Information Needed

[Ken Williams]

Greetings:



One story and two questions.



Over the weekend I needed to replace the ballast in a fluorescent
kitchen fixture that housed one 32 watt and one 40 watt circline T9
lamps. Calling around to the suppliers in town the only replacement
available was an Advance ballast model RS-32-40-TP-W. After
installing the new ballast, I noted that it was running hotter than I
like, can barely touch it with the lens off after one hour running.
Since I equate hot ballasts with wasted power, my objective is to
replace the new ballast with an electronic version and put the
Advance on the shelf as a spare.



The problem is that I can't seem to find an efficient electronic
ballast to service this particular configuration. In fact the only
compatible electronic ballast that I found is a Robertson model
RSW3240C120WS which, except for the safety features, doesn't appear
to be much more efficient than a good magnetic unit. Osram/Sylvania
hasn't responded. Would be appreciative for any suggestions.



Is there a web site that would give me a layman's explanation of how
two pin compact fluorescents (13Watt) operate and what part the
"ballast" (auto transformer?) plays?.



With thanks

Ken W

 

[JM]

quoting:

Over the weekend I needed to replace the ballast in a fluorescent
kitchen fixture that housed one 32 watt and one 40 watt circline T9
lamps. Calling around to the suppliers in town the only replacement
available was an Advance ballast model RS-32-40-TP-W. After
installing the new ballast, I noted that it was running hotter than I
like, can barely touch it with the lens off after one hour running.
Since I equate hot ballasts with wasted power, my objective is to
replace the new ballast with an electronic version and put the
Advance on the shelf as a spare.

Is this fixture one of the tightly enclosed type? The ballast sits right in
between the inner lamp. It is normal for the air inside of these fixtures to
get over 160 degrees F inside. Ballasts in these fixtures often fail due to
the extreme temperature. Even the wires near the ballast change their color
in time to all black...

These fixtures run the lamps so hot that it raises the mercury pressure so
that it ruduces light output. Then the high temperature will also degrade
the phosphors much faster than normal. You're looking at 30-40 lpw.

The problem is that I can't seem to find an efficient electronic
ballast to service this particular configuration. In fact the only
compatible electronic ballast that I found is a Robertson model
RSW3240C120WS which, except for the safety features, doesn't appear
to be much more efficient than a good magnetic unit. Osram/Sylvania
hasn't responded. Would be appreciative for any suggestions.

You're out of luck. As far as I know, there's no such thing as an electronic
ballast for standard 22w, 32, and 40w circline lamps, other than perhaps
circline CFLs. I would't install an electronic abllast in such a tightly
enclosed fixture because the heat from the lamps alone would eventually fry
the ballast. You're best bet is to junk the fixture, or just live with it.

 

[Ken Williams]

: On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:00:58 -0400, "Ken Williams"
:
:
: Relative temperature is related to relative wasted power ONLY if
the
: two objects are of equal size, have surface coatings of equal
: emissivity and equal thermal conductivity to other objects. If your
: new ballast is significantly smaller than the old ballast, or not
: properly mounted to the fixture, it could operate at a higher
: temperature even if it is dissipating less power.

The new ballast is about the same size as the old Robertson. The old
ballast, in operation, was barely warm to the touch. I also replaced
a ballast in a 22W circline, the new ballast for that lamp was 1/4
the size of the original and barely warms. I'm keeping that one, it's
labelled Etlin-Daniels and was made in China. Can't find out any of
the particulars.
:
: >The problem is that I can't seem to find an efficient electronic
: >ballast to service this particular configuration. In fact the only
: >compatible electronic ballast that I found is a Robertson model
: >RSW3240C120WS which, except for the safety features, doesn't
appear
: >to be much more efficient than a good magnetic unit.
Osram/Sylvania
: >hasn't responded. Would be appreciative for any suggestions.
:
: Sorry, I don't have any good suggestions. T9 circline lamps have
: terrible efficacy. If you are not attached to your present fixture
I
: would recommend you replace the fixture with one that uses more
modern
: and efficient fluorescent lamps.
:

Suggestions for lamps or is it anything else? We can't seem to find
a fixture that is as well made and fits in with the other fixtures
that we have both in the kitchen and other parts of the house.

