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How to secure an abandoned building that has pigeons, etc.?

A

autonut843

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
This'll sound wierd and some may think I have an alterior motive.
I don't, I'm just curious. Years ago I ran across the book 'The New
American Ghetto' by Camilo Jose Vergara at the library. It chronicles
the decline of buildings as they go from useful to abandoned to torn
down. I never would have thought about stuff like this but I found the
book fascinating. One of the buildings it has pictures of is the
Michigan Central Train Station in Detroit. This week for some reason I
got curious, 'I wonder what ever happened to that building?' (Did it
get torn down, fixed up, still abandoned?) (I live many states away
from Detroit.) so I started googling. Found out that LOTS of people
have wandered through the empty building and have pix on the web
showing what they saw. Amazing. One person mentioned that now the
building is sealed up with alarms so nobody can get in any more.

So that got me thinking. Here you have this huge building that has all
the windows broken out, has been severely vandalized over the years,
has an immense perimeter, but has been a magnet for people to go
exploring and vandalizing in.
let's say they brick up the lower two or 3 floors of windows and secure
that. I assume they would put standard magnet switches on the secured
lower perimeter doors. But, since (As Vergara's book documents)
frequently people will just bread a hole in the wall to get in, or
maybe climb up to an upper window that wasn't bricked up. How would
you alarm a building like this? I would think you'd HAVE to have
interior motions of some sort, but I would think that the pigeons and
any other animals that get in would cause lots of false alarms.

Before someone starts thinking that I want to go in some building and
bypass the security. That's not my intention at all. I've got too
much to lose to risk wandering through abandoned buildings. (wife,
kids, mortgage...) I just can't see how you could secure something
like that economically and not have tons of false alarms. I know how
to secure an enclosed building that is maintained. I am just curious
how one would handle a partially open situation like this?

Thanks,
Middle Aged Curious Nerd
 
A

Allan Waghalter

Jan 1, 1970
0
It may just be that you have too much time on your hands.
 
R

Rocky T Squirrel

Jan 1, 1970
0
large areas that are not temp. controlled can be a problem, but using
photobeam detectors as trap sensors and the magnet door switches you
mentioned a reasonable amount of security can be had for such a building as
you described..
RTS
 
M

mikey

Jan 1, 1970
0
My first guess would be acid but it sounds more like one
of those smoke revelations, seems less profound when
you're straight. Let's look at this again tomorrow.

Hi,
This'll sound wierd and some may think I have an alterior motive.
I don't, I'm just curious. Years ago I ran across the book 'The New
American Ghetto' by Camilo Jose Vergara at the library. It chronicles
the decline of buildings as they go from useful to abandoned to torn
down. I never would have thought about stuff like this but I found the
book fascinating. One of the buildings it has pictures of is the
Michigan Central Train Station in Detroit. This week for some reason I
got curious, 'I wonder what ever happened to that building?' (Did it
get torn down, fixed up, still abandoned?) (I live many states away
from Detroit.) so I started googling. Found out that LOTS of people
have wandered through the empty building and have pix on the web
showing what they saw. Amazing. One person mentioned that now the
building is sealed up with alarms so nobody can get in any more.

So that got me thinking. Here you have this huge building that has all
the windows broken out, has been severely vandalized over the years,
has an immense perimeter, but has been a magnet for people to go
exploring and vandalizing in.
let's say they brick up the lower two or 3 floors of windows and secure
that. I assume they would put standard magnet switches on the secured
lower perimeter doors. But, since (As Vergara's book documents)
frequently people will just bread a hole in the wall to get in, or
maybe climb up to an upper window that wasn't bricked up. How would
you alarm a building like this? I would think you'd HAVE to have
interior motions of some sort, but I would think that the pigeons and
any other animals that get in would cause lots of false alarms.

Before someone starts thinking that I want to go in some building and
bypass the security. That's not my intention at all. I've got too
much to lose to risk wandering through abandoned buildings. (wife,
kids, mortgage...) I just can't see how you could secure something
like that economically and not have tons of false alarms. I know how
to secure an enclosed building that is maintained. I am just curious
how one would handle a partially open situation like this?

Thanks,
Middle Aged Curious Nerd
 
B

Bill

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've seen buildings such as this have systems ranging from just a few basic
sensors to full blown everything.

And that is the thing with alarms. Depends on what the customer wants and
the company installing the system. There are many different customers and
many different alarm companies.

So far as bypassing systems... What they show on TV is nonsense - placing a
jumper or two in an electrical box. This is silly. Some companies
manufacture their own custom alarm panels. Few people would know about this.
Nothing is labeled. Even the employees working for these companies have
trouble understanding how these systems work let alone a burglar! Add to
this the variables of different customers and different companies, then no
telling what may be in a particular building!

Also sometimes there are paranoid customers or customers who are bound and
determined to catch whoever is doing something. These customers will spend a
small fortune on this and that. So add that to the mix as well.
 
A

autonut843

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks Bill and Rocky,
Yeah my first thought was photobeam sensors as well, but I would think
that pigeons flying in front of them would cause false alarms. I know
the TV stuff is nonsense. I always crack up when I see them putting
the mirrors in front of a visible beam so they can open a safe door or
something. Obviously they've never even tried to figure out what
really doesn't work or what hasn't been on the market for 10 years or
more. Like I said, my interest wasn't in bypassing, my curiosity was
along the lines of, 'how could you secure something like that?'.
Considering how I've never heard of anybody successfully bypassing the
security at, say, Home Depot (where you can see all the sensors and
keypads while you are shopping there), I seriously doubt anybody could
successfully bypass the security at a building where they've never even
seen where the sensors are. Maybe a more realistic scenario would have
been an outdoor lumberyard or loading dock or something like that. I
just gave the building details to see how professionals would approach
the problem.
Thanks guys!
 
B

Bill

Jan 1, 1970
0
...Considering how I've never heard of anybody successfully bypassing the
security at, say, Home Depot (where you can see all the sensors and
keypads while you are shopping there), I seriously doubt anybody could
successfully bypass the security at a building where they've never even
seen where the sensors are...

So far as large retail stores, it is not unusual for someone to be there 24
hours a day. At night they restock the shelves and clean the floors. Many
have setups where certain portions of the store can have the alarm on but
other sections have the alarm off to allow restocking or cleaning. They have
things pretty well covered for loss from an outside or an inside person.

In general, alarms have been bypassed, but this is *very* rare. And I feel
the reason for this is WHO is doing the burglary in most cases. Most of
these people are not very bright to begin with. If they were, they would
probably have a job. Watch America's Dumbest Criminals and you will see your
typical burglar type.

In one situation I saw, there was a jewelry store which had bars on all the
windows and metal doors which required a key to open them from *either*
side. So this guy cuts a hole in the roof and jumps down into the store.
This triggered the alarm. Then he gathered up his loot and suddenly found he
could not get out of the store and could not get back up through the hole in
the roof! He was stuck there until the police arrived. Not very bright to
say the least. And this is how they are. Not capable of "thinking ahead" -
How am I going to get out of there, etc.

Then sometimes there are teenagers who don't know any better.

Of course there are a few bright and intelligent thieves. But I think most
of these types have gone to work for large corporations and spend their time
screwing you and I out of money by more legal methods.
 
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