Squawk Box

[bigkim100]

LOL - you certainly fooled me..... my idea of an R2D2 sound is probably a lot more complex than the noises that board could deliver hence the thought of a COB somewhere....

Given its age I'd replace all the electrolytic capacitors and see how that affects things.

There are 4 leaf switches, so I can only guess that there are 4 individual tones...kinda simple...but that the way it was in the 70's

 

[73's de Edd]

Sir bigkim100 . . . . .

BEHOLD . . . submitted herewith . . .a full replotting and resubmission of your board photos, after anointing with Holy water and annotating with resplendently cryptic markings.

If this device is being chonoligically dated to R2-D2, it would have to be of post 1975-6.vintage.
Plus my observation of the transistor housings and particularly the inline rectangular ones are making this transistor family all silicon, with germanium transistors being in the past.
Your sneak view of the round PCB leaves further credencee to this being of a R2-D2 build.
Moreso . . . further in the background . . . .don't I see a yellow push toy that has its wheels depending on pop rivets for axles and hubs ?

PLUS . . . .didn't R2-D2 have a somewhat, quite limited vocal syllabus?

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-hey-you.wav

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-do.wav

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-yeah.mp3

With the last one, probably being WAY outside the capabilities of this simple 3 or 4 tone circuit


You now have two side by side comparisons of the boards component and foil sides, excepting a slight tapering and parallax effect, unable to be fully corrected for, from your camera having shot in from an angle, instead of being square / dead on..

I might guess that the other unshown circuit board might be related to some mechanics a ssociated with the unit . . .possibly even making this a rolling, motorized garbage can.

POINTS OF INTEREST . . . .

Top pic top left corner is showing the board section related to the audio amplification and audio output, being located within the FUCSIA Rectangle.
In a careful " reading " of the boards foil paths, it seems to reveal a cross coupled astable multiibrator oscillator circuit which would be the tone generator.Its using the two YELLOW and BLUE rectangular transistors.
That tone circuitry is being within the ROSY PINK rectangle. The RED arrow depicts a resistor that is connecting into the base of the YELLOW rectangular transistor.

The different RC constants to shift the osc frequency, seem to be connecting to the ORANGE wire, and I believe that the BROWN and YELLOW wires will also be related.
See if all 3 of these wires don't go up to the 3 or 4 ? leaf switches related to making the different tone / sound effects.

I think that fat GREEN poly cap will be associated with being their capacitive tuning element.

I believe that the R2-D2 tone spectrum is falling way y y y y y y y yl above 400~ and encroaching upon 1 Kh~.
( Over time, I have heard those 2 tones enough to hummmmmmmm within 5~of 400 within a few seconds or shriek / whistle within the same tolerance on the 1Khz tone..)

I placed the audio out transformer straddling a B+ line in order to not block the foil paths view to the left, as the BLACK arrow depicts . . . . it is actually being physically located, a like spacing to the left.

If those two transistors have a collector connected to each corner lead of the primary, it is likely to be a dual 500 or 600 ohm primary transformer and a 4 or 8 ohm seconary to the speaker . . . matching accordingly.

You see the transformer secondary top foil connecting to the GREEN wire which routes to the speaker voice coil.
The other transformer secondary wire goes to a foil which passes down and eventually grounds thru a low value resistor.
You might track down and measure that resistor, since it doesn't show on the component side for me. That inserted resistors value,going to ground, can affect the max.volume level attainable.

You see that series of ground foils marked as G!-G2-G3 across the center and around the board.and makes its input power connection as the white or grey wire at G2.

The RED circle is to remind you to look at all of the solder joints on the unit with a BRIGHT LIGHT, in case any floating leads have developed ; most that I saw, looked well soldered.

