Solar PV comparable to gas fired power stations

[Sylvia Else]

I agree. In fact, my understanding is that aircraft communications often
still uses regular old AM specifically because doubling (two
simultaneous transmissions) on AM has a far better chance of still being
intelligible (you hear both tranismissions) vs. FM (where either both
parties end up obliterated or the capture effect just gets you the
stronger guy) or digital modulation schemes.

It also degrades gradually in adverse conditions, and the occurence of
doubling is (I believe) usually obvious, and can be immediately addressed.

One can imagine more complex schemes that would eliminate doubling, but
more complex systems can just die suddenly and completely - just what
you don't want in ATC.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Wait, wasn't nuclear supposed to be so cheap that it wouldn't be worth
metering it?

Yes, but I think that claims was made by scientists who did not
understand economics, and thought that operating cost was all that mattered.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Ach! I seem to be missing posts again.

For this to make economic sense, solar power has to cost less than the
*operating cost* for gas powered stations, so that you install a solar
power system because its capital cost is more than offset by the
reduction in fuel, wear and maintenance of the gas plant.

Solar power would have to be *very* cheap for that to work.

Sylvia.

 

[Basil Jet]

Why are all the cool breakthroughs a decade or two away?

And why is it that actual breakthroughs weren't predicted 10 or 20
years in advance?

Geosynchronous communication satellites were predicted by Arthur C
Clarke in 1945.. the first was launched in 1964.

The iPad spec is remarkably similar to a spec for the perfect computer
drawn up by someone in approximately 1990.

 

[[email protected]]

Keeping it warm enough to flow is a problem. Liquid tungsten is
slightly denser, but much harder to melt. Platinum is appreciably
denser - 19.77 gm/cc - and while it melts at 1763.3C, which is higher
than you'd need for gold - 1064.18C - it is cooler than you'd need for
tungsten.

Why would the mass need to be liquid ?

Just build an electric railway up to a high plateau. During the night
run the trains loaded with some heavy material (such as depleted
uranium) up to the high plateau. During the day, let the same trains
return down using regenerative breaking .

In order to keep the air resistance at manageable levels, the train
can not go very fast, so the track would have to be pretty steep.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

---
My disagreement with those of your opinions which I choose to contest
and my having no compunction about contesting them critically is no
more going "ballistic" than is your narcissistic claim of my being
"fixated" with you because I choose to confront you when I think
you're wrong.

Is that a northern version of San Francisco?

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Ach! I seem to be missing posts again.


For this to make economic sense, solar power has to cost less than the
*operating cost* for gas powered stations, so that you install a solar
power system because its capital cost is more than offset by the
reduction in fuel, wear and maintenance of the gas plant.

Solar power would have to be *very* cheap for that to work.

Sylvia.

The price IIRC is dropping around 16% a year.
And there seems to be no lower bound visible.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Why are all the cool breakthroughs a decade or two away?

They aren't.
If you keep your eye on PV you will see it happening week by week.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Geosynchronous communication satellites were predicted by Arthur C
Clarke in 1945.. the first was launched in 1964.

The iPad spec is remarkably similar to a spec for the perfect computer
drawn up by someone in approximately 1990.

And used in Star Trek some decades previously, along with clamshell
cellphones.

 

[[email protected]]

Ooops. Just testing to see if anyone is awake.
Dinorwig manages nearly 1.6GW and is 12s to full load.

http://www.fhc.co.uk/dinorwig.htm

71-75% efficiency? Didn't someone here claim 90%?

 

[[email protected]]

Well then, let's pump gold. It's denser, and it saves money. ;-)

Pump greenbacks. We already have that pump "primed", or so we're told.

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote in


consider the LOSSES and what they do to system efficiency.

Just guard the gold more heavily when it's at the top of the mountain.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 07:35:11 -0800 (PST), the renowned

The losses could be pretty low.

Why not have personal storage units per home? Why, 1 ton hoisted a
mere 1.5km stores about 4KWHr, half a day's usage for most. If the
mile-high tower's a problem, 100 tons hoisted just 15m will do.
That's what, a mother-in-law + a house? (not necessarily in that
order).

