Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Sound triggered LED project

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
Hi everyone, how's it going?
I am an art student and I know pretty much nothing about electronics :( But recently I am super interested in it. That's why I want to put an LED circuit on a sculpture that I'm working on. The leds will also pulse to music. Here's the idea GIF
BjeKYPS.gif

direct link in case it doesn't show up http://i.imgur.com/BjeKYPS.gif

it's a neuron cell, the leds show the pulse that goes through it. I found many tuts online but they only showed how to build a circuit with a couple leds.
Thanks guys
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
How will it pulse to the music?
This can easily be built with discrete components with a 555 timer and some decade counters, but the music pulse thing may complicate it.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
You can get 15 outputs from a PIC16F628 is that enough?
Yes and No. Depends on the exact functions you want.
Using all of the IOs on a PIC can allow you to multiplex 56 channels. (56 LEDs, or groups)
You will need to spend some time programming the PIC so that it can manipulate each led by toggling a unique combination of pins. You can make it appear that all LEDs are lit by very very quickly flashing multiple LEDs. Sorry if you understand multiplexing already, but it helps sometimes to recap.
This would be the ideal solution to make your LEDs flash or pulse with music depending on the patterns you want for music.
Other than that, the animation you posted is extremely simple and can be made with discrete components which would allow the LEDs to be controlled individually and not require being multiplexed.

So, I ask you:
-Do you want to keep the electronics simpler, but complicate code,
or
-Do you want to make the electronics a little more complex and forget about coding?

(Pulsing... or triggering the synaps to fire on a beat from music can be done with discrete components too. More complex animations would require the PIC)
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
Thanks Gryd3 for replying. What I want to do is very similar to this instructable http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-LED-Volume-Towers-VU-meters/?ALLSTEPS
But instead of putting the LEDs on a tower, I want to put them all around my neuron model to show the pulse going through. That's the topic I'm working on "Mind taken over by music". I dont know electrics, so when I look at the circuit board in the tutorial I dont understand a thing. I can only follow the steps that show how to link the LEDs together. I dont think I need to include a pack of batteries like the tut shows, just plug to the wall or something. I also need an amplifier or anything that increases the volume, there's also a jack that is plugged into a phone or mp3.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
ahh... so you are looking for two completely different functions.
One function is as your animated picture shows with LEDs lighting from one side to the other, and the other function is a VU meter.
I can help you with the wiring, but I don't have the skills to write the code responsible for a PIC to behave like a VU meter... at least not without some more research.
If it were one or the other, it could be quite easily built with basic components. The fact you want both complicates things, at least from my perspective.

You may need to pull someone else into this thread who has more PIC/microcontroller experience.
Your project is doable, but currently is above my head ;)
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
All I want is the LEDs behaving like the GIF above when I plug the audio jack to my phone and play some music. Of course the LED bar will go high when volume is high...go low when volume is low. After a week researching the topic(still no result:eek:) I tend to lean toward using LM3914 or LM3916. Just like a typical VU meter but instead of lying on a flat surface, the LEDs scatter across the sculpture's surface. I think I will chain a bunch of those because I need tons of LEDs to cover the whole sculpture. Is coding required if I use one of those ic? Does chaining many of them increase the number of LEDs? and is it possible?
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
I must have misunderstood.
I thought you wanted it to do as the picture does normally, then change when you plug in an audio jack..
Chaining multiple LM3914s together is possible, and is quite easy to do.
Take a look at the data sheet, as it will show you an example of how to chain them together.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm3914.pdf

