Maker Pro
Maker Pro

cleaner wiring solution needed

R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
No Crash, perhaps I didn't explain myself carefully enough. I do have a
signed contract and one that has been designed carefully for exactly the
reasons you describe. Anyone foolish enough to do business without a formal
contract deserves whatever they get. What I failed to explain was the term
of the contract is only "monthly"; never a multi year term on it, since all
my clients pay full market price up front. I also carry $2 million liability
with a failure to perfom clause as well. My business was set up properly at
the beginning according to all the rules of law and common sense procedures.
My overheads are properly covered in my business plan, and I make good money
at $14.95 monthly, including overhead costs for service and warranty (which
are built in and absolute - no exemptions for any reason).

Profit is not a dirty word. It makes the world of business go around.
Without it, we're all out on the street. The degree of profit each of us
makes is relative to our situations. It's all about what we provide for that
level of profit. I don't fault anyone for their level of profit (except the
Borg...); I've simply chosen a level of profit that 1- pays me well for my
work; 2- allows me to compete with others demanding more..and 3 - keeps me
from giving our greedy government more than they deserve...(so they can p*ss
it away on more useless $1BILLION programs like our disgusting "long gun
registry"....:(((

Regards,

RHC


How do you obtain liability and e/o insurance without a contract? Don't
insurance carriers require to see your contract in Canada? The do here. You
can't get insurance without the insurance carrier approving your contract.

Contacts are to protect you and your client. And you don't have to enforce
anything in the contract if you don't want to.

If you're a small company can you absorb the cost of protecting yourself
from a lawsuit without insurance and a valid contract to fall back on? If
you think some nutjob won't try to sue you someday..think again. Not
everyone is your friend.

Feeding at the trough? You don't think you have overhead for monitoring? -
mailing billing cost, keeping someone on call 24hrs to answer clients
questions, liability insurance, etc. You're adverse to making a fair profit?
If your third party monitoring station only charged you a $1.00 a month for
an account would you only charge $2.00 to your client?
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
ah..ok.

I do prefer to stay in the same price range as everyone else though. Most guys here are 20-24 bucks...with the occasional flyers at 15 & 35. One of the problems with going low is that as your base rises (like your's is, your overhead is going to rise as well) and you won't be able to increase your rates enough to cover...going from 14.95 to 15.95 wont be a problem but you'll never get them up to 20-24 if that's where you need to be. Especially at 14.95, with maintence? How are you factoring rising equipment costs...ADI raises prices 4% every year...wire fluctuates with copper market..buying batteries is like operating in the commodities market...you sound too low to me..but I don't know your market area.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Excellent! I assume that means you'll be stopping
by one of these days. I'll fire of the grill.

RHC: Look forward to it...
There is a law. It's called larceny. When you
sell something to someone and then secretly
disable it so that they must continue to pay
you after the agreed upon price has been paid
that is a form of theft. Alarm companies do
this all the time. They get away with it only
because most people are unwilling to fight
back or lack the knowledge of their rights.

RHC: In fairness, the vast majority of locked panels I come up against are
installed by the smaller companies. In my experience, larger firms don't
seem to do this, at least in our area. Unfortunately, consumers sometimes
don't seem to be too sophisticated and let industry of all sorts get away
with all sorts of things, usually because it's cheaper to simply pay again
rather than fight the entrenched bureacracy....
I'm considering buying a small "Ninja" bike --
not a real powerful one, just something to
buzz around town with.

RHC: If it's your first bike, I would recommend you take an approved
motorcycle safety course in your area. It's well worth the time and money
and might just save your life. I've been driving a motorcycle for over 40
years and occasionally retake the course to hone my skills. I always learn
something new every time...
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
What do you mean ? Can't be any more mixed up than most of the threads which
degenerate at times into all sorts of mud slinging and personal sh*t....

RHC

man, this thread is all mixed up.
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
mixed up is what i meant.

yah almost every thread ends up denigrated to mud slinging...we should do a "study" to see what the trend is...where the real topic ends and where the crapola begins. nah...not worth the time.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yeah, I agree. Sometimes I think "block sender" is the best thing about
Outlook Express....:)))

RHC

mixed up is what i meant.

yah almost every thread ends up denigrated to mud slinging...we should do a
"study" to see what the trend is...where the real topic ends and where the
crapola begins. nah...not worth the time.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
There is a law. It's called larceny.

Nope. The "law" you're referring to isn't called "larceny". "Larceny"
refers to a whole series of criminal activities which by their very nature
are "against the law". "Double billing" a customer's credit card (which you
have engaged in only recently) is a form of "larceny" for instance.

