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Cities converting to LED streetlights

J

JohnR66

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ann Arbor MI is converting to LED streetlights to save of money over the
long run. LED street lights I have seen were not any more brighter than a
porch light. Up to 1200 lumens. This has me concerned about safety. I'm all
for saving the environment, but does this make sense?
John
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ann Arbor MI is converting to LED streetlights to save of money over the
long run. LED street lights I have seen were not any more brighter than a
porch light. Up to 1200 lumens. This has me concerned about safety. I'm all
for saving the environment, but does this make sense?

1. The light may be better directed, so for same illumination of areas
where the light needs to go less light output in lumens is required.

2. At streetlighting illumintion levels, in my experience human vision
is largely "mesopic". Although one sees things in focus and with color,
scotopic vision makes a significant contribution to "sensation of
illumination".
For example, look at two similar nighttime scenes illuminated equally
(for example, at 5 or 10 lux) but one with HPS and the other with ~4100K
metal halide that has scandium for greenish-bluish spectral contribution
(usual USA formulation, probably usual North America formulation). See
how the MH scene apears more-brightly-illuminated than the HPS scene does.
Most white LEDs have scotopic/photopic ratio similar to or greater than
that of the above metal halides.

3. HPS has very low color rendering index around 21-25, and with the
main color distortions being darkening/duling of reds and greens. The low
color temperature darkens/dulls blues. A higher color temperature, higher
color rendering index light source will achieve brighter overall
illumination where these colors have high presence even at same amount of
illumination by both photopic and scotopic measures.

4. I hear plenty that a lot of streetlighting is brighter than it needs
to be.

Now, if one were to retrofit some hypothetical HPS streetlighting
installation with metal halides achieving an illumination level towards
the lower end of an acceptable range, this might involve maybe 39 watt MH
lamps. Those have less life expectancy than higher wattage MH, and MH
tends to have less life expectancy than same wattage HPS. And 39 watt MH
lamps cost more than 175 watt ones, which cost more than 150 watt HPS
ones. Add to this labor costs of relamping, and at lower wattage per
fixture LEDs may sound only a little outrageous to maybe close to par in
overall cost over the life expectancy of the LEDs, even if the LEDs have
luminous efficacy only about the same as that of 39 watt metal halide or
even a bit less.
Furthermore, the politicians could gain votes for making the
streetlights more "modern" or "advanced" or "futuristic" even if the cost
is increased (preferably not by much) over the life expectancy of the
LEDs.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
The BetaLED lights from Ruud lighting have similar photometric output
to the MH lights they are replacing. When you use marketing spin and
compare scotopic lumens they are better. See
http://www.betaled.com/docs/LED.Beta.Comparison.Chart.pdf for a quick
comparison. If you look at their ies data using footcandle charts
they are pretty close in terms of footcandle output to a typical MH
fixture.

The scotopic/photopic discussion is interesting by totally
unrelated to the LED vs conventional source discussion.
There is no reason why metal halide lamps cannot be designed
to produce a SPD that gives high scotopic efficacy.


--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
1. The light may be better directed, so for same illumination of areas
where the light needs to go less light output in lumens is required.

So, if we are willing to live with less "spill" light (that
some people think is important for identifying people and
animals entering the roadway)

2. At streetlighting illumintion levels, in my experience human vision
is largely "mesopic". Although one sees things in focus and with color,
scotopic vision makes a significant contribution to "sensation of
illumination".
For example, look at two similar nighttime scenes illuminated equally
(for example, at 5 or 10 lux) but one with HPS and the other with ~4100K
metal halide that has scandium for greenish-bluish spectral contribution
(usual USA formulation, probably usual North America formulation). See
how the MH scene apears more-brightly-illuminated than the HPS scene does.
Most white LEDs have scotopic/photopic ratio similar to or greater than
that of the above metal halides.

And also believe that higher CCT provides an enhanced visual
experience
3. HPS has very low color rendering index around 21-25, and with the
main color distortions being darkening/duling of reds and greens. The low
color temperature darkens/dulls blues. A higher color temperature, higher
color rendering index light source will achieve brighter overall
illumination where these colors have high presence even at same amount of
illumination by both photopic and scotopic measures.

And want better CRI than HPS ...
4. I hear plenty that a lot of streetlighting is brighter than it needs
to be.

And have too much light to begin with ...
Now, if one were to retrofit some hypothetical HPS streetlighting
installation with metal halides achieving an illumination level towards
the lower end of an acceptable range, this might involve maybe 39 watt MH
lamps. Those have less life expectancy than higher wattage MH, and MH
tends to have less life expectancy than same wattage HPS. And 39 watt MH
lamps cost more than 175 watt ones, which cost more than 150 watt HPS
ones. Add to this labor costs of relamping, and at lower wattage per
fixture LEDs may sound only a little outrageous to maybe close to par in
overall cost over the life expectancy of the LEDs, even if the LEDs have
luminous efficacy only about the same as that of 39 watt metal halide or
even a bit less.
Furthermore, the politicians could gain votes for making the
streetlights more "modern" or "advanced" or "futuristic" even if the cost
is increased (preferably not by much) over the life expectancy of the
LEDs.

Then we can switch to LED street lamps instead of
redesigning the system with the right HID lamps and fixtures
that will save even more energy.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
J

JohnR66

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
So, if we are willing to live with less "spill" light (that
some people think is important for identifying people and
animals entering the roadway)

Some new HPS street lights in my area are very nice. As I drive, the distant
ones are barely visible with minimal spill. They seem to have three peak
lobes. One directly under and two at some angle to the side in line with the
road.

I can't see low output LEDs with a tight pattern under the light being much
of use. With the beam spead out, The lumen output is too weak. Even with
better color for night vision, they don't match the bruit power of HPS
lamps.
John
 
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