If people could be convinced to plug their electric cars in while the
sun is shining you might have a way to pay for all that stuff in every
house. The storage issue is not an easy one to beat.

Maybe a combination of nuclear (base demand), geothermal (night) and
solar (day) would do it.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Actually, it sounds like you are really messed up.

How many manly boys have you sired?

Enough of the euphemisms...

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

[email protected] wrote innews:[email protected]:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:16:21 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
Keeping [gold] warm enough to flow is a problem. Liquid tungsten is
slightly denser, but much harder to melt. Platinum is appreciably
denser - 19.77 gm/cc - and while it melts at 1763.3C, which is higher
than you'd need for gold - 1064.18C - it is cooler than you'd need for
tungsten.

Why would the mass need to be liquid ?

Just build an electric railway up to a high plateau. During the night
run the trains loaded with some heavy material (such as depleted
uranium) up to the high plateau. During the day, let the same trains
return down using regenerative breaking .

In order to keep the air resistance at manageable levels, the train
can not go very fast, so the track would have to be pretty steep.

consider the LOSSES and what they do to system efficiency.

The losses could be pretty low.

Why not have personal storage units per home? Why, 1 ton hoisted a
mere 1.5km stores about 4KWHr, half a day's usage for most. If the
mile-high tower's a problem, 100 tons hoisted just 15m will do.
That's what, a mother-in-law + a house? (not necessarily in that
order).

If people could be convinced to plug their electric cars in while the
sun is shining you might have a way to pay for all that stuff in every
house. The storage issue is not an easy one to beat.

For storage you could use a giant thermal mass. That evens out the
home heating / cooling load, handling the peak demand problem, it's
cheap, and it doesn't wear out. No need to strip the Andes of all
their lithium either--save that for cars.

Maybe a combination of nuclear (base demand), geothermal (night) and
solar (day) would do it.

That sounds like a decent mix for the power. On the other side of the
equation, use sensible construction (passive solar, insulation, eaves,
passive airflow, cool roofs, etc.) to minimize demand.

Those techniques vary dramatically from place to place. This means
we'll need centralized planning. ;-)

Here's is how PV cells are now made:

Now this is how they should be made:

Think there is room for some price reductions in PV?
_______


"The lowest retail price for a multicrystalline silicon solar module is
$1.85 per watt (€1.35 per watt) from an Asian retailer. The lowest
retail price for a monocrystalline silicon module is also $2.29 per watt
(€1.67 per watt), from a US retailer. Brand, technical attributes and
certifications do matter. The lowest thin film module price is at $1.30
per watt (€0.95 per watt) from a United States-based retailer. As a
general rule, it is typical to expect thin film modules to be at a price
discount to crystalline silicon (for like module powers). This thin film
price is represented by a 60 watt module.

The other types of module prices that are often talked about are factory
gate (module manufacturer to wholesaler or large customer) and wholesale
prices (wholesaler to dealer) - both of these are much lower prices than
displayed on this page. Researching these prices is undertaken by
Solarbuzz under a completely separate data sourcing methodology.
_______

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

You do, obviously. Very much.

John

---
What I was referring to was that, as far as I know, no one cares
whether or not you like Philadelphia or cheese steaks.

I certainly don't [care], and the only reason you think anyone might
is because you're narcissistic enough to think that the stink of your
shit is something everyone should be subjected to, and fawn over, in
order to gain favor from you.

Maybe you need to get on facebook or one of the other social networks
where the minutiae of the lives of insignificant contributors is de
riguere?

Bwuahahahahaha!

Flawless! Spot on!

You are right. *that* IS where he ehould be.

Myself? I have enjoyed NO cell phone for the last 7 years. By the
time I do ever get one again, they will be at a better monthly rate if
any of the flock followers ever get any brains about themselves. No way
would I participate in that inane "social network" crap. That is why
Usenet should remain. There are over 43,000 specific (or general)groups,
providing for very easy, focused problem resolution, etc. Not so much
about anything 'social'.

Remember, these are the same dopes that pay $150 for a $40 pair of gym
shoes or any member of that 'family' of shoes.

