regulated voltage to the receiver, since motor run action will be wreaking havoc
with the receiver supply line.
UNLESS it is run by a separate 9V ? battery . . . you tell me.
Thassssssssit . . . . .
BI-DIRECTIONAL MOTOR DRIVER CIRCUIT . . . . .
73's de Edd
If you are now either fully stymied or stoooooooop-eeee- fried over your
no-workee-no-mo dilemma . . . . . . .and have come to a complete stop.
This should be close enough to the design concept which is used for that
units motor driver circuit.
Check the cluster of transistors in the unit and trace out a set of 6.
Initially confirm that none of the transistors are either open junction or shorted.
One associated motor lead will need to be lifted while confirming that.
If a cluster passes, then power up and confirm that your +6 VDC is reaching a
VT1 and VT2 sets emitters while the batttery negative is reaching VT3 and VT4
sets of emitters.
If that is true, then taking a 1k resistor from +6 VDC and connecting its free end
to either a VT5 or VT6 base should spin the motor in its respective directions.
Think up any related questions and I will answer them tomorrow.
Aside thought . . . . I think that sole mystery diode is going to be a lower than
6VDC . . . .4.7 ? 4.3 ? V . . 750MW Zener diode . that is maintaining a steady
regulated voltage to the receiver, since motor run action will be wreaking havoc
with the receiver supply line.
UNLESS it is run by a separate 9V ? battery . . . you tell me.
Thassssssssit . . . . .
BI-DIRECTIONAL MOTOR DRIVER CIRCUIT . . . . .
73's de Edd
Thanks very much ED ...what Im going to do is us a proper semiconductor tester, that will supposedly tell me exactly what Diode it is, and its condition. I ve never had one, so this is a really good time to order one from Amazon.
I will get back to you on this as both scenarios make sense , a zener to regulate , and a logic diode..
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
- 3,628
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
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Sir Kim . . . . .
The base . . . . .d/678k2 . . . . . would make you want to interpret it by its full alphanumerical identifier of 2SD678,with that final end K2 suffix, referring to its beta spread / gain.
Doesn't work . . . . . . . . . . as it then comes out as a one hefty big power transistor. .
I am assuming that it is being in a small TO-92 case, instead of the other few rectangular ones seen being used in he unit.
Hopefully, and I highly suspect that it will have NO fault and some info can be gleaned from it by the forthcoming transistor analyzer.
Such as, its type, lead placement info and beta.
???? again . . . . . . . . .Is it appearing that there is a separate 9V battery, which might be supplying the receiver transistor .?
73's de Edd
.....
The base . . . . .d/678k2 . . . . . would make you want to interpret it by its full alphanumerical identifier of 2SD678,with that final end K2 suffix, referring to its beta spread / gain.
Doesn't work . . . . . . . . . . as it then comes out as a one hefty big power transistor. .
I am assuming that it is being in a small TO-92 case, instead of the other few rectangular ones seen being used in he unit.
Hopefully, and I highly suspect that it will have NO fault and some info can be gleaned from it by the forthcoming transistor analyzer.
Such as, its type, lead placement info and beta.
???? again . . . . . . . . .Is it appearing that there is a separate 9V battery, which might be supplying the receiver transistor .?
73's de Edd
.....
Yes I am impatiently awaiting the analyzers triumphant arrival.
I have wanted one lo these many years, but I really do little to no repair, just diddling around with making overly-simple logic stuff.
That specific unit.d/678k2 is the same small plastic case as all the others, but lets see that the analyzer says it is, as well as the small glass Diode, if its just a logic diode or a Zener.
The unit does have a dedicated 9v supply for the receiving portion, and a 2 x C-cell, 3 volt supply for the motors.
So theoretically the logic diode theory makes sense to limit the amount of back-emf from the motors switching, but a Zener diode is also practical, to give the receiver some sense of stability....which will it be??????.
Whatever the problem is, its a design problem, as almost every unit made is dead, and the handful that arnt...simply were not played with much.
I honestly think that as well, the transistors used to power the motors were waaaay under powered to slog around a heavy, top heavy unit.....getting caught on every crack in any uneven surface, or getting bogged down in carpet.
It actually came with a warning not to use it on carpet...WELL...every late-70 household was carpeted.
IF and when I get these buggars going, i will be looking for a separate unit to control the motors using something more POWER-MOSFET-ish that will take the stress off the driver transistors...a separate driver for each motor
I have a unit that ill be slowly extracting the semiconductors on, and testing them, while another unit will be sent to another tech, who has considerable experience in repair of 70's toys...and may the best man win.
I have wanted one lo these many years, but I really do little to no repair, just diddling around with making overly-simple logic stuff.
