DIY PCB manufacture - through hole plating

[Michael]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html

Now, I've seen mention of this "Multicore Copperset" system, but for
the life of me, I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock - it
seems to be a discontinued line. Alternatively, I'm trying to find just
the 'bail bar' refills, and I can try to do it myself, but I'm having
trouble finding anywhere that stocks them, too.

Failing that, I can always fall back to these linking pins, but that
seems like a bit of a waste to me - I may as well stick some solid-core
copper wire through the hole and solder it both sides - it seems to
work just as well.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss for any other ideas
on how to (easily) plate through holes.

Cheers, and thanks for any help,

Michael

 

[Nico Coesel]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

These days it is very cheap to have PCBs made. It may cost a bit more
and you have to wait longer, but especially double sided PCBs are well
worth the extra money spend.

 

[John Larkin]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html

Now, I've seen mention of this "Multicore Copperset" system, but for
the life of me, I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock - it
seems to be a discontinued line. Alternatively, I'm trying to find just
the 'bail bar' refills, and I can try to do it myself, but I'm having
trouble finding anywhere that stocks them, too.

Failing that, I can always fall back to these linking pins, but that
seems like a bit of a waste to me - I may as well stick some solid-core
copper wire through the hole and solder it both sides - it seems to
work just as well.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss for any other ideas
on how to (easily) plate through holes.

There's no "easily" here. Even the best PCB houses, with resident
chemists, screw it up from time to time.

If you want to make your own boards, poking wires into vias and
soldering is probably best. But you can get plated-through 2-side
boards cheap nowadays.

John

 

[Michael]

Whoops, I forgot to mention that I'm a hobbyst (sp?), as well as a poor
uni student.

I've seen many people make that same comment, and I guess I'd be
inclined to agree, however I'm interested in doing this for myself for
no real justifiable reason. I'm sure the excitement will wear off
pretty quickly, but I'd like to be able to whip little things up now
and then when I need it (and not have to fork out at least $50 to get
simple PCBs made from places like custompcb.com -- the only place
availble to me here in Brisbane, Australia, would cost a minimum of
about $400 for a single board. (that's from www.becman.com)).

Anyway, assuming that I'm making these myself, does anyone have any
ideas about the "Multicore Copperset" thing, or even the "bail bars"?

Thanks!

 

[Tim Wescott]

Whoops, I forgot to mention that I'm a hobbyst (sp?), as well as a poor
uni student.

I've seen many people make that same comment, and I guess I'd be
inclined to agree, however I'm interested in doing this for myself for
no real justifiable reason. I'm sure the excitement will wear off
pretty quickly, but I'd like to be able to whip little things up now
and then when I need it (and not have to fork out at least $50 to get
simple PCBs made from places like custompcb.com -- the only place
availble to me here in Brisbane, Australia, would cost a minimum of
about $400 for a single board. (that's from www.becman.com)).

Anyway, assuming that I'm making these myself, does anyone have any
ideas about the "Multicore Copperset" thing, or even the "bail bars"?

Thanks!

Two suggestions:

One: AFAIK plated-through holes are made by drilling either bare board
or very lightly plated board, treating the holes with conductive epoxy,
and plating on copper until the desired thickness is reached. Then you
etch the rest of the board.

Two: See if you can get a job at that PC fab house! Assuming that your
major is some technical discipline it'll look damn good on your resume,
you'll learn _lots_ about fabbing boards, and who knows -- maybe you'll
be able to sneak some of your boards into the process!

 

[Michael]

1) Hrm, is this similar to the chemical process used by professional
manufacturers in the big expensive tanks? I looked into that, when
researching the process (albeit, not too deeply) but decided that I'd
stick to something more mechanical (ha, maybe chemicals just scare me
:-D ). I don't mind having to spend a bit of time putting the little
eyelets or pins or bars in holes and punching them, I just havn't been
able to find a supplier for this "Copperset" stuff or the bail bars
that a few websites seem to talk about. Then again, if everyone agrees
that this chemical process is the way to go, I might look into a bit
more (assuming it's relatively economical).

2) Ha, don't worry, I've tried. I'm doing Computer Systems
Engineering, so playing with PCBs and embedded devices is right up my
alley -- but it's hard convincing them that a lowly uni student needs
to work there.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Glenn Ashmore]

Digikey can special order a Copperset kit for about $350. The bails cost
$65/stick. You can order a whole lot of boards for that kind of cash.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

 

[Andy]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html

Now, I've seen mention of this "Multicore Copperset" system, but for
the life of me, I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock - it
seems to be a discontinued line. Alternatively, I'm trying to find just
the 'bail bar' refills, and I can try to do it myself, but I'm having
trouble finding anywhere that stocks them, too.

Failing that, I can always fall back to these linking pins, but that
seems like a bit of a waste to me - I may as well stick some solid-core
copper wire through the hole and solder it both sides - it seems to
work just as well.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss for any other ideas
on how to (easily) plate through holes.