: I don't have a good web site reference, but the main role of the
: ballast is to control the current drawn by a discharge lamp, such
as a
: fluorescent lamp or metal halide lamp. The power outlet in your
house
: is a voltage source. It provides 120 volts at whatever current is
: required by the device connected to that outlet, up to the rating
of
: the circuit breaker.
:
: An ideal ballast operates as a pure current source. It would
provide a
: fixed current to any load independent of the voltage required by
that
: load, up to the open circuit voltage limit of the current source.
:
: Real ballasts do not provide perfect current control, but do
provide
: enough current control for the proper operation of discharge lamps.
: Ballasts also provide the higher voltage needed for starting most
: fluorescent lamps and, for some lamps, provide multiple low
voltage
: supplies to heat the lamp(s) electrodes.

Thank you

:
: --
: Vic Roberts
: http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
:

 

[Ken Williams]

: quoting:
::
: Is this fixture one of the tightly enclosed type? The ballast sits
right in
: between the inner lamp. It is normal for the air inside of these
fixtures to
: get over 160 degrees F inside. Ballasts in these fixtures often
fail due to
: the extreme temperature. Even the wires near the ballast change
their color
: in time to all black...
:
: These fixtures run the lamps so hot that it raises the mercury
pressure so
: that it ruduces light output. Then the high temperature will also
degrade
: the phosphors much faster than normal. You're looking at 30-40
lpw.

Ouch! The fixture fits your definition for a "tightly enclosed type".
The old ballast a Robertson RS2232P W/S operated the fixture for
about 15 years and since it was located in the Kitchen was on most of
the time. It did not heat up appreciably, certainly not to the degree
that the Advance is. The wires on the old ballast are only a little
discoloured, a light tan in some spots. Maybe I didn't know when I
was well off, the Advance is running hot enough that I won't put the
cover on.

: You're out of luck. As far as I know, there's no such thing as an
electronic
: ballast for standard 22w, 32, and 40w circline lamps, other than
perhaps
: circline CFLs. I would't install an electronic abllast in such a
tightly
: enclosed fixture because the heat from the lamps alone would
eventually fry
: the ballast. You're best bet is to junk the fixture, or just live
with it.
:

Check out the Robertson model RSW3240C120WS I assume that it is real.
:


Ken W

 

[Victor Roberts]

The new ballast is about the same size as the old Robertson. The old
ballast, in operation, was barely warm to the touch. I also replaced
a ballast in a 22W circline, the new ballast for that lamp was 1/4
the size of the original and barely warms. I'm keeping that one, it's
labelled Etlin-Daniels and was made in China. Can't find out any of
the particulars.

The advance ballast should dissipate about 13 watts according to the
data sheet. I can't find enough data on the Robertson ballast to
calculate power dissipation.

: >The problem is that I can't seem to find an efficient electronic
: >ballast to service this particular configuration. In fact the only
: >compatible electronic ballast that I found is a Robertson model
: >RSW3240C120WS which, except for the safety features, doesn't
appear
: >to be much more efficient than a good magnetic unit.
Osram/Sylvania
: >hasn't responded. Would be appreciative for any suggestions.
:
: Sorry, I don't have any good suggestions. T9 circline lamps have
: terrible efficacy. If you are not attached to your present fixture
I
: would recommend you replace the fixture with one that uses more
modern
: and efficient fluorescent lamps.
:

Suggestions for lamps or is it anything else? We can't seem to find
a fixture that is as well made and fits in with the other fixtures
that we have both in the kitchen and other parts of the house.

I don't have any fixture recommendations, but any modern linear T8 or
T5 or compact fluorescent lamp, including the new T5 circlines, would
be more efficient than the T9 circline lamps and you will be able to
find a matching high efficiency electronic ballast.