These chips will allow a dot or bar display... bar display will light all of the LEDs from the left hand side towards the right as the music plays... or dot mode will only light a single LED or group that travels back and forth along the neuron with the music.
No microcontroller is required. You can use an many LEDs as you want (few or little)
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
hoho I also have that file :D but the thing is I dont know anything it says. It would be much easier for me if everything was drawn on paper telling me what needs to be connected to what...pictures instead of just symbols. I know I'm being annoying asking for help to do this thing when I'm totally ignorant. But I really want to get it done. And they only show how to connect 2 LM3914, I need way more than that. I just want to know how to connect like 10 or more of them with some simple explanation. Thanks
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
Do you want it in dot or bar mode?
Do you have any electronics knowledge? Do you have any test equipment?
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
...I want bar mode for the model. Yes I do have basic understanding of electricity but whats going on is too much for me. I cant even read a diagram. I have some equipments, but what exactly do i need? I'm willing to purchase stuff because this project is important, I want to get it done.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
OK, just to clarify, the picture is 'dot mode', I want to make sure.
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
ok ok things are now a little less complicated. I found this
PE29YZr.jpg

I want to keep 2 channels just like that but increase the number of LEDs to around 150-200 leds. Number of led on each channel may be different. I also found an amplifier/speaker thingy from an old electric organ that I want to connect to the circuit to make the music louder when played from my phone/laptop/mp3 so how do i do that? the leds i am going to use are 3mm, 3V-4,2V. Thanks for reading. Hope someone can help :oops:
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
We can help but we need to nail down 'exactly' what you want your LEDs to do.
When we started, I thought you wanted your project to trace through the neuron exactly like the gif provided, but also have the LEDs pulse to the music. Notice I used a couple words there. Trace would have the LEDs move across the neuron, and pulse would have them all flash or fade either all together or in a pattern.

Then seemed like we changed that to be a music function only that would be designed like a horizontal UV meter, which would not behave like the gif.
You confused me a little when you said you want the VU meter to operate in 'bar mode' because that is even more different from what I thought your original request was.
You now post an LED beat box schematic which would simply flash all of the LEDs on and off if the music played to it is loud enough. (Which is a very poor design, but we can help with that)

There are at least 5 different ways to light up these LEDs that have been discussed so far for your neuron. Please sit down and think about exactly how you want the lights to behave.
-Trace across the neuron by itself. (Exactly like the image posted)
-Trace across the neuron. Triggered by music beats.
-Dot mode VU meter. Trace back and forth across the neuron to the music. VU meter in dot mode. Will start at one side and slide to the other and back as music playes.
-Bar mode VU meter. Begin lighting LEDs and 'leave' them lit as you move from one side of the neuron to the other and back to the music.
-Light up ALL leds to the beat of the music. (No patterns or movements, just all on or all off. You can have a different group of light for the L and R audio channel)
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
Of course I know what I want but time is running out and we have not reached any solution so I decided to change it a little bit by working with something simpler than the original idea that way you guys will have an easier time helping a noob like me and it's also easier for me to build:oops: Only 1 and half week left till due day. AND one big thing I realize is that if I built it as a vu there would be time when the volume is low, the led bar is low too. That happens quite frequently in Vu meter and is not suitable for a Neuron since signals always travel in a complete cycle from dendrites to synapses. Hope I' m making sense :/ so the GiF idea in the beginning is accurately what I want but I don't think it can be achieved if made pulse to music...right? Because there will always be highs and lows...lows don't complete the cycle from head to toes. so so so so...the only choice left is to make the whole thing beat to music :p But with 2 channels there seems to be a short delay, i watched kipkay tut on YouTube..not sure if it's true or just the camera though. So can you help me with that circuit?
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
Of course I know what I want but time is running out and we have not reached any solution so I decided to change it a little bit by working with something simpler than the original idea that way you guys will have an easier time helping a noob like me and it's also easier for me to build:oops: Only 1 and half week left till due day. AND one big thing I realize is that if I built it as a vu there would be time when the volume is low, the led bar is low too. That happens quite frequently in Vu meter and is not suitable for a Neuron since signals always travel in a complete cycle from dendrites to synapses. Hope I' m making sense :/ so the GiF idea in the beginning is accurately what I want but I don't think it can be achieved if made pulse to music...right? Because there will always be highs and lows...lows don't complete the cycle from head to toes. so so so so...the only choice left is to make the whole thing beat to music :p But with 2 channels there seems to be a short delay, i watched kipkay tut on YouTube..not sure if it's true or just the camera though. So can you help me with that circuit?
How about this:
Look at the picture above. The Neuron signal passes from the dendrites to synapses. What if it's triggered on every beat.
The LEDs will always travel the same speed along the neuron, but it will fire fewer times with music with a lower tempo, and will fire more often with a higher tempo song.
It would be an easy build, some shift registers, a 555 timer, and a circuit to detect beats from audio.
The tricky part of the build will be the beat detection, then the 555 timer. The easiest part will be the LEDs and shift registers...
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
Ow wow that sounds great! But is there any coding required? Doesn't sound easy at all o_O It would be so awesome if I could do that on my sculpture. Only thing is the circuit should be like the kipkay one...with images:D Not symbols so that I can follow.
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
Ow wow that sounds great! But is there any coding required? Doesn't sound easy at all o_O It would be so awesome if I could do that on my sculpture. Only thing is the circuit should be like the kipkay one...with images:D Not symbols so that I can follow.
No programming required. The circuit will consist of 3 major parts:
-Portion of a 'Light Organ' Circuit that will be used to 'trigger' the neuron. Can be tested with a single LED.
-A 555 Timer to generate a 'clock' we can use as a timer to make the LEDs travel along the neuron.
-Shift Registers... these do the actual magic 'moving'...