When you
sell something to someone and then secretly
disable it so that they must continue to pay
you after the agreed upon price has been paid
that is a form of theft.

Nope. No "law" I know of would identify what you just described as "theft".
Limiting access to installer level programming on a monitored alarm system
is only good business practice and designed to keep a customer from
inadvertently screwing up his alarm system. Using panel lock-outs is most
often used to restrict other alarm companies from easily taking over
equipment that is either leased or rented and not *owned* by the end user.
But then "tarring all alarm companies with the same brush" is a tactic you
frequently engage in to support your particular DIY "mantra".

Alarm companies do this all the time.


Nope. "They" don't. The better way to word this would be to say "some
alarm companies do", and I personally haven't seen this used to the extent
you imply for at least the last ten years (at least in my area of
operation).

They get away with it only
because most people are unwilling to fight
back or lack the knowledge of their rights.

What rights?? Their rights under an enforceable contract? Or their
"rights" to their personal property? It seems to me that most contracts
I've seen aren't as "simple" as the one you use yet clearly try to stipulate
the "rights" and expectations of the alarm owner and the alarm company.
Even your own contract sets a minimum annual term and requires a proper
notice period to cancel it. The fact that you're willing to "waive" that
period is a personal choice you can make, but it never-the-less does not
diminish the fact that the clause could also be easily enforceable.

I'm considering buying a small "Ninja" bike --
not a real powerful one, just something to
buzz around town with.

Make sure it has the "heavy duty" suspension package. :))
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Aegis said:
I have to disagree. An improvised power distribution bus is the best
technique, IMO.


I agree, but for the fact that some of the older control panels were housed
in much smaller cabinets. Robert's method (while crude) also allows you to
selectively disconnect powered devices for trouble-shooting. Another system
a number of companies use (including ours) is to use the yellow and black
wires (in your standard quad for contacts) and the green and red for
negative and positive power (respectively) for powered devices. If you wire
the keypads the way the manufacturer suggests it makes it easy to pick out
keypad power (which would still be red and black) from the other devices
attached to the aux power terminals.

A caution to the OP (I believe it was already mentioned) is to ensure you're
not exceeding the recommended output from your aux power terminals. Most of
the powered devices you have to attach come with specifications that often
include "standby" and "alarm" current draws. Always us the "alarm" spec
when calculating your system's power requirements. If you find you need an
additional power supply ensure you "common" the negatives of the system's
aux power and the extra power supply. You may have to house it in another
cabinet if you don't have room for two batteries.

Good luck!!
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
RHC: If it's your first bike, I would
recommend you take an approved
motorcycle safety course in your
area...

Oh, absolutely! I plan to sign up for
the first available class. There's a DOT
-approved course right here in town.
I think it repeats once a month or
something like that.

BTW, there's a low-powered version
of the Ninja that I've seen. I think it
would be a good starter bike until I
get used to riding. Later I'll probably
consider something with a bit more
juice in it.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
red/black for power
yel/green for loops
(that's my standard)
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nope. The "law" you're referring to isn't
called "larceny".

Yes, it is. You don't know what you're talking about.
"Larceny" refers to a whole series of
criminal activities which by their very
nature are "against the law".

Lots of things are "by their very nature against the law" -- not just
larceny. Stating so does not make you look knowledgeable (you're not). The
definition of larceny is "The unlawful taking and removing of another's
personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner;
theft." That definition most definitely includes deliberately depriving
someone of access to something which he has purchased.
"Double billing" a customer's credit card
(which you have engaged in only recently)
is a form of "larceny" for instance.

Nope. The client hit [Submit] twice. I didn't double-bill him. He did it
himself.
Nope. No "law" I know of...

Then again you've already demonstrated a dearth of knowledge of US law, not
to mention ethics.
But then "tarring all alarm companies
with the same brush" is a tactic you frequently engage in to support your
particular DIY "mantra".

Not *all* alarm companies ... just most of them.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Good stuff ! I got hooked on two wheels back in France in 1957 with a 49 cc
moped. I lived there for four years and drove across most of Europe in those
days with this little bike. Today, even a chain saw has a bigger motor...:))
Since then I've had about 20 different bikes, ending with the one I bought
last fall....a 1500 cc V twin touring bike....

See...www.flickr.com/photos/tourman

I don't know what model of bike you are planning on buying, but 250 ccs is
probably a good balance between power and physical size in order to be
comfortable on the thing. Most of the crotch rockets are not very
comfortable to ride, which takes away all the fun when you are still
learning. Kawasaki make a nice comfortable little 250 cc bike called the
Rebel. Or you could consider one of the new breed of scooters by Yamaha and
Suzuki; they are beautiful bikes in their own right and a real ball to
drive....

RHC
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Olson said:
Nope. The "law" you're referring to isn't called "larceny". "Larceny"
refers to a whole series of criminal activities which by their very nature
are "against the law". "Double billing" a customer's credit card (which you
have engaged in only recently) is a form of "larceny" for instance.

Frank why are you arguing with him about laws? He has much more experience
in the legal system than any of us here
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank why are you arguing with him about laws? He has much more experience
in the legal system than any of us here


You're quite right. My bad...
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L. Bass said:
Yes, it is. You don't know what you're talking about.

Say what??

Lots of things are "by their very nature against the law" -- not just
larceny. Stating so does not make you look knowledgeable (you're not).
The definition of larceny is "The unlawful taking and removing of
another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the
owner; theft."

Check... Larceny is not the law, though. And the law is not larceny (with
the exception of the hourly rate of most attorneys these days)... :))

That definition most definitely includes deliberately depriving someone of
access to something which he has purchased.

Nope. Not the same thing. You're not "unlawfully taking and removing
another individuals property". Nor are you depriving them from using it.
You're merely limiting access to qualified personnel.

"Double billing" a customer's credit card
(which you have engaged in only recently)
is a form of "larceny" for instance.

Nope. The client hit [Submit] twice. I didn't double-bill him. He did
it himself.

That's a pretty lame excuse. I suppose when you were waving your gun around
you were what; "Cooling the barrel"?? ;-)
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Good stuff ! I got hooked on two wheels
back in France in 1957 with a 49 cc moped...

I bought a moped something like thirty years ago just to bop around town.
It was a 50cc Puch Maxi. It would barely do 30 mph but it was fun and a
gallon of gas would go something like 100 miles IIRC. I've ridden a few
scooters since but nothing in the way of a true motorcycle.

Cool looking bike. Here's a picture of the one I'm thinking of buying.
This isn't the specific bike just the same model.
http://www.ninja250.org/profiles/images/da83moon_3.jpg?1109660243
I don't know what model of bike you are
planning on buying, but 250 ccs is probably
a good balance between power and physical
size in order to be comfortable on the thing...

That's encouraging since the bike I'm thinking of is exactly that -- 250cc.
I'm not planning any cross-country or even long distance day drives. I just
want something to run to the beach or pop over to see friends around town.
Most of the crotch rockets are not very comfortable to ride, which takes
away
all the fun when you are still learning...

True. I've also been told that starting out with a powerful bike is a good
way to get splattered.
Kawasaki make a nice comfortable little
250 cc bike called the Rebel.

This one's from Kawasaki but it's called a Ninja. I've seen a "Rebel 250"
but I think it's made by Honda. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's one other
bike that I've heard is supposed to be a good entry model. It's from Yamaha
and they call it the Virago. Have you seen either of these and if so, what
was your impression?
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank Olson said:
Say what??

I said you don't know what you're talking about. Is that clear?
Check... Larceny is not the law, though...

See above.
Nope. Not the same thing.

See above.
You're not "unlawfully taking and removing another individuals
property"...

When you unlawfully convert anything which belongs to someone else that is a
form of taking and the law considers it theft, or larceny.
Nor are you depriving them from using it.

When you impede the lawful owner from enjoying unrestricted use of his goods
that is unlawful conversion -- larceny.
You're merely limiting access to qualified
personnel.

Nonsense! When the contract is over and the client owns the alarm system
you have no right to limit anything. You're a thief. Admit it.
"Double billing" a customer's credit card
(which you have engaged in only recently)
is a form of "larceny" for instance.

Nope. The client hit [Submit] twice. I didn't double-bill him. He did
it himself.

That's a pretty lame excuse...

Since you not only don't know how to run a website or an alarm company, it's
unlikely you have a clue how credit card processing companies' servers (not
even my server, BTW) function.
 
B

birdman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fast Buck Bass wrote:

Lots of things are "by their very nature against the law" -- not just
larceny. Stating so does not make you look knowledgeable (you're not). The
definition of larceny is "The unlawful taking and removing of another's
personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner;
theft."

The client hit [Submit] twice. I didn't double-bill him. He did it

If you did not commit larceny and propose us to believe you didn't
double bill him because he "hit [Submit] twice" then why didn't you send
him 2 orders?
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Cracker said:
...then why didn't you send him 2 orders?

Hitting [submit] only sends the CC info to the CC processor's server. It
does not create a new order on the store's website.
 
Top