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multi-speed furnace blower motor

D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
First off, I have no idea if this is an inappropriate forum for this
question, so please redirect me if there is a better group for this.

I've got an old (1970's) gas-fired forced-air furnace in my basement. It
has, as one might expect, a single-speed fan motor. The motor is a 1725rpm
1/4hp. During the winter we heat primarily with wood. We have a woodstove
in the livingroom, and for the past few years have turned the furnace fan on
during the day to circulate the heat to the rest of the house. We plug the
cold-air intake during the winter, because otherwise we get outside-temp air
mixed with the recirculated air which can have more of a cooling than
heating effect when it's 0F outside. The house is >60 years old and has
plenty of air leaks already, so please don't bother warning me about
plugging the cold air intake... we've been doing it for years and nothing's
broken down and everybody's still alive.

I'd like to switch my fan motor to a two-speed for a number of reasons. It
will allow me to re-connect the cold air intake to the furnace, it will
lower my electricity costs as I don't need the furnace fan on full speed
just to keep heat ciruclating, etc. The problem is that the only motors I
see available are 1725/1140rpm motors. 1140rpm is too fast for me, and will
definitely still pull in too much cold air, plus I doubt I'll save that much
$$ using it. I was thinking more like 500rpm.

So, first off I'd like to know if anyone knows of a manufacturer (and even
better a retailer) who sells such a motor? I have been perusing the
internet for an hour and while I see references to multi-speed FURNACES I
don't see any mutli-speed motors for sale (other than the aforementioned
1725/1140 motors).

Secondly, how do the multi-speed newer furnaces which run at a low speed all
or most of the time deal with the cold-air intake issue?

I don't want to invest a pile of money in this ancient furnace, which would
preclude any type of microprocessor-controlled, sensor-driven,
cfm-regulated, variable-speed ECM motor system... I just want a two-speed
fan to circulate the air and not pull cold air into the house and which
switches to high speed when the thermostat kicks the furnace on.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Dave
British Columbia, Canada
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
The usual place for a replacement motor is a motor repair shop or
appliance
parts warehouse or last resort, an HVAC wholesaler. The latter will
charge
you the 'walk-in' price which is double the trade price.

The most speeds I've seen is 5. Most general purpose replacement fan
motors
are 4 speed. The installer chooses the speed that best fits the air
handler.
The idea is to only have to carry a few part numbers on the service truck.

Thanks a lot for all of the information. I went to my local motor repair
shop, and they tried to tell me that an 1140/1725 was all that was
available. Maybe I'll try another shop.
If you can't find anyone else, you can call the place where I occasionally
moonlight, Jerry's Electric Motor Service in Cleveland, TN, 423 472-5959.
Jerry Brown (Sr and Jr) operate the place. They ship UPS all over the
country. You'll need the following when you call: ALL the nameplate
data.
the shaft diameter. Whether the shaft is round or has a flat machined on
it.
How it mounts (by the frame bolts or via clamp rings.) Figure about $80.

Most permanent capacitor run fan motors (most likely what you have) can be
slowed with an SCR light dimmer. The dimmer must be a commercial version
that
can handle inductive loads. I use the commercial grade Lutron dimmers
that
Home Depot sells. I have a squirrel cage fan mounted on a tripod that I
use
for comfort cooling in my shop. The dimmer lets me vary the speed. I use
a
combination of speed and intake blocking to get the amount of air I need.

My fan is mounted inside the back of the furnace, and there is a filter just
above the fan. I could very easily cut a piece of cardboard the same size
as the filter and make a hole in it to only let a portion of air through.
This will do what I want as far as restricting the air flow, but may present
problems when the furnace turns on as I'd conceivably have much less
efficient distribution of the heated air and more wasted heat up the chimney
if I'm not getting my flow through the heat exchanger. In addition, as you
note I may run into a motor overtemp situation.

I like the SCR dimmer idea... does the dimmer dissipate the dropped power
via heat? I am thinking that I could wire the dimmer in via a relay, so
that when the furnace kicks on, the relay coil energizes and cuts the dimmer
out of the circuit resulting in high speed. Do you see anything wrong with
this approach?

