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soldering to nichrome wire

J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

Nichrome used for heating is usually welded, not soldered,
because the operating temperature is usually above solder
melting point. However, if the solder joint is well heat
sunk by the copper side of the joint, you might be able to
use a high melting temperature solder.

Once the nichrome has been red hot for some time, it forms a
very tough oxide coating that makes either welding or
soldering very difficult unless the oxide is removed.

I would try cleaning one surface with very fine silicon
carbide sand paper (600 grit or finer) and silver solder
with silver solder flux. This will require the heat of a
butane or propane torch. If you don't require the
temperature capability of silver solder, you can tin the
nichrome with it, and then use low temperature tin lead
solder to attach that surface to copper.
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

TIA,
Joe
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

TIA,
Joe
Silver solder it.
you'll need a mini torch or a very hot iron!
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster.

You can't. Crimped or bolted connections are the way to go.
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
John, Jamie, Homer,

Thank you all for the ideas. I should have realized that nichrome gets hot
when current runs thru it and would probly melt the solder anyway.

Well, I have several ideas now, so I can proceed. Thank you all very much
for the suggestions.

Joe
 
A

Arlet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

I read that you can solder nichrome by using hydrochloric acid as a
flux. Never tried it myself though. Be sure to wear goggles, if you
want to try.
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read that you can solder nichrome by using hydrochloric acid as a
flux. Never tried it myself though. Be sure to wear goggles, if you
want to try.

Never seen it used. Spot welding, crimping or bolting are the only methods I
have ever seen. I assume the OP can't use spot welding.
 
J

john jardine

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

TIA,
Joe

Nichrome, steel, piano wire, plated washers, bowden cabling etc, (i.e just
about anything except Aluminium) is easy to solder using an 'active' flux.
In UK it's bought as 'Bakers fluid' or 'killed spirits'.Basically
Hydrochloric acid that has spent itself while corroding zinc. Cheap and
effective but acidic, so needs a good washing off after use.
john
 
K

Kurt Krueger

Jan 1, 1970
0
john said:
Nichrome, steel, piano wire, plated washers, bowden cabling etc, (i.e just
about anything except Aluminium) is easy to solder using an 'active' flux.
In UK it's bought as 'Bakers fluid' or 'killed spirits'.Basically
Hydrochloric acid that has spent itself while corroding zinc. Cheap and
effective but acidic, so needs a good washing off after use.
john

In the states it's just called Zinc-Chloride. Usually sold in a paste
form.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
In the states it's just called Zinc-Chloride. Usually sold in a paste
form.

Is that the same stuff in sunscreen? And/or Desenex? ;-)

Thanks!
Rich
 
J

Joe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Homer J Simpson said:
Never seen it used. Spot welding, crimping or bolting are the only methods
I have ever seen. I assume the OP can't use spot welding.

Right you are, I never spot welded anything. And Hydrochloric acid (sold
around here as muriatic acid 30% solution) I wouldn't take a chance with. I
don't like playing with acids or stuff that is tooo dangerous (at least
IMHO). I am just using alligator clips. Cheap, easy, safe, simple.
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Right you are, I never spot welded anything. And Hydrochloric acid (sold
around here as muriatic acid 30% solution) I wouldn't take a chance with.
I don't like playing with acids or stuff that is tooo dangerous (at least
IMHO). I am just using alligator clips. Cheap, easy, safe, simple.

I've used acid flux but you really need to clean carefully after using it. I
wouldn't use HCL.
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe wrote:
(snip)
And Hydrochloric acid (sold
around here as muriatic acid 30% solution) I wouldn't take a chance with. I
don't like playing with acids or stuff that is tooo dangerous (at least
IMHO). I am just using alligator clips. Cheap, easy, safe, simple.

Go to the plumbing section of your local hardware store or
Home Depot and look for plumbers flux (essentially Vaseline
and zinc chloride). A little solvent like paint thinner or
naptha is handy to remove the greasy residue after
soldering. This will make most soft solders stick to lots
of metals.

But I use a fluoride based slurry flux for silver soldering.
Much more aggressive at cleaning stainless steel (which is
basically what nichrome is).
 
A

Arlet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

Multicore has a couple of types of solder wire with aggressive fluxes,
also available through Farnell. Their "Arax acid" is claimed to be
suitable for brass, bronze, iron, spring steel and resistance wire.
They also have an "AluSol" product for aluminium, but they say it
solders virtually all metals, including stainless steel.

Make sure you clean the flux residue really well.
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Joe wrote:
(snip)


Go to the plumbing section of your local hardware store or
Home Depot and look for plumbers flux (essentially Vaseline
and zinc chloride). A little solvent like paint thinner or
naptha is handy to remove the greasy residue after
soldering. This will make most soft solders stick to lots
of metals.

But I use a fluoride based slurry flux for silver soldering.
Much more aggressive at cleaning stainless steel (which is
basically what nichrome is).

Every heard of Ruby Fluid?
I know a guy who uses that for soldering badges on antique Harley gas
tanks.
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
kell said:
Every heard of Ruby Fluid?
I know a guy who uses that for soldering badges on antique Harley gas
tanks.

Nope.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Popelish wrote in part:
Go to the plumbing section of your local hardware store or
Home Depot and look for plumbers flux (essentially Vaseline
and zinc chloride). A little solvent like paint thinner or
naptha is handy to remove the greasy residue after
soldering. This will make most soft solders stick to lots
of metals.

But I use a fluoride based slurry flux for silver soldering.
Much more aggressive at cleaning stainless steel (which is
basically what nichrome is).

I have tried all kinds of things and gotten nichrome really clean, and
usually 60/40 solder will still not wet it. But I have a trick that does
work: Wet the metal with braze (get a torch and a brazing rod). You can
grind or file down any blobs in the braze if you end up with an any.
60/40 solder easily sticks to braze. If silver solder sticks (instead of
using braze), then 60/40 should stick to that.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
K

kell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joe said:
I am trying to solder copper wire (tinned) to nichrome ribbon (more like
wire, but wider), which I took from an old toaster. The nichrome ribbon
doesn't seem to like the solder. Is there a trick to this? Or should I be
doing something to the nichrome before I try to solder it? On the toaster I
dismantled, I noticed it was soldered to some thick copper conductors, so I
didn't think it would be a problem. I even crimped the ends of both, hooked
them together, and soldered them. After a time I picked up the connection
and it fell apart. Any advice or help is appreciated.

TIA,
Joe

http://www.firefox-fx.com/misc.htm

"RUBY FLUID SOLDERING FLUX - ZINC CHLORIDE SOLUTION

"Easy to use zinc chloride solution flux for any soldering job;
plumbing, electronics,
brazing, etc. Absolutely necessary when soldering nichrome wire - paste
flux
won't do the job!"

Disclaimer -- I've never used this stuff.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
kell said:
http://www.firefox-fx.com/misc.htm

"RUBY FLUID SOLDERING FLUX - ZINC CHLORIDE SOLUTION

"Easy to use zinc chloride solution flux for any soldering job;
plumbing, electronics,
brazing, etc. Absolutely necessary when soldering nichrome wire - paste
flux
won't do the job!"

Disclaimer -- I've never used this stuff.


Very corrosive, and hard to remove from the joint when you are
finished. It was used to solder copper gutters and pipe together.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
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