The companion POWER wire is marked as B+ and makes entry as the RED wire at the bottom as B+ and foils run to the left to power the osc and to the right edge of the board and upwards, and then over to the left to feed power to the audio output circuitry..
Now these simple audio amplifier of the past, with their circuits built up from discrete components , tended in earliest days to initially use an output transformer to interface with the speaker. Later on they would use a totem pole output stage of transistors and then choose to use a high value capacitor o couple to the speaker . . .no transformer involved.
One thing that tended to how up on that last circuitry design was the tendency of the audio to start to get mushy, along with an overall audio output level drop.
That typically always led to my finding, that with time, that the audio coupling cap to the speaker was dropping in capacitance. Changing it, brought all back to normal.
THIS is not being your situation.
HOWEVER . . . . . in this type of amplifier, it is being dependent upon a good filtering along with its resultant good decoupling to ground of the B+ supply.
I have certainly seen this type of amp that will . . . .squeeek . . .chirp . . .motor boat or fart on turn on or off, or at times of trying to run at high volume, where there is more power demand.
On your other circuitry board to the side, I see a BLUE 100 ufd at 10V that is the filtering medium on that board assembly.
On your audio / osc board, it is being the big BLUE cap in the corner.
If a filter is at fault, that would be my first suspect.
It doesn't even need to be pulled, just take a full lead length unit of that capacitance or even greater and temporary solder tack the proper polarity of leads across the installed unit . . .fire up and see if any results.
The two smaller cross coupled electro caps in the MV osc ckt are probably still good.

Be thinking of that procedure which you initially mentioned.
Do I have ? . . . . . a component type amplifier with RCA input connections /or guitar amp which I can connect an RCA patch cord with one end, stripped of its connector and then have that lines hot wire connected to a 0.1 ufd capacitor, so that you can trace for sound.
OR use a line output to feed audio into the R2-D2 units amp section .

Talk to me . . . .

MARK UPS . . . . .

73's de Edd
.....

 

[kellys_eye]

@Edd - you show the two speaker wires as effectively being shorted......(spk1 and spk2 via the trace).

 

[73's de Edd]

No that is merely the fact that I showed the GREEN speaker wire as being two connections, one, being where the speaker connects to a pad at the side of the PCB and then its traveling over to the secondary of the output transformer via a foil path.
The second speaker BLACK wire G1 connection is to a pad that takes a foil path over and down to the ground buss foil.
Harder to see . . . . is the second connection of the output transformers secondary, which goes down and has to pass thru a low value resistor to connect into the ground buss at G2.

 

[bigkim100]

EGADS SIR, youi are amazing.........You gave me a good idea, so I went off to you tube, and Ill be dammed, a sample of R2D2s Voice...which is basically 2 warbling tones, low and high, easily obtainable thru basic feedback..
It didnt come with a remote, but I finally found one, so as soon as I receive it.......Ill be getting back to this. I will replace the large blue cap while Im waiting.
I am truly hoping that the remote circuitry is in working order...as I dont want to get into RF stuff. Ill post pics of the rf section of the stupid thing.
I was told that Kenner was driven crazy by this toy, all boards were hand-soldered...with far too many interconnecting wires. Returns were a daily matter, and hundreds resided in boxes throughout the offices, waiting for the weekly dump run.
There is a huge sticker on the bottom saying: "This Is An Electronic Toy, DO NOT DROP"

 

[bigkim100]

Ok, here is the Rf board, I can take more.
The led is soldered across the wipers that usually connect into the dome
The Round motor is the Dome motor, the 2 square motors arte for the wheels in the legs
Want more pics....I will gratefully add

 

[bigkim100]

No that is merely the fact that I showed the GREEN speaker wire as being two connections, one, being where the speaker connects to a pad at the side of the PCB and then its traveling over to the secondary of the output transformer via a foil path.
The second speaker BLACK wire G1 connection is to a pad that takes a foil path over and down to the ground buss foil.
Harder to see . . . . is the second connection of the output transformers secondary, which goes down and has to pass thru a low value resistor to connect into the ground buss at G2.

Sir bigkim100 . . . . .

BEHOLD . . . submitted herewith . . .a full replotting and resubmission of your board photos, after anointing with Holy water and annotating with resplendently cryptic markings.