I wait and buy them at $20, when they get put on sale.

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:31:16 -0600, John Fields


You care about every opinion I have. If you didn't, you wouldn't
follow me around like a crazed chiuaua, biting at my ankles.

Bwuahahahahahahhaa! John hasn't "followed" anybody "around" anywhere,
you lying piece of shit.

I certainly don't [care], and the only reason you think anyone might
is because you're narcissistic enough to think that the stink of your
shit is something everyone should be subjected to, and fawn over, in
order to gain favor from you.

Fecal references again. Telling.

You are not qualified to make anything even close to a valid
assessment.

Maybe you should learn to spell some French before showing off your
French.

He got it exactly right, dumbass.

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:31:16 -0600, John Fields

What I was referring to was that, as far as I know, no one cares
whether or not you like Philadelphia or cheese steaks.

You care about every opinion I have. If you didn't, you wouldn't
follow me around like a crazed chiuaua, biting at my ankles.

Bwuahahahahahahhaa! John hasn't "followed" anybody "around" anywhere,
you lying piece of shit.

I certainly don't [care], and the only reason you think anyone might
is because you're narcissistic enough to think that the stink of your
shit is something everyone should be subjected to, and fawn over, in
order to gain favor from you.

Fecal references again. Telling.

You are not qualified to make anything even close to a valid
assessment.

Maybe you need to get on facebook or one of the other social networks
where the minutiae of the lives of insignificant contributors is de
riguere?

Maybe you should learn to spell some French before showing off your
French.

He got it exactly right, dumbass.

You are, as usual, AlwaysWrong. About everything.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de rigueur

John

I knew that you would miss it.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

On Feb 19, 10:54 am, Spehro Pefhany

[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote innews:[email protected]:

@ieee.org> wrote:

Keeping [gold] warm enough to flow is a problem. Liquid tungsten is
slightly denser, but much harder to melt. Platinum is appreciably
denser - 19.77 gm/cc - and while it melts at 1763.3C, which is higher
than you'd need for gold - 1064.18C - it is cooler than you'd need for
tungsten.

Why would the mass need to be liquid ?

Just build an electric railway up to a high plateau. During the night
run the trains loaded with some heavy material (such as depleted
uranium) up to the high plateau. During the day, let the same trains
return down using regenerative breaking .

In order to keep the air resistance at manageable levels, the train
can not go very fast, so the track would have to be pretty steep.

consider the LOSSES and what they do to system efficiency.

The losses could be pretty low.

Why not have personal storage units per home? Why, 1 ton hoisted a
mere 1.5km stores about 4KWHr, half a day's usage for most. If the
mile-high tower's a problem, 100 tons hoisted just 15m will do.
That's what, a mother-in-law + a house? (not necessarily in that
order).

If people could be convinced to plug their electric cars in while the
sun is shining you might have a way to pay for all that stuff in every
house. The storage issue is not an easy one to beat.

For storage you could use a giant thermal mass. That evens out the
home heating / cooling load, handling the peak demand problem, it's
cheap, and it doesn't wear out. No need to strip the Andes of all
their lithium either--save that for cars.

Maybe a combination of nuclear (base demand), geothermal (night) and
solar (day) would do it.

That sounds like a decent mix for the power. On the other side of the
equation, use sensible construction (passive solar, insulation, eaves,
passive airflow, cool roofs, etc.) to minimize demand.

Those techniques vary dramatically from place to place. This means
we'll need centralized planning. ;-)

Here's is how PV cells are now made:

Now this is how they should be made:

Think there is room for some price reductions in PV?

Sure, but are you sure welding them's the answer?

Automated production.
Not the hand crafting as currently used.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Feb 19, 7:23 pm, John Larkin

Maybe, but Sophocles was a little bit prophetic there.

Psychoanalysis is an expensive waste of time, but Freud's insights
seem to have been pretty useful. Like Linus Pauling and Karl Marx, he
was wrong but useful.

Heh - a psychiatrist is someone to whom you pay $250.00/hour to tell you
that life has ups and downs. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich