Generator Problems and Connection

[AprilSteel]

I thought to post this just in case someone here knows a thing or two about larger Generators .
I just bought one , 26KVA with a WEG generator that boasts 43 KVA. 3 Cylinder Detroit diesel engine .

It has an oil pressure gauge and a temp gauge and some sort of control box which has disappeared . It is about power point dimensions and about 3 inches deep with those plastic raised buttons on it.(I saw one on an identical machine)

What I seek to know is what does the control box do and is it a programmed microprocessor with or without radio remote ? Some of the wiring goes to a couple of seemingly 12 Volt auto relays . There is a warning on the outside of the enclosure that it turns on itself automatically so I suppose something senses the voltage on the line it is supplying and when none switches the motor on and starts generating power.

I would imagine it has a remote control somewhere on it but have not found that yet

Anybody have any experience or knowledge of these?
Perhaps someone might steer me to a manual ,workshop or user and/or a web site for the manufacturer or for an electrical generator type forum?

 

[duke37]

There used to be generators called Startomatics. My uncle had one to milk his cows, many years ago. It had a slow Lister diesel engine. The TV connected to it pulsed every time the engine fired. You may get some information by looking up Startomatic.
It was many years prior to microprocessors (1945?)

I have recently dealt with an emergency generator driven by a tractor. The control box was faulty. Its job was to measure the output voltage and control the field current to maintain it constant. This was a brushless system.
The circuit was potted in epoxy so could not be repaired but had to be replaced.

 

[AprilSteel]

A bit of extra info in that these types of units seem to use DSE 6020 genetic modules so if anyone has any inside knowledge on these it might be helpful
https://jeenda.en.alibaba.com/produ...E6020_Auto_Mains_Failure_Control_Module.html#!

 

[Kiwi]

Link to DSE6020 on Deep Sea Electronics website,
https://www.deepseaplc.com/genset/auto-mains-utility-failure-control-modules/dse6020mkii

The 6020 is an Automatic Mains Failure unit.
If the mains fail it will automatically disconnect the mains breaker, start the generator, and when the generator is up to speed it will close the generator breaker.
It also monitors the engine and generator for faults and will shut the generator down if faults are detected, high engine coolant temperature etc.

You need a login to access most of the information on the DSE site. I can post the wiring diagram if you want it, or you can search Google.

What is your application?

Do you need full AMF, or just manual controls?

 

[AprilSteel]

Thank You . A Circuit diagram would help . Its to go as a backup generator to a remote site so AMF .

 

[Kiwi]

www.haiwaytech.com/site/files/dse6010-20-manual.pdf

Link to manual for the 6020.

Do you have the contactors, or have they been taken with the controller?

You will need a registered electrician to connect the mains wiring.

 

[AprilSteel]

Thanks . That seems to be the needed info . No, The contactors have been removed also I think . Yes on the Electrical Contractor of course . I am just gathering the information that I know will be needed by them. Trying to get ready and forearming myself on the price of replacements .

BTW Just in case you are familiar with those Chinese generators of 7KVA or thereabouts . I have one that seems to have a fault with the control module also. Diesel Motor starts, but will not run properly, even with hand control of the accelerator . All the oil levels and other cut outs have been checked . Is there a replacement option for the control module that you know of, that I could obtain and drop in?

 

[Kiwi]

Haven't had the misfortune to work on any of those small cheap Chinese generators. My guess is that parts, and service information, could be major issues. Probably cheaper to bin it, than trying to source parts to repair or modify it.

The Chinese generators I work on have engines and alternators made under licence to well known brands, eg Cummins, Perkins, Stamford etc.

 

[AprilSteel]

Too good an engine to scrap . Ill get it going

 

[Bluejets]

Pity the main contactors and housings are missing as they may set you back a few thousand especially with interlocks etc.

 

[AprilSteel]

I thought about contactors and housings .
What the heck are you guys on about ?

The generator feeds three phase to a distribution block and there is a voltage regulator and I assume those three outputs feed directly to the plug. What contactors are necessary?

What is an interlock. I think you lot are just having a shot

The controller however is about $400 and simply stops and starts the motor so thats no big deal

 

[Bluejets]

In a previous reply you said you needed it to be set up as Automatic Mains Fail so assumption was you knew what this meant. To achieve this, some means of detecting mains failure is required, usually a phase failure/undervolt relay, then the use of contactors to control the switching of the load from mains to gen set supply and of course back again on mains return. These are required to have both mechanical and electrical interlocks to prevent both supplies( in your install) from being connected at the same time. As they control perhaps 60 to 70 amp, they are a rather expensive piece of gear when interlocks are essential. Timers etc will take care of any spare extra cash as well as the install cost by a regestered electricial contractor and usually supply authority inspection. The latter in most countries being requred for systems over a minimum size. You may also be required to fit an additional circuit breaker to the main distribution board where your generator sub-main enters. All in all not plug and play like you imagine.

 

[Irv]

You must have an interlock that prevents generator voltage from feeding back to the nearest power transformer (usually on a pole near the street in the US), where your relatively low household AC made by the generator would be stepped up to perhaps 20,000 volts.

This voltage would come as quite a "shock" to power line workers who are expecting to be working on a dead power line. So after you have been beaten to a pulp by burly linemen who are angry because you have killed their buddy, and been arrested and paid a hefty fine and a lawyer to keep you out of jail for negligent homicide, finally your local power company - at least in this area - will put you on a "black list" to never be able to purchase mains power ever again.

 

[AprilSteel]

Bit of a nutter up above I guess

 

[hevans1944]

Bit of a nutter up above I guess

You seem to be casually ignorant of the perils of backfeeding your generator output into the mains supply. The mains supply is derived from a step-down distribution transformer whose primary is 7kV or more. Backfeeding this transformer with your generator set will energize the primary at its rated voltage, not a "good thing" if the mains has failed and utility workers are expecting the primary voltage to be zero while someone troubleshoots and repairs the problem.

Of course utility workers should test and verify that the primary side is in fact "dead" before working on it, but they have no control over some irresponsible idiot illegally backfeeding power from a generator set into the secondary of their supposedly "dead" distribution transformer, which would then come "alive" as soon as the backfeeding generator starts. Mechanical and electrical interlocks are designed to prevent backfeeding from occurring.

 

[davenn]

@AprilSteel

I am disappointed with your insulting responses to very good advice you were given

I have deleted a bunch of posts and closed the thread
please be more courteous with your responses in future

Thankyou to those that spent the time giving good advice, unfortunately it wasn't taken


Dave