If this device is being chonoligically dated to R2-D2, it would have to be of post 1975-6.vintage.
Plus my observation of the transistor housings and particularly the inline rectangular ones are making this transistor family all silicon, with germanium transistors being in the past.
Your sneak view of the round PCB leaves further credencee to this being of a R2-D2 build.
Moreso . . . further in the background . . . .don't I see a yellow push toy that has its wheels depending on pop rivets for axles and hubs ?

PLUS . . . .didn't R2-D2 have a somewhat, quite limited vocal syllabus?

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-hey-you.wav

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-do.wav

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/starwars/R2D2-yeah.mp3

With the last one, probably being WAY outside the capabilities of this simple 3 or 4 tone circuit


You now have two side by side comparisons of the boards component and foil sides, excepting a slight tapering and parallax effect, unable to be fully corrected for, from your camera having shot in from an angle, instead of being square / dead on..

I might guess that the other unshown circuit board might be related to some mechanics a ssociated with the unit . . .possibly even making this a rolling, motorized garbage can.

POINTS OF INTEREST . . . .

Top pic top left corner is showing the board section related to the audio amplification and audio output, being located within the FUCSIA Rectangle.
In a careful " reading " of the boards foil paths, it seems to reveal a cross coupled astable multiibrator oscillator circuit which would be the tone generator.Its using the two YELLOW and BLUE rectangular transistors.
That tone circuitry is being within the ROSY PINK rectangle. The RED arrow depicts a resistor that is connecting into the base of the YELLOW rectangular transistor.

The different RC constants to shift the osc frequency, seem to be connecting to the ORANGE wire, and I believe that the BROWN and YELLOW wires will also be related.
See if all 3 of these wires don't go up to the 3 or 4 ? leaf switches related to making the different tone / sound effects.

I think that fat GREEN poly cap will be associated with being their capacitive tuning element.

I believe that the R2-D2 tone spectrum is falling way y y y y y y y yl above 400~ and encroaching upon 1 Kh~.
( Over time, I have heard those 2 tones enough to hummmmmmmm within 5~of 400 within a few seconds or shriek / whistle within the same tolerance on the 1Khz tone..)

I placed the audio out transformer straddling a B+ line in order to not block the foil paths view to the left, as the BLACK arrow depicts . . . . it is actually being physically located, a like spacing to the left.

If those two transistors have a collector connected to each corner lead of the primary, it is likely to be a dual 500 or 600 ohm primary transformer and a 4 or 8 ohm seconary to the speaker . . . matching accordingly.

You see the transformer secondary top foil connecting to the GREEN wire which routes to the speaker voice coil.
The other transformer secondary wire goes to a foil which passes down and eventually grounds thru a low value resistor.
You might track down and measure that resistor, since it doesn't show on the component side for me. That inserted resistors value,going to ground, can affect the max.volume level attainable.

You see that series of ground foils marked as G!-G2-G3 across the center and around the board.and makes its input power connection as the white or grey wire at G2.

The RED circle is to remind you to look at all of the solder joints on the unit with a BRIGHT LIGHT, in case any floating leads have developed ; most that I saw, looked well soldered.

The companion POWER wire is marked as B+ and makes entry as the RED wire at the bottom as B+ and foils run to the left to power the osc and to the right edge of the board and upwards, and then over to the left to feed power to the audio output circuitry..
Now these simple audio amplifier of the past, with their circuits built up from discrete components , tended in earliest days to initially use an output transformer to interface with the speaker. Later on they would use a totem pole output stage of transistors and then choose to use a high value capacitor o couple to the speaker . . .no transformer involved.
One thing that tended to how up on that last circuitry design was the tendency of the audio to start to get mushy, along with an overall audio output level drop.
That typically always led to my finding, that with time, that the audio coupling cap to the speaker was dropping in capacitance. Changing it, brought all back to normal.
THIS is not being your situation.
HOWEVER . . . . . in this type of amplifier, it is being dependent upon a good filtering along with its resultant good decoupling to ground of the B+ supply.
I have certainly seen this type of amp that will . . . .squeeek . . .chirp . . .motor boat or fart on turn on or off, or at times of trying to run at high volume, where there is more power demand.
On your other circuitry board to the side, I see a BLUE 100 ufd at 10V that is the filtering medium on that board assembly.
On your audio / osc board, it is being the big BLUE cap in the corner.
If a filter is at fault, that would be my first suspect.
It doesn't even need to be pulled, just take a full lead length unit of that capacitance or even greater and temporary solder tack the proper polarity of leads across the installed unit . . .fire up and see if any results.
The two smaller cross coupled electro caps in the MV osc ckt are probably still good.