Cheers, and thanks for any help,

Michael

Not exactly the system you mention, but something that might be useful
(I have not tried however): there exist metallization rivets, produced
by CIF. They are a bit thick: for 0.8mm final hole a 1.3mm hole in the
PCB is required, for 1.1mm - 1.6mm. A picture can be found here:

http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/pagecatalogue/10-13.pdf

A rivet tool is required as well (on the picture). I am not sure if
Selectronic would ship these items abroad. I think the same things are
sold by Farnell (at least in Europe), order codes 4208742, 4208754,
4208766, but you'd need to validate it with Farnell as they don't
provide details.

-- Andy

 

[Rick Fox]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html

Now, I've seen mention of this "Multicore Copperset" system, but for
the life of me, I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock - it
seems to be a discontinued line. Alternatively, I'm trying to find just
the 'bail bar' refills, and I can try to do it myself, but I'm having
trouble finding anywhere that stocks them, too.

Failing that, I can always fall back to these linking pins, but that
seems like a bit of a waste to me - I may as well stick some solid-core
copper wire through the hole and solder it both sides - it seems to
work just as well.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss for any other ideas
on how to (easily) plate through holes.

Cheers, and thanks for any help,

Michael

Farnell sell them, they have pretty-much world-wide distribution:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=463929&N=0

I've used dozens (maybe a hundred) of them, they work great. The
method given on your link is fine, pretty much how I do it. The Pentel
pencil is ideal. I've never had a failure. It makes soldering both
sides of a component when only the bottom is available (under big
capacitors or D-connectors for instance) easy.

If its just a via (connection from top-to-bottom with no component)
use wire - it's cheaper.

Another way to do connections from top to bottom when only the bottom
is available for soldering, is to solder a fine strand of wire through
the hole, to the edges of the hole, before inserting the component and
soldering it at the bottom. Occasionally the wire lifts on the top
when the bottom is soldered again though.

Rick.

 

[John Larkin]

Not exactly the system you mention, but something that might be useful
(I have not tried however): there exist metallization rivets, produced
by CIF. They are a bit thick: for 0.8mm final hole a 1.3mm hole in the
PCB is required, for 1.1mm - 1.6mm. A picture can be found here:

http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/pagecatalogue/10-13.pdf

A rivet tool is required as well (on the picture). I am not sure if
Selectronic would ship these items abroad. I think the same things are
sold by Farnell (at least in Europe), order codes 4208742, 4208754,
4208766, but you'd need to validate it with Farnell as they don't
provide details.

-- Andy

Rivets/eyelets are 1960's technology and have lots of problems of
their own. The classic US vendor was USM, United Shoe Machinery Co.


Hey, this is cool:

http://home.att.net/~thercaselectron/tech3.html


John

 

[Robert Baer]

There's no "easily" here. Even the best PCB houses, with resident
chemists, screw it up from time to time.

If you want to make your own boards, poking wires into vias and
soldering is probably best. But you can get plated-through 2-side
boards cheap nowadays.

John

When i made my own 2-sided boards during the "good old" tape daze, i
did my best to use DIP pins and part leads for as many of the
top-to-bottom connections as possible.
Aboout 10 percent (at most) of needed connections i did by the wire
method (as suggesed).

 

[Robert Baer]

Whoops, I forgot to mention that I'm a hobbyst (sp?), as well as a poor
uni student.

I've seen many people make that same comment, and I guess I'd be
inclined to agree, however I'm interested in doing this for myself for
no real justifiable reason. I'm sure the excitement will wear off
pretty quickly, but I'd like to be able to whip little things up now
and then when I need it (and not have to fork out at least $50 to get
simple PCBs made from places like custompcb.com -- the only place
availble to me here in Brisbane, Australia, would cost a minimum of
about $400 for a single board. (that's from www.becman.com)).

Anyway, assuming that I'm making these myself, does anyone have any
ideas about the "Multicore Copperset" thing, or even the "bail bars"?

Thanks!

The oly other altenate i can think of is to use copper or brass
rivets, then solder them (both sides).

 

[Fred Bartoli]

Rivets/eyelets are 1960's technology and have lots of problems of
their own. The classic US vendor was USM, United Shoe Machinery Co.


Hey, this is cool:

http://home.att.net/~thercaselectron/tech3.html

Wow, did you see this? http://home.att.net/~thercaselectron/sel4096.html

Incredible.

 

[Peter H]

Hi all,

I've started making my own PCBs at home, and have been having great fun
-- until I've run into problems with making through-hole components and
plating vias. I've had a look at a lot of sites, and there seems to be
a lot of information, such as on this one:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/pcbs.html

Now, I've seen mention of this "Multicore Copperset" system, but for
the life of me, I can't seem to find anywhere that has it in stock - it
seems to be a discontinued line. Alternatively, I'm trying to find just
the 'bail bar' refills, and I can try to do it myself, but I'm having
trouble finding anywhere that stocks them, too.

Failing that, I can always fall back to these linking pins, but that
seems like a bit of a waste to me - I may as well stick some solid-core
copper wire through the hole and solder it both sides - it seems to
work just as well.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss for any other ideas
on how to (easily) plate through holes.