 

[TKM]

: quoting:
::
: Is this fixture one of the tightly enclosed type? The ballast sits
right in
: between the inner lamp. It is normal for the air inside of these
fixtures to
: get over 160 degrees F inside. Ballasts in these fixtures often
fail due to
: the extreme temperature. Even the wires near the ballast change
their color
: in time to all black...
:
: These fixtures run the lamps so hot that it raises the mercury
pressure so
: that it ruduces light output. Then the high temperature will also
degrade
: the phosphors much faster than normal. You're looking at 30-40
lpw.

Ouch! The fixture fits your definition for a "tightly enclosed type".
The old ballast a Robertson RS2232P W/S operated the fixture for
about 15 years and since it was located in the Kitchen was on most of
the time. It did not heat up appreciably, certainly not to the degree
that the Advance is. The wires on the old ballast are only a little
discoloured, a light tan in some spots. Maybe I didn't know when I
was well off, the Advance is running hot enough that I won't put the
cover on.

: You're out of luck. As far as I know, there's no such thing as an
electronic
: ballast for standard 22w, 32, and 40w circline lamps, other than
perhaps
: circline CFLs. I would't install an electronic abllast in such a
tightly
: enclosed fixture because the heat from the lamps alone would
eventually fry
: the ballast. You're best bet is to junk the fixture, or just live
with it.
:

Check out the Robertson model RSW3240C120WS I assume that it is real.
:


Ken W

The Am. Lighting Assoc. and NEMA have teamed up to publish a list (a spread
sheet, actually) of energy-efficient lamp and ballast combinations
recommended for use in residential lighting equipment. All of the listings
have gone through the Energy Star approval process.

You can download the list at: http://www.nema.org/lampballastmatrix/

Several fixture manufacturers serving the residential market now feature
energy-efficient (usually also Energy Star) designs. One is Sea Gull
Lighting. They have a catalog featuring just their energy-efficient
offereings. You can also see them at: http://www.seagulllighting.com/ .
American Fluorescent is another company adding some classy new efficient
designs. They are at: http://www.americanfluorescent.com/

Disclaimer: I have no business relationships with either company. There
are others, of course. I do provide technical support services to the Am.
Lighting Assoc. and became aware of these companies via that work.

Terry McGowan

 

[Ken Williams]

: On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:48:17 -0400, "Ken Williams"
:
: I don't have any fixture recommendations, but any modern linear T8
or
: T5 or compact fluorescent lamp, including the new T5 circlines,
would
: be more efficient than the T9 circline lamps and you will be able
to
: find a matching high efficiency electronic ballast.
:
: --
: Vic Roberts
: http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com

Vic:

Thank you, this is a big fixture with a lot of room, perhaps 3, 13W
Compact Flourescents would do the trick or, and I will have to look
into this in terms of fit, perhaps the T5 Circlines.

Regards
Ken W
:

 

[Ken Williams]

:
:
: The Am. Lighting Assoc. and NEMA have teamed up to publish a list
(a spread
: sheet, actually) of energy-efficient lamp and ballast combinations
: recommended for use in residential lighting equipment. All of the
listings
: have gone through the Energy Star approval process.
:
: You can download the list at:
http://www.nema.org/lampballastmatrix/
:
: Several fixture manufacturers serving the residential market now
feature
: energy-efficient (usually also Energy Star) designs. One is Sea
Gull
: Lighting. They have a catalog featuring just their
energy-efficient
: offereings. You can also see them at:
http://www.seagulllighting.com/ .
: American Fluorescent is another company adding some classy new
efficient
: designs. They are at: http://www.americanfluorescent.com/
:
: Disclaimer: I have no business relationships with either company.
There
: are others, of course. I do provide technical support services to
the Am.
: Lighting Assoc. and became aware of these companies via that work.
:
: Terry McGowan


Thank you, will have a look at all of that, looks like a lot of
options to sift through. Like projects like this, am going to
learn...

Regards
Ken W