I have 3 reference videos for you to show you what each part is.
We will not be using them exactly the same in the video.
What happens is this...
The first video is the light organ... you can see 3 colors of LEDs there... we will only build 1/3rd of that circuit, and instead of LEDs we will feed that into the shift register.
The second video shows how a shift register works. You give it a signal (on or off) and give it a 'clock', every time the clock ticks, it moves the signal to the next pin (Think of it like a conveyor belt). These parts can be daisy chained together to allow you to use as many LEDs as you want.
The third video is a simple 555 timer making an LED blink. This is the timer keeper, and you can make it tick as fast or as slow as you want. This clock will dictate how long it takes for the signal to travel from one end to the other of your neuron. (This can be adjusted after it is built)


I'm going to send a PM to an admin and see if I can get the title changed to reflect the project you are building if you are ok with that.
Do you have a source nearby to purchase electronic components?
Your going to need, at least one Opamp.
Some resistors, very few capacitors.
Shift registers (qty, depends on how many leds you want)
LEDs (of course ;))
Transistors. (I noticed on the picture, that the ends of the neuron have more LEDs that light up at the same time than the middle sections... to allow a single pin on a shift register to light up more than one LED at a time, we need to use a transistor)

In the mean time, can you please sit down and draw out exactly how you want your project put together.
What I want to see is:
-How many LEDs
-Which LEDs will be grouped together (I see in the picture, that each end has a large group, and the middle segments are simply grouped in pairs.)
-If you want the neuron split in half so that sounds from the left speaker light up a different path than the right. (This will double the component count required... stick to mono to keep it simple)
 

Gryd3

Jun 25, 2014
4,098
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,098
@softtissue
Seeing as you liked that post, can I assume you will be providing a some details for me?
Or shall I put together a generic diagram for you to build what I described?
 

softtissue

Sep 17, 2014
26
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
26
OK if we can do like what you described...then we dont have to follow the kipkay circuit. The GIF is my ultimate goal. But its not like leds are on 1 side...they will cover the whole surface of the sculpture
What I have here is a rough structure of the build...it looks kinda like human sperm cell right now without the dendrites and synapses :rolleyes:
T7IDy2N.jpg
nCA8uCu.jpg


What Im thinking is we can chain the leds in strings, each string go from 1 dendrite to 1 synapse (indicated by different color) we will have from 5 to 8 strings like that to go around the sculpture. Or if you have any better idea that allows lower number of leds but still bright enough we will do it! trying to save some money on leds...oh each string i think will have from 50 to 60 ledso_O What do you think? what important is all the dendrites have to light up at the same time and when light reaches synapses, the synapses light up at the same time also.
 
Top