Be thinking of that procedure which you initially mentioned.
Do I have ? . . . . . a component type amplifier with RCA input connections /or guitar amp which I can connect an RCA patch cord with one end, stripped of its connector and then have that lines hot wire connected to a 0.1 ufd capacitor, so that you can trace for sound.
OR use a line output to feed audio into the R2-D2 units amp section .

Talk to me . . . .

MARK UPS . . . . .

73's de Edd
.....

Oh, and I found out the age of this unit, Approximately...the copyright on it is 1978

 

[KJ6EAD]

Be gentle in your soldering efforts as this type of circuit board material (resin bonded paper) is notorious for pad popping.

 

[bigkim100]

Now the next big question is the remote working??, considering the Geranium diode, I can guess that its AM

 

[KJ6EAD]

Geranium is a genus of 422 species of flowering plants. Germanium is a metalloid chemical element sometimes used to produce electronic components.

One of these things is not like the other.

 

[FuZZ1L0G1C]

Leaf switches could be some oxidization on contacts - spray with Servisol (etc) contact-cleaner.
As KE suggested, try replacing caps, especially if bulging dome syndrome or leaking is found.
If you have spare caps of equal value lying around, first try temporarily paralleling each one across its on-board twin, and the misbehaving one may suddenly reveal itself.

 

[73's de Edd]

Sir bigkim100 . . . . . . aka . . .The " KIMSTER"

Your more incoming info. . . . . means the capability to then analyze it more fully and give you even more related analytical feedback.

I have seen one of your missing transmitter units, with its lil' piano wire whip antenna .
Look at the mark up photo and you can see the area within the base section that is marked with the RED rectangle.
That is being the receiver section of the unit. It is composed with the RED rectangular transistor that is being configured as a super regenerative detector AM receiver.
For tuning, it uses the RED marked up, side by side, variable inductively tuned coil and a companion disc ceramic capacitor. By the wire gauge, coil form, turn count along with the spacing to the tuning slug, there is a VERY HIGH probability that this definitely operates on a slot within the license free 27Mhz citizens band, vice the later forthcoming 49MHZ and even later VHF and UHF spectrums.

The receiver sections detected output then feeds to the area within the YELLOW rectangle which then interfaces into the BLUE rectangles motor driver control section with its 2SD467 and 2SB561 transistor sets.
I potentially see three small motors and their reductive gear trains . Two for propulsion and one to spin the dome.

INSERT:
I would have to see connecting foil paths to that sole mentioned diode in the YELLOW / BLUE rectangle crossovere area to explain it,that areas foil is ALL covered with wires, close dressed to the board . ( So that they don't snag on the rotating dome above it.) BUT that diode is being FAR from the receiver portion . . .and assuredly being dissociative of it . . . and an extremely low probability of being of the germanium family.
Flipping a photo down, to the foil side of the board, there is the RED star connection of the receiver input to the other RED star designated serpentine foil etched antenna / aerial.
Its limited length is making it far- far- far short of a sub multiple wavelength at 27 Mhz, with any assistance probably being provided by a series inserted loading inductance.
The spread out spiral / serpentine pattern helps in giving it somewhat of an omnidirectional pickup pattern.
Its for sure that the Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene outer housing did not receive a hot stamped silver mylar coating, as that certainly would have shielded antenna reception within.

