Power plugs used in EU countries

[Scott]

I am looking for the information on high power plug, i.e. >25A used in EU
countries.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

I am looking for the information on high power plug, i.e. >25A used in EU
countries.

I think most EU countries have adopted the old BS4343 standard (now called
IEC 60309 I believe). It comes in 16A, 32A, 63A and 125A versions, and
also single phase, 3 phase, and 3 phase + neutral versions.

Most EU countries had their own high current connectors before these became
widespread, and some of those may still be in use.

 

[Scott]

I think most EU countries have adopted the old BS4343 standard (now called
IEC 60309 I believe). It comes in 16A, 32A, 63A and 125A versions, and
also single phase, 3 phase, and 3 phase + neutral versions.

Most EU countries had their own high current connectors before these
became
widespread, and some of those may still be in use.

Andrew,

Many thanks for your advice. I will have it to study. Are you living in
European countries apart from UK? As I find very difficult in getting the
information of those countries where English is not their native language, I
contact some famous laboratory but still have unclear answers. Does normal
household have 1-phase, 2-phase and 3-phase power supply? In our country,
3-phase power supply is only available to industrial use. Thus we know
little about 3-phase power supply.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

Andrew,

Many thanks for your advice. I will have it to study. Are you living in
European countries apart from UK? As I find very difficult in getting the
information of those countries where English is not their native language, I
contact some famous laboratory but still have unclear answers. Does normal

I live in UK. Visit some other EU countries from time-to-time,
mainly France, Germany.

household have 1-phase, 2-phase and 3-phase power supply? In our country,
3-phase power supply is only available to industrial use. Thus we know
little about 3-phase power supply.

This varies throughout Europe. I think 3-phase is available to almost
anyone who wants it in most places in Europe. Each country has a single
phase supply limit, above which you have to take a 3-phase supply. Once
you have a 3-phase supply, there is no limit on the supply you can
order. In the UK, the single phase supply limit is 100A, and since very
few houses need more than 100A supply, there aren't many which have
3-phase. In some other EU countries, the single phase limit is as low
as 20A, and virtually everyone has 3-phase. 3-phase supplies are nearly
all star (or wye as you call it) with loads connected between a phase
and neutral, but there are a few pockets of the EU where the 3-phase
supply is Delta (with one leg grounded) and loads are connected between
phases.

Some high current appliances designed to be sold across the EU such as
a large electric stove are usually designed so they can run on either
3-phase star/wye or single phase by connecting the 3-phases together
(although that's obviously no use where you need phase rotation).
However, there aren't a lot of such appliances.

Note that the IEC 60309 connectors cannot be used in UK homes, as our
wiring regs require socket outlets in homes to be shuttered, and they
aren't. High current home appliances are permanently wired in here.

 

[Scott]

I live in UK. Visit some other EU countries from time-to-time,
mainly France, Germany.


This varies throughout Europe. I think 3-phase is available to almost
anyone who wants it in most places in Europe. Each country has a single
phase supply limit, above which you have to take a 3-phase supply. Once
you have a 3-phase supply, there is no limit on the supply you can
order. In the UK, the single phase supply limit is 100A, and since very
few houses need more than 100A supply, there aren't many which have
3-phase. In some other EU countries, the single phase limit is as low
as 20A, and virtually everyone has 3-phase. 3-phase supplies are nearly
all star (or wye as you call it) with loads connected between a phase
and neutral, but there are a few pockets of the EU where the 3-phase
supply is Delta (with one leg grounded) and loads are connected between
phases.

Some high current appliances designed to be sold across the EU such as
a large electric stove are usually designed so they can run on either
3-phase star/wye or single phase by connecting the 3-phases together
(although that's obviously no use where you need phase rotation).
However, there aren't a lot of such appliances.

Note that the IEC 60309 connectors cannot be used in UK homes, as our
wiring regs require socket outlets in homes to be shuttered, and they
aren't. High current home appliances are permanently wired in here.

Andrew,

Thank you very much for your useful information. Now I understand why they
are using multiple phase on top of single phase. Do you have any idea the
current limit for normal household mains sockets, i.e. 13A in the UK? Other
than 13A, fixed connection is required. Must the fixed connection be
handled by registered engineers?

Is there any 2-ph electric cooker? How can it work in balanced load in 3-ph
power system?

Scott

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

Andrew,

Thank you very much for your useful information. Now I understand why they
are using multiple phase on top of single phase. Do you have any idea the
current limit for normal household mains sockets, i.e. 13A in the UK?

Yes -- I think it varies between 10A and 16A in different EU countries.

Other than 13A, fixed connection is required.

In UK domestic situation only. Regs don't say this, only that
socket outlets in UK homes must be shuttered, but there aren't
any commonly used shuttered sockets over 13A. Other EU countries
don't have the requirement for socket outlets in homes to be
shuttered, and can and do have special purpose higher current
socket outlets.

Must the fixed connection be
handled by registered engineers?

Not in UK. Maybe in some other EU countries, but across most
of the EU, no one takes any notice of that sort of requirement.

Is there any 2-ph electric cooker?

AFAIK, there are no 2-ph supplies in Europe like the US Edison
system.