Cheers, and thanks for any help,

Michael

Don't go down the chemical route !
I was a PCB production manager for ten years and developed a lot of the
multilayer techniques.
The electroless process (depositing copper down holes) begins with a strong
solution of fluoroboric acid which eats glass (and many other things !)
This is where the alarm bells start ringing and you should start thinking
about the other methods - don't do it !
Good luck
Pete

 

[Michael]

Digikey can special order a Copperset kit for about $350. The bails cost
$65/stick. You can order a whole lot of boards for that kind of cash.

Ouch! I was under the impression that they were a lot cheaper (the
bails that is, if not the kit itself) - I was planning on getting a
stack of bails and then figuring out some way of punching them in
myself. Run over the tops with some solder paste and a hot air gun...
voila!

Ahhh, I can but dream.

Michael

 

[Michael]

Not exactly the system you mention, but something that might be useful
(I have not tried however): there exist metallization rivets, produced
by CIF. They are a bit thick: for 0.8mm final hole a 1.3mm hole in the
PCB is required, for 1.1mm - 1.6mm. A picture can be found here:

http://www.selectronic.fr/upload/produit/pagecatalogue/10-13.pdf

A rivet tool is required as well (on the picture). I am not sure if
Selectronic would ship these items abroad. I think the same things are
sold by Farnell (at least in Europe), order codes 4208742, 4208754,
4208766, but you'd need to validate it with Farnell as they don't
provide details.

Hrm, that's looking promising -- I was originally planning on just
getting a nice, specific purspose system (like the Copperset thing) but
now it looks like I might have to run with rivets of some sort. Do you
know if you have to solder them afterwards? (or do you have to do that
with most of these punch-metal style systems?) My french (?) skills
arn't that great - I speak aussie most of the time, maaaate. ;-)

Now, to only find them in smaller sizes....

Michael

 

[Michael]

Farnell sell them, they have pretty-much world-wide distribution:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=463929&N=0

Excellent! For some reason, I couldn't find them. I think I lack the
search-engine-mastery gene.

I've used dozens (maybe a hundred) of them, they work great. The
method given on your link is fine, pretty much how I do it.

Actually, can I just clarify something - if you use a pacer (pencil)
thing to put them in, do you still need the expensive kit? Or is that
just an expensive applicator device?

And, similarly, my original link mentions a 'modified centre hole
punch' - for the life of me, the image I have in my head for a centre
hole punch wouldn't have a hope of doing anything useful to a PCB. how
does that all work?

If its just a via (connection from top-to-bottom with no component)
use wire - it's cheaper.

Yeah, that's what I'm planning on doing - the only problem is I'm
planning on doing a lot of double-sided SMT stuff, and a lot of vias
are under (very) flat ICs. In the past, I've found it a real bother to
get the ICs to sit flat for soldering with bumps underneath them.

Does this method come out much 'flatter' that the ol' wire method?


Thanks for your help,

Michael

 

[Michael]

Don't go down the chemical route !
I was a PCB production manager for ten years and developed a lot of the
multilayer techniques.
The electroless process (depositing copper down holes) begins with a strong
solution of fluoroboric acid which eats glass (and many other things !)
This is where the alarm bells start ringing and you should start thinking
about the other methods - don't do it !

Hahaha, thanks for the heads up.

Personally, I'm actually a little afraid of using chemicals for
everything - it's bad enough using developer and then Ammonium
Persulphate to etch PCBs. I think it's just a lack of exposure to
chemicals, though - I'll get over it soon.

Cheers!

Michael

 

[Andy]

Rivets/eyelets are 1960's technology and have lots of problems of
their own.

Granted. But the newer technology is not always better in every aspect.
That's why I guess Farnell stocks both. Depending on requirements, the
rivets could be optimal.I could use them in occasional prototyping, in
particular for the holes receiving the components. Even for the vias;
soldering a wire as a via can be fun: when it desolders on the other
side and either turns in every bad direction.

Hey, this is cool:

http://home.att.net/~thercaselectron/tech3.html

Yes, it is! A clever idea.

-- Andy

 

[Andy]

Hrm, that's looking promising -- I was originally planning on just
getting a nice, specific purspose system (like the Copperset thing) but
now it looks like I might have to run with rivets of some sort. Do you
know if you have to solder them afterwards?

Well, even if it was not specified (the Selectronics's page is mute on
the subject), I would advise so, to ensure the contact. And then, you
can solder the components in the rivets. This would facilitate the later
replacement of the component, compared to soldering the component
directly to the copper on both sides of the board.

(or do you have to do that
with most of these punch-metal style systems?)

I am not sure which system you mean, but the Copperset thing does
involve soldering.

My french (?) skills
arn't that great - I speak aussie most of the time, maaaate. ;-)

Oh, good yakka at the uni then, cobber!

Now, to only find them in smaller sizes....

This may be problematic. I have not seen such rivets in smaller sizes.

-- Andy