Now for some aspects of the second photo down, there are the 4 pressure commutator leaf spring contacts that are now being marked with RED squares.
This was back when they spent a little money to have the . . .suspected . . .phospor bronze contact areas . . . . being silver flashed.
You can see that it has now degraded to having one healthy and heavy BLACK coating of AGO₂ on their prior plated areas.
Looks like they spent a little more money on the RED "A" boards top left corner, where a tiny bit of gold flash coating peeks out from the solder blob..
Its highly visible at the bottom of the RED "A" , and a bit shows at the top edge of the white break out wire tab..

ASIDE . . .
Looks like you might need to hit up Mamma Cass's dresser drawer and commandeer some of her Lady Eleanor silver polish cream to chemically clean those oxidized contacts, and buff back to a SHINY silver.
OR
Commandeer some of the ADMIRALS Brasso to clean them with.
OR
Commandeer one of great Aunt Nelly's typewriter erasers to erase off the oxide and clean the surfaces.
(What's a typewriter ? much less . . .there's a specific ? eraser made to be used with their type ?)

Now is where you will have to analyze and fill me in.
There are RED B and C pressure contacts with their domed contact points and spring pressure from their leaf type construction.
All of these above details can easily be made out on the C contact, but the RED LED's placement obscures the RED B's contact dome. (Plus, in handling, it seems like the LED has ended up with it being askew from a right angle placement to the board )
Considering that there is a round PCB associated with the top rotating dome I perceive of that LED sticking straight up so that it then locates itself within a spiral circular slot cut within that PCB, so that the PCB disc can freely rotate around the stationary leaded LED.

Reflected light is making the leaf position of B hard to see, but that contacts spacing up from the board below it should be the same as is C and all of the springed contacts of "A" assembly. They all then press into their contact areas to the PCB foils concentric contactor circles.

UNITS CONCEPT OF OPERATION . . . .(as is being perceived)

I suspect that the top dome is having its separate round PCB and a motor that permits the rotation of the dome.
Its power is being routed in thru the B and C contacts that are pressing into two separately spaced concentric spiral rings that have been etched onto the copper foil of the domes round PCB. That gets power transferred into the PCB and can feed in reversible polarity voltage to permit having a rotational motor, fed from a transistor driver circuit on the lower board. Therewith, it can then rotate in either direction, all in accordance to the end rotational limits designed within, and how you manipulate the remotes buttons..
I would suspect a couple of those ferrite dumbbell RFI chokes and green poly caps seen on the PCB, to be associated with quenching motor brush generated Radio Frequency Interference.


I can see the 4 contacts of A assembly also aligned and pressed into its mating 4 concentric rings, also etched into the PCB of the rotational dome.
Those ring contact areas are broken up into small partial copper segments that can create connects between different spring leaf contacts, thus the changing tones, all in accordance to the domes rotational position, or where it comes to rest, if being stopped..

Now what I finally really -really think, is that there is being no problem with your suspect audio and and tone generator circuitry. The audio amp section is just setting there dormant, with no audio output into it, possibly excepting at power turn on with a feeble noise.
It is THEN being dependent on DC triggering of the astable monostable multivibrator tone circuitry which I described earlier, then the audio emits.

OBSERVATIONS . . .
You see the very bottom left pic inset, YELLOW squares, I am wondering if the round chromed fluted extrusion might be the power switch for the unit ? Plus the nearby LED might be a power on indicator.

Lastly . . . . your caution stickers. . . .just to the right. TELL that to a 2 year old that grabs it.

Thassssssssit . . . . .

PHOTO MARKUPS . . . . .

73's de Edd
.....

 

[bigkim100]

Geranium is a genus of 422 species of flowering plants. Germanium is a metalloid chemical element sometimes used to produce electronic components.

One of these things is not like the other.

