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cleaner wiring solution needed

F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon® said:
I said you didn't have to enforce anything but you could.
If client doesn't answer repeated certified return reciept
demands for payment you certainly *could* impede his
use of system.


That could well expose you to a liability situation that you might want to
reconsider. All I'm saying is that we (as security professionals) have a
"duty of care" to all our customers (even the ones that are "slow payers").
You have the option of terminating his service, and if you happen to own the
equipment (or they haven't paid for it yet), you can always cancel their
service and remove the system. Disabling it, or rendering it inoperable is
not an option (at least in my book).


I had a guy once that skirted every attempt to
collect, and infact owed me a few bucks on the
actual install...he would send me 10 bucks here,
a couple of bucks there, this went on for over a
year, closer to 2 years by the time I took him to
small claims. Sent him to collections...nothing!...
I knew he WAS using the system because I had
programmed opening closings and daily tests and
could prove it. Took him to small claims court and
won...got my money + % + expenses. The judge
did ask me...why didn't you just turn him off?
I shoulda.


Yes. You could terminate his service with the proper notice. I've run into
a customer like this as well. Every check he wrote to us bounced from the
"get go". He was difficult to get ahold of and I had thought of changing
the master code on the system so he couldn't use it but decided against it
because there was fire detection devices in the system and I didn't feel it
appropriate to endanger his family. As it turns out he was a real
screw-ball, left his wife and kids, made threats, etc. The wife's family
wound up paying for the system and we changed the access codes for her when
she got a restraining order on him.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Many years ago ADT used to use multi-conductor "rainbow" wire. They would
run the stuff all around in the basement of a home. Each sensor or key
station was spliced into the cable in a tampered J-box.


Westec in Edmonton used to do that too... Ahhhh... the "good old days"...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon® said:
How do you obtain liability and e/o insurance without
a contract? Don't insurance carriers require to see
your contract in Canada? The do here. You can't
get insurance without the insurance carrier approving
your contract.


Our carrier insisted on reviewing our contract as well. They also told us
it was one of the best they'd ever seen. I love my Lawyer. She's cute
too... :))

Contacts are to protect you and your client. And you
don't have to enforce anything in the contract if you
don't want to.

Exactly.
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ahhhh... the "good old days"...

Since you've never been an installer, how would you know anything about the
"good old days?"
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Since you've never been an installer, how would you know anything about
the "good old days?"


Heh... My, my... we are a bit "testy" these days... You should relax a
bit. Remember how nice it was on the beach in Brazil. No phone calls. No
email. No website... No customers... Just the gentle breeze wafting all
your cares away...

You're capable of so much "better", Robert. But posting dirty little
suppositions, innuendo, and outright lies about people you don't even know
has become your special hallmark, hasn't it?? Does it make you feel better?
How do you justify it (I mean being that you're a former Christian Minister
and all)??
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fire detection adds another dimension to the liability...however, he has an obligation ...paying me. I kept careful records of every phone call (date & time & msg left if he wasn't home) AND sent out at least 8 demand letters via certified return reciept - which he DID sign for.

I was totally covered - if I wasn't the judge woulda said something other than what he did.

I never do this lightly...if I did I would have taken action much sooner...not wait over a year+. He had every opportunity to respond...but didn't. I'm very reasonable when it comes to working out payment plans if people are having problems, he could have talked to me at least. But, he didn't because his intent was to NOT ever pay...his token payments were made to keep me quiet, not satisfy his obligation.

I have another story like this only more involved...later.
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
hehee...mine isn't too cute...she was at one time...but she is good. She said the contract I wrote was good but WAY too verbose. She's working on simplifying it now.

I know it's good because it stood the scrutiny of several attorneys for a couple of nutjobs that tried to sue me... one even sent the contract he signed with me in a complaint to the state attorney general...who told him that he didn't have a case. One of his downfalls was that he whited-out his signature when he copied it and sent it to the AG...of course I had the original WITH his signature on it. This guy was a real maroon ! :)
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yah...Westec did that here too...man their wire costs musta been high.
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fire detection adds another dimension to
the liability...however, he has an obligation
...paying me.

While this client was obviously just a deadbeat deserving of whatever you
could lawfully do, there are times when a gentler approach may be better.
In the late eighties there was a downturn in the economy. A lot of people
were suddenly out of work. A fair number of our clients informed us that
they would not be able to pay for monitoring because they were out of work.

I called each one back and told them that their alarm would be monitored for
free for one year. After about a year and a half things started to pick up.
Most people were working again. I think we lost around five clients total.
However, those were made up for many fold by referrals from appreciative
clients who we carried for a year without payment. During the time when
many other small alarm companies failed or were sold, we actually grew our
RMR base.