Why would anyone buy a new 2-speed motor if they could use a cheap dimmer
and relay?
Another way to slow the motor is to place an appropriate value of motor
run
capacitor in series with one power lead. One can compute the size but
it's
easier to just try a few until you get the speed you want. If this is a
120
volt fan, I'd guesstimate about a 40uF unit to start.

Same concerns as above. It Would be pretty easy though. Is the idea that
the capacitor introduces phase shift which makes the motor less efficient?
My understanding of capacitors is that they pass AC with minimal power loss,
otherwise they'd be hot all the time, which they are not.
It's not the cold air intake that is an issue. The issue is pushing
heavier,
denser cold air through the duct work in the summer time. That's why dual
speed fans run faster on AC than when heating.

Just to clarify (you probably already figured this, but I'll state it just
to be clear) my house has a duct system for heated air, and a separate
system for cold air return. Each room in the house has two ducts, on
opposite sides of the room in most cases. The cold air return duct system
leads to the furnace and connects right above the filter and (below that)
the fan and motor. There is a duct which runs from the outside of the house
and connects to the cold air return ducting just prior to the furnace.

When I run JUST THE FAN in the winter time, with the outside air duct open,
it blows COLD AIR in my house, at least a whole lot colder than the ambient
air inside the house. I don't know why this would be. The house is old,
and the doors and windows probably do leak A BIT, but I'd think a fair
amount of cold air needs to be being pulled in to feel as cold as it does.
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Young said:
You already have lots of good advice but your inability to find the motor
you want is probably because you have only looked at 2 speed motors. It
makes sense that a 1725 RPM (4 pole) motor would be unlikely to have
anything except about 1140 RPM (6 poles) as its second speed. For lower
speeds you could just get a 3 or 4 speed motor. There are a lot of
variable speed motors used in HVAC systems but they often have rather
complicated controls and high costs.

Don Young
Ahhh, yes. It can be challenging figuring out the right question to ask!
Needing only two speeds, that's what I searched for. I think I will try the
SCR idea for now as it's likely cheaper than any motor I could source. In
addition I won't have to deal with mounting a motor with a different
footprint than the one I'm replacing. I looked at various systems, ECM
motors, etc. but really don't want to put hundreds of dollars into this old
furnace.

Thanks for the reply.

Dave
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
into a motor overtemp situation.
That should work.
Capacitive reactance is used to limit current and drop voltage in a wide
variety of consumer electronic gadgets. An example is something we talk
about
a lot here - the Kill-A-Watt. There is a large cap in series with a low
value
resistor that supplies power directly from the line to the voltage
regulator.

Another example is the Bosch cordless drill battery charger from a few
years
ago. The charger seems too light weight to have anything inside. I had
one
of those drills and when I opened the charger case, found little more than
a
large cylindrical polypropylene cap in series with the line. IT worked
well,
as I had that drill for almost a decade before the batteries finally
crapped
out.

Capacitive reactance is one of those terms I find tough to get a handle on.
I repair electronic equipment as a hobby, and have (started to) read many
books on electronics theory. Phase angle and capacitive reactance have
never been clear though. You know the old first law of thermodynamics:
energy is neither created nor destroyed, simply made to change forms.
Resistors drop voltage, they get hot. (linear) voltage regulators drop
voltage, they get hot. I can see where logic-based switching circuits, like
PWM's, can vary voltage by switching, similar to an SCR so that less power
is let through the circuit rather than having to dissipate excess. But
capacitive reactance dropping voltage... where does the extra power go? I
look at capacitors like voltage reservoirs, but I guess they are current
limiters as well seen from a different angle.
Let's clarify terminology.
Separate from those, some systems have an intake for outside air,
variously
called a fresh air intake or tempering air intake. In the past a fresh
air
intake was used to supply what turned out to be an overabundance of fresh
air.
Research showed that the interior could be maintained comfortable with
much
fewer air exchanges than previously believed. Your system is old enough
to
have been installed during that era.

Yah, I used the term "cold air" instead of "fresh air".
Anyway, back to your situation. A house that old probably does NOT need
the
fresh air intake that you have. Unless you get a CO buildup from the wood
furnace, you can safely block it during heating season. You could
manually
cut it in during mild weather when the outside air is more comfortable
than
inside. Or you could get one of those little computer modules and a
couple of
damper drive motors and automate the process.
I've got wood-frame single-pane windows, for which I have built single-pane
wood-frame storm windows. I seal the be-jesus out of them in the fall,
using a product called "draft stop" which is a removable (doesn't exactly
come off like they show in the commercial but...) silicone sealant around
the outside of the inner windows and closed-cell foam around the edges of
the storms. But I still get condensation between the storm and inner
windows in the winter. It's been suggested to me that if I ran the fan 24/7
on slow speed, with a fresh air intake connected, that I'd create a positive
pressure inside the house which would tend to push dry air into the airspace
between the windows rather than drawing cooler wet air in from outside. I
have no idea if a) this is true or b) if this is attainable. Right now my
fresh air intake is a 4" duct. Maybe if I damped this down (manual-style,
stick a bat of insulation into it or something like that) it would help
mitigate the seemingly excess amount of cold air drawn in to the return
system.

Again, many thanks for your time and expertise.

Dave
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
into a motor overtemp situation.

Capacitive reactance is one of those terms I find tough to get a handle on.
I repair electronic equipment as a hobby, and have (started to) read many
books on electronics theory. Phase angle and capacitive reactance have
never been clear though. You know the old first law of thermodynamics:
energy is neither created nor destroyed, simply made to change forms.
Resistors drop voltage, they get hot. (linear) voltage regulators drop
voltage, they get hot. I can see where logic-based switching circuits, like
PWM's, can vary voltage by switching, similar to an SCR so that less power
is let through the circuit rather than having to dissipate excess. But
capacitive reactance dropping voltage... where does the extra power go? I
look at capacitors like voltage reservoirs, but I guess they are current
limiters as well seen from a different angle.

If you look at capacitors similar to a lead acid battery it makes a bit
more sense for AC.

Say you connect a 400uF cap across 120 volts.

It will charge up to a peak of around 180 or whatever. It just stored a
charge.

Now the as the line voltage drops towards 0 and reverses, it's going to
dump current back into the outlet, like a battery would. It's giving back
what it took. This process of take some energy, then give it back keeps
repeating.

If you connect a current meter across a lead of this cap, you'd measure
some amps of current flowing, but considering that it's not really using
up much power (just it's internal losses which are really low for film cap
of that size) no work is being done and the power draw is almost nothing.

It obviously gets more complex when you deal with phase shifts or some
inductance added into the mix, but a capacitor itself is more like a
spring of sorts. It can store energy, but it has to dump it somewhere
before it can store a new charge. resistors can dissipate energy, but
store nothing.
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don said:
You already have lots of good advice but your inability to find the
motor you want is probably because you have only looked at 2 speed
motors. It makes sense that a 1725 RPM (4 pole) motor would be
unlikely to have anything except about 1140 RPM (6 poles) as its
second speed.

Having rewound more than a few induction motors, I can tell you it is very
easy to wind a 4-pole motor and reconnect it for 8 poles (~900 RPM) *if* the
connections between poles are brought out to the terminal head (one
connection commonly used is called 'consequent pole', but it comes in three
variations, a fan application would use "variable torque / variable power"
connection). To get 4 and 6 poles takes two separate windings that is
harder and costlier.

Using a dimmer on anything but the smallest of induction motors is asking
for trouble. Running induction motors on less than their rated voltage is a
pretty sure-fire way to burn them out. Same with putting a cap in series
with the line, it does the same thing and reduces the terminal voltage to
the motor.

A 'throttle plate' would work well so long as the OP doesn't have to run the
furnace with the throttle plate installed. If the furnace runs with too
little air flow, the heat-exchanger safety switch will trip when the
heat-exchanger hood overheats from a lack of air flow.

daestrom
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
Shhhh. Please don't tell all the motors around my place that are running
on
dimmers and/or capacitors that! The might go on strike or something.
This
includes the 3/4 hp squirrel cage fan that constitutes my whole house fan.
Or
the 1 hp gear motor on my BBQ sauce mixer. Yep, another Lutron dimmer
controlling it.

How's that old saying go? "Those who say it can't be done should stand
aside
so as not to obstruct those of us who are doing it."

There ARE some single phase motors that simply cannot be slowed with a
phase
angle controller but they aren't used in furnace blowers and so there is
no
need to muddy the water with those details.

Okay, one more question regarding phase angle controllers and AC induction
motors: Is the amount of strain which the use of an SCR puts on a motor
proportional to the voltage drop? Because I'd want to use this dimmer to
run the fan SLOW, probably a couple of hundred RPM's. Common sense (well,
my common sense anyway) warns that whereas slowing it from 1725 to 1500 RPMs
won't stress the motor significantly, maybe 400 RPMs would. Am I wrong?
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon said:
Shhhh. Please don't tell all the motors around my place that are
running on dimmers and/or capacitors that! The might go on strike or
something. This includes the 3/4 hp squirrel cage fan that
constitutes my whole house fan. Or the 1 hp gear motor on my BBQ
sauce mixer. Yep, another Lutron dimmer controlling it.

How's that old saying go? "Those who say it can't be done should
stand aside so as not to obstruct those of us who are doing it."

And if you don't know what you're doing, just jury-rig the heck out of it
and claim success.
There ARE some single phase motors that simply cannot be slowed with
a phase angle controller but they aren't used in furnace blowers and
so there is no need to muddy the water with those details.

Induction motors of any size can be burned out when run on lower than rated
voltage. It's a simple fact. Ever have to replace a 'fridge compressor
because of low line voltage? How about the 'acrid odor' from a burned out
blower motor?

Squirrel cage induction motors only slow down on low voltage because they
can't develop enough torque and the current draw goes up considerably. Now,
universal motors on a dimmer, that's fine. Hook a dimmer up to the blower
motor of your furnace and it will most likely burn up.

A 1 hp gear motor for a sauce mixer? LOL. if the speed varies widely with
voltage, it probably isn't a squirrel cage motor in the first place.

Let's see if some EE's in alt-engineering-electrical think your idea is
worthwhile. Don, Charles, what do you think of using a dimmer to slow down
a furnace blower?

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave said:
Okay, one more question regarding phase angle controllers and AC
induction motors: Is the amount of strain which the use of an SCR
puts on a motor proportional to the voltage drop? Because I'd want
to use this dimmer to run the fan SLOW, probably a couple of hundred
RPM's. Common sense (well, my common sense anyway) warns that
whereas slowing it from 1725 to 1500 RPMs won't stress the motor
significantly, maybe 400 RPMs would. Am I wrong?

I'd say you are correct. But Neon seems to think you can do it (of course,
he's jury-rigged a lot of things). Try it and when it burns out, send him
the bill.

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon said:
Shhhh. Please don't tell all the motors around my place that are
running on dimmers and/or capacitors that! The might go on strike or
something. This includes the 3/4 hp squirrel cage fan that
constitutes my whole house fan. Or the 1 hp gear motor on my BBQ
sauce mixer. Yep, another Lutron dimmer controlling it.

How's that old saying go? "Those who say it can't be done should
stand aside so as not to obstruct those of us who are doing it."

And then there are those of us that spent more than a few years in motor
re-wind shop, fixing burned out motors and re-winding them. I've had a few
customers that burned out their motor and was surprised when I told them it
wasn't worth rewinding but they should buy a new one and run it at the
proper voltage.
There ARE some single phase motors that simply cannot be slowed with
a phase angle controller but they aren't used in furnace blowers and
so there is no need to muddy the water with those details.

Certainly *my* furnace blower is in that category. But then a lot of them
are internally protected so they'll just shut themselves down when they
start to overheat. The user may wonder why it stops and then restarts after
cooling.

daestrom
 
D

Don Kelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
----------------------------
daestrom said:
And if you don't know what you're doing, just jury-rig the heck out of it
and claim success.


Induction motors of any size can be burned out when run on lower than
rated voltage. It's a simple fact. Ever have to replace a 'fridge
compressor because of low line voltage? How about the 'acrid odor' from a
burned out blower motor?

Squirrel cage induction motors only slow down on low voltage because they
can't develop enough torque and the current draw goes up considerably.
Now, universal motors on a dimmer, that's fine. Hook a dimmer up to the
blower motor of your furnace and it will most likely burn up.

A 1 hp gear motor for a sauce mixer? LOL. if the speed varies widely
with voltage, it probably isn't a squirrel cage motor in the first place.

Let's see if some EE's in alt-engineering-electrical think your idea is
worthwhile. Don, Charles, what do you think of using a dimmer to slow
down a furnace blower?

daestrom

One can use a dimmer on an induction motor provided that the motor is
operating below its rated and the dimmer is rated for motor operation (more
expensive than light dimmers).
On a fan, as the speed drops, the torque required will generally drop faster
than the speed so a small speed change will result in a greater drop in load
torque (and air flow) so one might get away with it without burning out the
motor. However, trying to decrease speed this way has its limits in that
starting can be questionable and stalling is a definite possibility. There
are devices on the market which do this and great claims are made -but the
downside conditions are ignored. Neon John is lucky. Ignorance is bliss in
that case.

The gear motor may be a "universal motor" or even a "brushless DC" motor.
(1HP rating - pretty big compared to the average mixmaster).

As for series capacitors- Not a good idea and the effect on terminal voltage
will be dependent on the operating point. How close to series resonance do
you want to go?

I use a motor rated dimmer on a small fan motor for a fireplace- It allows
me to set a minimum speed so that I couldn't stall the motor and it
requires me to start the fan at full voltage.
Would I do it with my furnace motor? No way!

Don Kelly [email protected]
remove the X to answer
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon said:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:18:46 -0400, "daestrom"



Instead of running off like a coward for reinforcements, why don't we
cut to the chase? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is.
If you're so convinced that I don't know what I'm talking about, this
should be a no-brainer for you.

You sound like some bully in the school yard that resorts to name-calling
when someone disagrees with them. Real mature. Point is you won't take my
word for it, so I simply asked that some other experts, with much more
experience than you join in the conversation.

It's obvious that *you* are the one that is afraid of real experts, as you
keep dropping the alt.engineering.electrical group from the discussion. Why
is that John, afraid someone there might actually know more about the
subject than you?? Not to worry, I added it back for you. I've posted
there many times over the years and found some very knowledgable folks there
(but of course it has a few crackpots as well). My experience with rotating
machinery has been well received there, why don't you go read some and learn
some.

Going to experts to solve a disagreement isn't 'running off like a coward',
it's the smart and mature thing to do. Trying to make it look like the act
of a coward is pretty childish.

If you read Don's reply you'll see that his position seems somewhere in
between ours. He points out that some loads like fans have a rapid drop in
their power requirements at slow speeds and so the load on the motor could
drop fast enough at slow speeds to avoid damage to the motor. So for some
things, Don thinks a suitably rated dimmer would be okay for variable speed
control. But he also doesn't think it would be appropriate for a furnace
blower.
I have $1000 that says that I can slow most any furnace blower with
an SCR controller and in particular, that I can slow the one that I
use in my shop to circulate air. Or my heat pump's blower, provided
it uses a 120 volt motor (I have no idea at this point.) Your choice.
I'll video the whole experiment and put it on Youtube.

"success" is defined as operating the motor over its useful speed
range until its temperature stabilizes with the winding temperature
as indicated by an attached thermocouple not exceeding its class
rating.

As if your ten minute video would 'prove' anything. Just grandstanding in
front of your admirers??

Temperature rise in the motor is not something you can measure with a
thermocouple attached on the outside, or even on the winding. It's internal
to the slot where the heat has the hardest time being conducted away from
the source. Large motors often have temperature detectors embedded in the
winding during manufacture. Motors that are 'internally protected' often
have the protective device embedded as well. You going to take your motor
and unwind it to put a detector in the proper place? Better not, you
probably wouldn't know how to re-wind it again.

A mild case of overheating internally won't show up as a failure in an hour
or two, or even a day. But it will shorten the life of the insulation in
the slots and cause failure.
Of course, if you behave as you usually do, you'll crawfish and
backtrack as fast as you can. A typical net.alligator - all mouth
and no brain. Or integrity. That's why you hide behind a nym.


Ad hominem attack, the last resort of wannabes and losers. You don't know
why I use a nym, but you see it as point to attack, so you go for it. You
have no way to judge my integrity, but why not attack that too?

I haven't 'crawfished' or backtracked from you in previous arguments, yet
you try to portray me as one who does. That's more a strawman tactic, but I
expect about as much from you.
So let's see if you're a man or a mouth. Anyone want to place a side
bet on whether he'll do anything other than run his mouth?