Oh har de har har

 

[bigkim100]

-I have a remote now, I know it works because placing it near a AM radio gives me static when I press the button
-I have the BEEPING going from the amp-this was caused by a common ground bridge falling out when I soldered a new battery connecter onto the switch...stupid stupid stupid!!!
-I have now the LED that is in the dome working
-I have temporarily soldered a led onto the board where the Wipers are that connect to the led inside the dome.
-I have now figured out that the 4 sorta "Reed Switches" on the Board are connected to one side of each of the 3 motors, (2 in the body legs , one for the dome) thus when the dome is turned, indentations press on the "Reed Switches" activating them

This LEADS ME TO BELIEVE that it is just the switching "Transistors" may be burned out that drive each motor.

BTW< thanks for all the work.

KIM

 

[bigkim100]

Ok, referencing to ED's pix and comments:

Just as I read and digest what you are saying, I will comment, as my tiny brain cannot do otherwise
The Black :BLOBS" that you see on what I call the "Reed Switches" are actually black plastic "Slippers" molded on to allow the ends not to scrape or catch as the dome rotates against them, pushing them down, or releasing them.
The actual contact of the the 4 conatcts is under the metal bar, and I have given them a good cleaning.

 

[bigkim100]

1. 
   
   
   
   
   
2. The small "Smoke Stack" inside the yellow box is just decorative, and matches the original in the film. The small red dot that you have also pointed out is simply painted on.
   The LED actually has 2 wipers (that I have Tak-Soldered a LED to) that match with 2 metal rings on the base of the dome. If you look at the commercial, you will see the led barely glowing thru R2's eye.
   
   I am now seriously thinking that its the drivers for each of the motors.
3. In one of the pics you can see the trace that the wipers have to illuminate the LED.
   You can also see the "raised tracks" that push down on the 4 switches

 

[bigkim100]

OK, so I do have the Amplifier working and squawking away.
I replaced the speaker with a 16 ohm plastic cone unit, and holy crap...its LOUD!!!!.

Should I just go Bat Shit Crazy, and just replace every single stinking Transistor (AND Darlington) in the motor Driver circuitry ????!!!!.......

Looking at the commercial, as well as the design, 2 small motors are slogging around this big, heavy piece of plastic, I can well imagine a motor or 2 getting caught up in the edge of a carpet, or a crack in the floor and blowing whatever is driving them.

If...and when I get this thing working, maybe suppliment the drivers with something a bit more hearty...like a Mosfet in the BUZ catagory???????????????.

 

[bigkim100]

One thing about this stupid unit is that all the interconnecting wires are VERY fine, finer than any other project Ive worked on, and when one comes off of a connection there is NO RECONNECTING WITH IT. The wires are impossible to strip, and when you are able to strip them, you get almost a "Rusted: set of wires that when you attempt to scrape them turn into dust. Ive worked on a lot of old stuff, and never found this kinda crap.
Ive spent a lotta time just replacing interconnecting wires.
Geeze...its no wonder that ever single unit that Ive seen of this toy is dead as a doorknob.
I think that this unit sold for around 50 bucks back in the 70's, you would have expected a bit better workmanship than this.

 

[bigkim100]

Ok so to basically wrap up what has been done so far:

-BEEPING IS WORKING
-LED IN DOME WORKING
-1 LEG MOTOR IS NOW WORKING- after replacing its interconnecting wires. I have reaplaced all interconnecting wires now.

 

[73's de Edd]

Sooooooooooo the dome is not as sophisticated as I described it.
Plus the motor shaft passes thru the central board hole, for its shaft o engage into the dome .
The rotary rings ARE there to transfer rotary Led connectivity to the dome.
The BLACK plastic " slippers" appeared just like black oxidized silver.
The two sets of two raised tracks press the springed switches plus I fully expect each side that press into the common " A"
Bar to have each one being gold flashed , such as I have already mentioned, having been seen on the bars treatment, itself.
DON'T erode off that thin flash coating with any too aggressive cleaning pressure.
IF required, the volume could be decreased by increasing the resistance of that obscured resistor that I mentioned, which is being in that output transformer secondary path to ground, and I can only see its lead tips showing thru the PCB, with its then soldered ends.
Let me explain the motor driver solution on the next forthcoming post, by using just what they originally used.

73's de Edd
.....