Obviously that would not help with a deadbeat client like the one you
described. But when good customers go through hard times the best thing you
can do for your business is to treat them well. They'll stay with you
forever and you'll get their friends and families too.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yah...Westec did that here too...man their wire costs musta been high.



Westec Edmonton was a darn good outfit. Mostly high end, high visibility
residential. I recall one of their sales guys getting really upset with the
company I was working for there. We'd switched to Ademco products when ADI
opened their branch in Edmonton and started installing Vista 40's almost
exclusively. We'd home-run everything in an area of one of these "monster"
houses (front upper, back upper, front lower, and back lower) to expanders
in a convenient closet. When Westec took over one of our pre-wires, well,
golly gosh darn, the only points that were home run to the actual control
unit were in the basement (+ the keypads). "What?" I asked. "You mean
you've never heard of an addressable system??"

The Edmonton franchise holders sold the whole kit and kaboodle to ADT in
around 1986/87. They walked away with a really nice "pile" of change...
That's when more than just the name went into the toilet. ADT was selling
the $395 systems then and their residential service sucked. They couldn't
obtain parts for the Westec panels from California and the customers with
these systems wound up bailing on them big time.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
While this client was obviously just a deadbeat deserving of whatever you
could lawfully do, there are times when a gentler approach may be better.
In the late eighties there was a downturn in the economy. A lot of people
were suddenly out of work. A fair number of our clients informed us that
they would not be able to pay for monitoring because they were out of
work.

I called each one back and told them that their alarm would be monitored
for free for one year. After about a year and a half things started to
pick up.


<snip> Robert. I've gotta hand it to you. You are "masterful". So, your
story goes, that you monitored the clients "for free" for one year and in a
year plus a bit you did what?? Cancel their monitoring service?? Would
that the phone company, electric utility, gas utility, financial institution
(that held their mortgage) would be as generous. How many of these so
called "friends" of yours wound up losing their houses after a year and a
bit?

When the economy picked up and new people bought in, did you actually retain
the business or did they give you a sob story about how much money they
spent and couldn't afford monitoring?? "Please understand Mr. Bass, and
since you carried Mr. Finklestein for a whole year couldn't you extend us
the same service? You can?? Oh, Mr. Bass, you're such a Mensch! I'll
phone my schwester Anna and she'll immediately transfer her account to you
as well."

Your "story" doesn't wash (in fact it's down right "fishy"), and certainly
doesn't pay the bills your own business incurred in that period. What you
failed to think about is that in a "down-turned economy" your sales would
have dropped way off too. Monitoring someone "for free" ensures they
perceive your service as a "zero overhead" business which begs the
question... If you sell me an alarm system, or I buy the house it's
installed in, why not monitor it "for free"??

Most people were working again. I think we lost around five clients
total. However, those were made up for many fold by referrals from
appreciative clients who we carried for a year without payment. During
the time when many other small alarm companies failed or were sold, we
actually grew our RMR base.

Sure you did...

Obviously that would not help with a deadbeat client like the one you
described. But when good customers go through hard times the best thing
you can do for your business is to treat them well. They'll stay with you
forever and you'll get their friends and families too.

Uh-huh... This has got to be one of the most patently false "testimonials"
I've seen you write. Which also begs the question (that you've never
answered): "Did *you* really write "The Testimony"?"
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
We'd switched to Ademco products when
ADI opened their branch in Edmonton...

Hmm. No one at ADI Edmonton has ever heard of you. Was this before, during
or after your stint as an air traffic accident investigator?
... When Westec took over one of our
pre-wires, well, golly gosh darn, the only
points that were home run to the actual
control unit were in the basement (+ the
keypads). "What?" I asked. "You mean you've never heard of an
addressable
system??"

Hmm. Westec called you in to consult while they were taking over your
unsatisfied customer's systems? Interesting.
The Edmonton franchise holders sold the
whole kit and kaboodle to ADT in around
1986/87. They walked away with a really
nice "pile" of change...

And they of course told you this. :^)
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
<snip> Robert. I've gotta hand it to you...

You never had it to hand over.
You are "masterful". So, your story goes,
that you monitored the clients "for free"
for one year and in a year plus a bit you
did what?? Cancel their monitoring
service??

We kept right on monitoring them. Almost all of the started paying once
they were working again.
Would that the phone company, electric
utility, gas utility, financial institution
(that held their mortgage) would be as
generous...

I know several people who lost their homes during the crash. Most just had
to tighten their belts and took lower paying jobs. A few lost everything.
How many of these so called "friends" of
yours wound up losing their houses after
a year and a bit?