How can it work in balanced load in 3-ph
power system?

There's no requirement for the load to be balanced -- it's a
3-phase + Neutral supply.

 

[Charles Perry]

I am looking for the information on high power plug, i.e. >25A used in EU
countries.

Thanks,

Scott

You might try contacting www.interpower.com . We use them quite a lot when
we need to spec a european compatible plug/connector.

Charles Perry P.E.

 

[Scott]

In UK domestic situation only. Regs don't say this, only that
socket outlets in UK homes must be shuttered, but there aren't
any commonly used shuttered sockets over 13A. Other EU countries
don't have the requirement for socket outlets in homes to be
shuttered, and can and do have special purpose higher current
socket outlets.

I mean fixed connection on the product is to provide either no mains cord
set with the product or no mains plug attached to the supplied cord of the
product. How can we expect a normal user to make the connection by
themselve? Thus, the product is required a registered engineer to make the
connection. As far as I know, the user can buy a product that fitted with
mains plug to plug in a normal mains outlet in your houseby themselve. The
installation of mains outlets must by installed by registered engineer by
law. Is it in IEE regulation?

AFAIK, there are no 2-ph supplies in Europe like the US Edison
system.


There's no requirement for the load to be balanced -- it's a
3-phase + Neutral supply.

I mean the product can be configured to use 2-ph power supply. Once done in
this condition, how can they avoid unbalanced load? What is normal
provision of power supply (normal mains socket, 10/16A, other industrial
3-ph power supply socket, fixed connection box) in the kitchen of European
home? I notice that electric cookers are equipped a terminal block where
you can configure to use 1-ph, 2-ph or 3-ph power supply for Sweden and
Norway countries. It appears to me that in those countries, they have vary
conditions of power supply so the manufactureres leave it to the
installation engineer to do such work. I do not believe normal users are
competent to handle by themselves.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Scott]

You might try contacting www.interpower.com . We use them quite a lot
when we need to spec a european compatible plug/connector.

Charles Perry P.E.

Charles,

Having visited their website, it appears to be knowledgeable one and get in
touch them to see what they can offer.

Thanks and regards,

Scott

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

I mean fixed connection on the product is to provide either no mains cord
set with the product or no mains plug attached to the supplied cord of the
product. How can we expect a normal user to make the connection by
themselve?

You have to provide instructions. That's a legal requirement.

Thus, the product is required a registered engineer to make the
connection.

There is no such class of appliance which requires a registered engineer
to make the connection the UK. You can (and probably should) state that
it must only be connected up by someone compitent to do so. However, that
can be the home owner, or an electrician, and in both cases, detailed
instructions have to be provided.

As far as I know, the user can buy a product that fitted with
mains plug to plug in a normal mains outlet in your houseby themselve. The
installation of mains outlets must by installed by registered engineer by
law. Is it in IEE regulation?

No, anyone can install mains outlets (or mains anything).
In some locations, you are supposed to have them checked by the local
council, but compliance with this (Part P) is apparently less than 1%.
In the UK, other than the initial wiring when a house it built, most
domestic mains wiring is DIY, and this has always been the case.

I mean the product can be configured to use 2-ph power supply. Once done in
this condition, how can they avoid unbalanced load?

They don't need to avoid unbalanced load. They only need to ensure they
don't exceed the max current draw for each phase. You would do this by
distributing large loads, e.g. a 10kW shower on phase 1, and maybe your
appliance in phases 2 and 3. (but remember that having more than one
phase is unusal in the UK.)

What is normal
provision of power supply (normal mains socket, 10/16A, other industrial
3-ph power supply socket, fixed connection box) in the kitchen of European
home?

In the UK, usually a high current flex outlet plate is provided on the
wall behind the appliance. A switch for this outlet must be provided
within 2 metres of the appliance but not directly behind it (i.e. you
don't reach across the appliance to use the switch). The circuit runs
back to the fuse box and has a dedicated fuse or breaker, normally 32A
to 45A, depending on the conductor size.

Note however that all-electric cookers have not been fashionable for
last 15 years or so in UK, and many houses built or rewired in this
time will have no high current stove circuit. Most people regard the
combination of electric oven and gas hob as optimal. This, combined
with efficiency improvements in ovens, means that most ovens are now
well under 3kW, and designed to plug in to a standard 13A socket
outlet.

I'm not familiar enough to answer this for other EU countries.

I notice that electric cookers are equipped a terminal block where
you can configure to use 1-ph, 2-ph or 3-ph power supply for Sweden and
Norway countries. It appears to me that in those countries, they have vary
conditions of power supply so the manufactureres leave it to the
installation engineer to do such work. I do not believe normal users are
competent to handle by themselves.

That happens in UK too, but instructions are required to detail how to
connect up in different situations.

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

I think, Andrew, you will find that any fixed appliance will come under
part P of the building regs in a domestic situation.

I didn't say it didn't, but what's the relevance?

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

If it is, then such an appliance *must* be installed by an electrician who
is qualified under part P.

That's wrong.

A ordinary home-owner cannot do this.

That's wrong.