That specific unit.d/678k2 is the same small plastic case as all the others, but lets see that the analyzer says it is, as well as the small glass Diode, if its just a logic diode or a Zener.
The unit does have a dedicated 9v supply for the receiving portion, and a 2 x C-cell, 3 volt supply for the motors.
So theoretically the logic diode theory makes sense to limit the amount of back-emf from the motors switching, but a Zener diode is also practical, to give the receiver some sense of stability....which will it be??????.
Whatever the problem is, its a design problem, as almost every unit made is dead, and the handful that arnt...simply were not played with much.
I honestly think that as well, the transistors used to power the motors were waaaay under powered to slog around a heavy, top heavy unit.....getting caught on every crack in any uneven surface, or getting bogged down in carpet.
It actually came with a warning not to use it on carpet...WELL...every late-70 household was carpeted.
IF and when I get these buggars going, i will be looking for a separate unit to control the motors using something more POWER-MOSFET-ish that will take the stress off the driver transistors...a separate driver for each motor
I have a unit that ill be slowly extracting the semiconductors on, and testing them, while another unit will be sent to another tech, who has considerable experience in repair of 70's toys...and may the best man win.
TAH DAAAAH!Ok, gots my Semi Tester just a few seconds after posting the above, and here are the 2 outcomes for the unknown transistor and diode..
So I dont Know what the hell these units are...but they do seem to be working.
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Ok, im thinking of moving this to another part of the forum, but it has so much info, it may not be possible, so Im going to take this in a different direction.
So lets just say that I have a fully working unit...(which I am on the verge of happening!)
So taking into consideration the density of the boards, and the very little additional room where the board is residing......
I have 2 questions.
1-Can I "Butch Up" the transistors in the Motor Driver Circuitry, using different semiconductors with a higher rating, but still the same pastic body size, and if so, what would they be?...such as a tip 120?
ORRRRRR............
2-is there a way to "addon" 3 remote circuits, each taking the driver voltages for each of the 3 Motors IN.....and spitting the voltages back out to the motors, acting as a sort of "Intermediate Motor Driver" each taking the stress out of the drivers on the actual circuit boards.
There is plenty of room in the lower part of the body where such boards could reside.
All of these units die, because of the stress of driving around such a huge gobby of plastic.
So lets just say that I have a fully working unit...(which I am on the verge of happening!)
So taking into consideration the density of the boards, and the very little additional room where the board is residing......
I have 2 questions.
1-Can I "Butch Up" the transistors in the Motor Driver Circuitry, using different semiconductors with a higher rating, but still the same pastic body size, and if so, what would they be?...such as a tip 120?
ORRRRRR............
2-is there a way to "addon" 3 remote circuits, each taking the driver voltages for each of the 3 Motors IN.....and spitting the voltages back out to the motors, acting as a sort of "Intermediate Motor Driver" each taking the stress out of the drivers on the actual circuit boards.
There is plenty of room in the lower part of the body where such boards could reside.
All of these units die, because of the stress of driving around such a huge gobby of plastic.
73's de Edd
- Aug 21, 2015
- 3,628
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2015
- Messages
- 3,628
Sir Kim . . . . .
How close are you to having motor drive and remote action again ?.
If that was my unit to repair I would be using a paralleled pair of 18650 li Ion cells for motor power with 3.7 VDC and a whole day or more of run time. If those motor drive transistors don't warm up, I would still use them, if changing out I would use some Zetex LOW VCE (sat) transistors, that excel in that type of low voltage moderate current, low loss application.
But I think that with time . . . that either ON semi or Diodes Inc has now become their new Sugar Daddy, I will have to look up some numbers in their old catalogs.
If you happen to have a component audio system with RCA connector audio inputs plus a 3 ft long RCA patch cord and a 0.1 ufd capacitor and a double clip / test lead . I can show you how to test out the receiver section of a unit.
73's de Edd
.....
How close are you to having motor drive and remote action again ?.
If that was my unit to repair I would be using a paralleled pair of 18650 li Ion cells for motor power with 3.7 VDC and a whole day or more of run time. If those motor drive transistors don't warm up, I would still use them, if changing out I would use some Zetex LOW VCE (sat) transistors, that excel in that type of low voltage moderate current, low loss application.
But I think that with time . . . that either ON semi or Diodes Inc has now become their new Sugar Daddy, I will have to look up some numbers in their old catalogs.
If you happen to have a component audio system with RCA connector audio inputs plus a 3 ft long RCA patch cord and a 0.1 ufd capacitor and a double clip / test lead . I can show you how to test out the receiver section of a unit.
73's de Edd
.....
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