I'm not sure how many lost their homes. I did what I could for my customers
during a hard time and was very well rewarded for it later. I have no
regrets.
Your "story" doesn't wash (in fact it's down
right "fishy"), and certainly doesn't pay the
bills your own business incurred in that
period...

Since you've never owned an alarm company I don't expect you to know much
about this but in fact it costs no more to monitor paying accounts plus a
few non-paying accounts than it does to monitor paying accounts alone. It
often costs almost nothing to be kind (another concept which obviously
escapes you).
What you failed to think about is that in a
"down-turned economy" your sales would have dropped way off too...

Our sales were down somewhat but we were able to keep going. By that time I
had enough RMR to get by without any new sales at all.
Monitoring someone "for free" ensures they perceive your service as a
"zero overhead"
business...

Helping a good customer out when they need it is just good business sense.
Again, I don't expect you to understand since (1) you neer help anyone; and
(2) you're not in business.
which begs the question... If you sell me an
alarm system...

No need to beg. I wouldn't sell you anything under any circumstances.
There are people who you just don't want as a client under any
circumstances.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Hmm. No one at ADI Edmonton has ever heard of you. Was this before,
during or after your stint as an air traffic accident investigator?

Well after. "Olson" is not the name on my license (driver's, pilot's, or
installer's). It's no wonder they haven't "heard of me".

Hmm. Westec called you in to consult while they were taking over your
unsatisfied customer's systems? Interesting.

Nope. It was a new house. We did all the pre-wires and installations for
this particular builder. Westec had sold the new owner (one of their
customers already) on one of their "5000" systems and wound up walking into
our pre-wire. It was pretty funny actually. When the owner saw the
features of our equipment compared to the much more expensive Westec product
he was pretty impressed. He was able to back out of the contract with them
because they wouldn't have been able to complete without his incurring
substantially more expense. We did the best pre-wire in the industry. Full
perimeter.

And they of course told you this. :^)

Nope. Standard industry knowledge. They had 2800 accounts when they sold
to ADT and were charging $30.00 a month for each one... You "do the math".
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
... "Olson" is not the name on my license (driver's,
pilot's, or installer's). It's no wonder they haven't
"heard of me".

Hahahahhahahahahahahaha.. What a crock of jiminex.
Nope. It was a new house.

It never happened. Like all of your tales of greatness, it's a fiction.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Hahahahhahahahahahahaha.. What a crock of jiminex.

I know it's difficult for you to understand... but you're just not going to
be able to go "real life" with me like you did with Graham (and countless
others)... That just "eats at you" doesn't it??

It never happened. Like all of your tales of greatness, it's a fiction.

Heh... Would you like an apple pie with that?? ;-))
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually, this is not as uncommon as you might think. I and other small
dealers of my acquaintance do this on occasion when the situation warrants
it. Recently there was a huge downturn in the local Ottawa marketplace and
thousands of high tech types lost their jobs. A few called me up and asked
to disconnect the monitoring. When we discussed the situation, and I found
out why they wished to disconnect (morgaged to the hilt, no savings etc...),
I told them I would monitor their systems for no charge for a year, or until
things began to look up for them. If at that time, they wished to continue,
they could pay me past due, and continue. If they really wished to
disconnect, then that's fine too !!

Of the six or eight people who did this, a couple came back. The others
unfortunately were forced to sell their home and move on (these others must
have been in truly dire straits not to be able to afford $15 a month). But
at least during that time, they weren't left with no real protection, and I
do know I got some good press in their internal company newsgroups.

So, hey...what goes around comes around....

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
 
B

birdman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fast said:
If you knew anything at all about how online stores function you'd
understand.
well thanks to you I am learning.....................................
to not buy from basswipe boogeralarms.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually, this is not as uncommon as you
might think. I and other small dealers of
my acquaintance do this on occasion when
the situation warrants it...

I'm not at all surprised to learn that you've done the same thing I have.
It's just a combination of being nice and being a smart businessman. It's
nice to help good people when they're down. It's also good business sense
because you do get it back in the long run.
Of the six or eight people who did this,
a couple came back. The others unfortunately
were forced to sell their home and move on...

There were more than eight for us but fortunately most were able to continue
the service when things got better. I did do one thing differently though.
I told them that the year's was on me. When things got better they could
start with a fresh slate -- without having to pay for the free year I gave
them. This made it easier for them to decide to start paying again the
following year since they weren't saddled with a 2-year charge (we always
billed annually).
(these others must have been in truly dire
straits not to be able to afford $15 a month).
But at least during that time, they weren't
left with no real protection, and I do know
I got some good press in their internal
company newsgroups.

So, hey...what goes around comes around....

Exactly. It's neither surprising that you did this nor that some of the
others find it hard to understand. It's indicative of the kind of
businessman you are (and they aren't).

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
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