Note that although you could hard-wire, say a lathe, in your workshop (as
long as you have the installation checked) kitchens are a special case.
(we were talking about cookers here).

Kitchens do have different rules, but none of them prevent the
homeowner from from doing their own installation, or even rewiring
the whole kitchen if they want to. Please go and read Part P.

I agree that compliance with the legislation is probably low but Scott did
ask the question:

"Must the fixed connection be handled by registered engineers?"

to which the answer is No.

 

[Scott]

Andrew & Stuart,

I am pleased to have lots of input and advice from you and do enjoy the
discussion. In our region, we use gas rather than electricity on cookers in
most situation. I feel very natual to appoint qualified personnel
regardless how to call them to do fixed installation since we born. It is
interesting to know it is different from other parts of world. Thus the
communication takes so long that it should not be. However, I am lucky to
have both of you so patient to explain the detail.

Thanks a lot!

Scott

 

[Andrew Gabriel]

Andrew & Stuart,

I am pleased to have lots of input and advice from you and do enjoy the
discussion. In our region, we use gas rather than electricity on cookers in
most situation.

That's true here for the stove top too, but not ovens, where
electricity is preferred in the UK. However, both stove tops
and ovens are available in both fuel types.

I feel very natual to appoint qualified personnel
regardless how to call them to do fixed installation since we born. It is
interesting to know it is different from other parts of world. Thus the
communication takes so long that it should not be. However, I am lucky to
have both of you so patient to explain the detail.

There are a lot of people who DIY in the UK -- it's always
been popular, but it's dropping because the younger generation
are much less interested and/or capable in doing so than their
parents and grand parents. Many years ago, my father installed
central heating (partly before I was born, and partly when I
was a young child). 10 years ago, I installed my own central
heating and 5 years ago, my own aircon. I've always done all
my own wiring and plumbing. I used to have to use professional
plasters, but some years ago, I booked myself on a course, and
since then I've done all my own plastering (and it's much
better quality than the professionals, although it takes me
longer). 25 years ago when I bought my first house, I had a
tradesman mend the leaking roof. 5 years ago when it started
leaking again, I had the confidence to strip off the whole
area, and rebuild it from the rafters up, rather than patch it
as the tradesman had done. (It's been fine ever since!)

When you DIY, you are not normally thinking time is money,
and so you have the extra time to do a better job, and do it
exactly how you want it done. The money you save in paying
for someone else's time you can put to other uses -- e.g.
I fitted a significantly more expensive high efficiency
boiler than was either required or common at the time,
because I was interested in the technology.
When rewiring, I could afford to use some high quality
commercial wiring accessories which cost about 10 times what
would normally be used for a domestic rewire, to achieve a
good quality result.

However, it's important to know your limitations too.

 

[Scott]

That's true here for the stove top too, but not ovens, where
electricity is preferred in the UK. However, both stove tops
and ovens are available in both fuel types.


There are a lot of people who DIY in the UK -- it's always
been popular, but it's dropping because the younger generation
are much less interested and/or capable in doing so than their
parents and grand parents. Many years ago, my father installed
central heating (partly before I was born, and partly when I
was a young child). 10 years ago, I installed my own central
heating and 5 years ago, my own aircon. I've always done all
my own wiring and plumbing. I used to have to use professional
plasters, but some years ago, I booked myself on a course, and
since then I've done all my own plastering (and it's much
better quality than the professionals, although it takes me
longer). 25 years ago when I bought my first house, I had a
tradesman mend the leaking roof. 5 years ago when it started
leaking again, I had the confidence to strip off the whole
area, and rebuild it from the rafters up, rather than patch it
as the tradesman had done. (It's been fine ever since!)

When you DIY, you are not normally thinking time is money,
and so you have the extra time to do a better job, and do it
exactly how you want it done. The money you save in paying
for someone else's time you can put to other uses -- e.g.
I fitted a significantly more expensive high efficiency
boiler than was either required or common at the time,
because I was interested in the technology.
When rewiring, I could afford to use some high quality
commercial wiring accessories which cost about 10 times what
would normally be used for a domestic rewire, to achieve a
good quality result.

However, it's important to know your limitations too.

The latest generation prefers chatting in cafe or facebook than doing DIY.
They have their way to spend their leisure time.

Scott

 

[Tomi Holger Engdahl]

Andrew,

Many thanks for your advice. I will have it to study. Are you living
in European countries apart from UK? As I find very difficult in
getting the information of those countries where English is not their
native language, I contact some famous laboratory but still have
unclear answers. Does normal household have 1-phase, 2-phase and
3-phase power supply? In our country, 3-phase power supply is only
available to industrial use. Thus we know little about 3-phase power
supply.

I live in Finland.

Here a normal household has either 1-phase or 3-phase power coming to
household. Most households get 3-phase power to the lectrical panel.
Some small older houses or apartments on older building coudl get only
1-phase power to electrical panel.
So where I live 3-phase power supply is widely available to all uses
and widely used (at least comes to main electrical panel).

The connectors used for 3-phase power are IEC 60309 connectors.
Those connectors can be seen on both industrial and residential
installations (for example main electical panel on residential
building could have one IEC 60309 to take out 3-phase power when
needed).