Ah, trying to foment some sort of 'mob mentality'. Why don't you wrap
yourself in the flag and blame me for all that's wrong with the world while
you're at it. A lot of petty dictators do that. It works, for a while.

Or you could just admit that you're just a tinkerer that plays around with
stuff and "doesn't play well with others."

daestrom
 
B

bw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:50:03 -0400, "daestrom"

I started to write a fact-based rebuttal to this garbage but then I
realized
that I would be wasting my time. As Mom taught me, when one lays down
with
hogs, he comes up smelling like sh*t. The air in this thread is foul at
the
moment.

Don't bother, you won't have an audience.
Really? So you think that air is a better thermal conductor than iron,
eh?
Fascinating.

It is in this case, since the MOVING air removes the heat.
You obviously ignored (or don't understand) daestrom's point.
But we're not talking about large motors are we? The notion of a thermal
protection thermostat being embedded in the tiny slots of a furnace fan
blower
is hilarious. The "proper place" for the thermal sensor is strapped to
the
outside of the windings' end turns. Or to the end bell.

Obviously you are wrong again.
Crawfishing. Just what I expected. From this I take it that you're not
willing to put your money where your mouth is. Again, what I expected.

The original poster can, of course, select whichever advice he desires.
Mine,
based on experience from someone with a long track record or hypothetical
nonsense from an anonymous poster who hides behind a nym and has claimed
in
the past to be everything from a submarine driver to a nuclear reactor
operator. <chuckle>.

I've always read Daestrom's posts carefully, and have never found any
substantial error.
I rarely read your posts, you have an ego problem.
Daestrom is correct.
 
V

Vaughn Simon

Jan 1, 1970
0
The dry air is the OUTSIDE air. The warm damp air escaping is what
makes the condensation in between the windows. Seal your INSIDE
windows, and allow a small amount of infiltration on your storm
window. That makes sense...
Storm windows in years past had an adjustable "vent" at the bottom to
prevent condensation between the panes. **

I live in south Florida, but was raised in Detroit. You are tickling some
really old brain cells here... We had the wooden storm windows back then, and I
don't remember fogging being a big problem. And yes, I think I do remember a
little sheet metal gizmo in the bottom frame member. Of course, those windows
weren't sealed in any effective way and provided little insulation effect. I
think that their main function was to reduce drafts.

Swapping the storm windows with the screens (that is also when we washed our
windows) was a rite of season passage that I had long-forgotten. It was a
process that took most of a weekend and was sometimes delayed too long.

Vaughn
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:50:03 -0400, "daestrom"

I started to write a fact-based rebuttal to this garbage but then I realized
that I would be wasting my time. As Mom taught me, when one lays down with
hogs, he comes up smelling like sh*t. The air in this thread is foul at the
moment.


Really? So you think that air is a better thermal conductor than iron, eh?
Fascinating.

...


But we're not talking about large motors are we? The notion of a thermal
protection thermostat being embedded in the tiny slots of a furnace fan blower
is hilarious. The "proper place" for the thermal sensor is strapped to the
outside of the windings' end turns. Or to the end bell.

It's really not.

plenty of small blower type motors have a thermal protector wedged into
the slots for the windings.

tear some motors apart and take a look. The resettable ones are usually
rectangular cross section metal tubes wrapped in a plastic or paper
sleeve, with leads coming out one side.
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
in the process taking "8X10 Color Glossy Photographs" that would
have made Arlo Guthrie proud.

But, most importantly, did you then put the "circles and arrows on each one
explaining what each one was"?
 
But, most importantly, did you then put the "circles and arrows on each one
explaining what each one was"?

Had you followed the link, you would know that he used color-coded
letters and arrows to create an explanation even the engineers could
understand.

John
 
D

Dave

Jan 1, 1970
0
Had you followed the link, you would know that he used color-coded
letters and arrows to create an explanation even the engineers could
understand.
LOL. I think you missed the point...
 
Y

You

Jan 1, 1970
0
"Dave" <[email protected]> said:
But, most importantly, did you then put the "circles and arrows on each one
explaining what each one was"?

Not just "Circles and Arrows", but you also need the "Paragraph on the
Back, Explaining what each Photograph was, and what the Circles and
Arrows showed".......
 
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