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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Presumably naturally ocurring mercury ores, which give off
enough vapour to cause the "Mad Hatter" disease of the miners,
contribute a goodly stream of vapour to the atmosphere through
the ground? I wonder if anyone has estimated what that is?
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find it was a good deal more
than anything from fluorescent lamp disposal.

I don't have the data handy since I'm working on a report
that's due tomorrow. But the answer is yes. Fluorescent
lamps contribute only a very small fraction of the total
mercury in both the waste stream and mercury vapor in the
air.


--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
We've made a little progress on www.cflfacts.com. A very
few questions and answers have been posted, just enough to
get started on the site design, and my web designer (my
son) has taken the raw text and given it a bit of class. The
site needs a lot more work, including graphics and links to
other sites with more graphics, but I would be interested in
your opinions on the site so far.

I haven't yet addressed the screw-base vs. pin-base issue
but have added part of the discussion about mercury. I
would appreciate comments.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0


Thanks. The first time I saw this sheet at www.nema.org I
thought that NEMA had produced it. Now I see it was
prepared by the EPA.

I do have a few concerns about the data presented.

1) The sheet states that an incandescent lamp will be
responsible for 10 mg of mercury emissions from coal-fired
power plants over a 10-year period, yet does not give the
power rating of the lamp or the number of hours burned per
year. I would prefer to see data that said "a 100-watt
incandescent lamp operating for 10,000 hours will cause X mg
of mercury to be released by coal-fired power plants."

2) The value of 10mg is far lower than I calculate for
typical incandescent lamps using published data on mercury
contamination of coal. Based on my calculations, 100-watt
incandescent lamps would create 40 mg of mercury emissions
from coal-fired power plants over a 10,000 hour period and,
since the emissions change linearly with lamp power, a
60-watt lamp would be responsible for 24 mg of mercury
emissions. So, where did the 10 mg value come from? I
don't think that EPA used a 25-watt lamp as typical.
However, their number is close to the average amount of
mercury emitted per kWh for power plants in the US using all
types of fuel - including those that don't emit any mercury
at all - when operating a 75-watt or 100-watt lamp for
10,000 hours. Yet their graph states "coal power plants."
Strange.

I prefer to use the value for coal-fired plants and then
state that not all electricity is produced by burning coal.
However, I do believe that when less electricity is needed
because more energy-efficient light sources are used, that
means we can hope the reduction in generating capacity will
occur first at those plants that produce the most pollution.
3) The mercury clean-up instructions given in this sheet are
at odds with the instructions given on the EPA web site, at
least for carpeted surfaces. I'm going to have to check
with EPA so I can understand this difference.

BTW - I'm also discussing mercury clean up recommendations
with a toxicologist who has published papers on mercury
contamination. and have found a number of low cost mercury
clean up kits for thermometer-size mercury spills, which
should work just as well with the much smaller amount of
mercury in a CFL.

However, the problem of what to recommend if a CFL breaks on
a carpet is unresolved. The EPA web site says that the
section of carpet must be cut out and disposed of, though
the EPA fact sheet you have referenced does not include this
warning. I'll try to find someone at the EPA who can
discuss this issue.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0

I was unable to find the document from the NEMA web site on
the EPA web site. This caused some confusion until Terry
McGowan put me in touch with someone at EPA & Energy Star
who is involved in the mercury issue. He confirmed that the
document at www.nema/org is out of date. The new Energy
Star CFL Fact Sheet is located at:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

We also discussed the fact that Energy Star identifies
GU-24-based CFLs as "self-ballasted pin base lamps" and the
use of "pin base" in this context may cause some confusion
with the use of "pin base" to identify a CFL that does not
have an integral ballast. It is possible that Energy Star
may remove the words "pin base" from this description.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Another tasty tidbit from the folks at

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

Thanks.

I'm returning from LS:11 in Shanghai today and will have
time once I return to get back to work on the CFL web site.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
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V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
This website checks your source and may give some debugging
suggestions if your coder is interested,

http://validator.w3.org/

or, if it works, directly, here

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=h...ctype=Inline&ss=1&outline=1&No200=1&verbose=1

You don't state your relationship with this site, but it
reports "errors" such as missing close and open tags, when
such errors do not exist in the source.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
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This information is provided for educational purposes only.
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M

Mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
You don't state your relationship with this site, but it
reports "errors" such as missing close and open tags, when
such errors do not exist in the source.

He doesn't need to state any relationship with the site. www.w3.org
IS the primary reference for html and css.

If your code fails their validators then it IS bad code and errors DO
exist......but that hasn't stopped millions of crap, badly coded,
overbloated websites being produced by uninformed, badly trained,
overpaid and over hyped so called web designers for the past decade or
so. But you may not give a rats ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web_Consortium



--
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
He doesn't need to state any relationship with the site. www.w3.org
IS the primary reference for html and css.

If your code fails their validators then it IS bad code and errors DO
exist......but that hasn't stopped millions of crap, badly coded,
overbloated websites being produced by uninformed, badly trained,
overpaid and over hyped so called web designers for the past decade or
so. But you may not give a rats ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web_Consortium

I do appreciate your kind words, but the fact remains that
the site in question claims that a number of closing tags
are missing when they are clearly there in the page source.
Other "errors" may also not exist, but I have checked only
the most obvious ones for now.

Why should I trust a site that makes such obvious errors
itself?

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
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This information is provided for educational purposes only.
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D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I do appreciate your kind words, but the fact remains that
the site in question claims that a number of closing tags
are missing when they are clearly there in the page source.
Other "errors" may also not exist, but I have checked only
the most obvious ones for now.

Why should I trust a site that makes such obvious errors
itself?

I just tried it on my homepage.

I find that it reports errors in poor ways, and some reported errors
were caused by prior errors.

Turns out that three missing </A> tags generated about a dozen error
messages, none of which were reporting of missing </A> tags. Most said
that subsequent <A> tags were not permitted by the doctype.

I fixed three actual errors, and the checker then had the only reported
error being a lack of doctype statement.

Possibly the error messages were generated by unrelated errors, and the
number of errors could be less than the number of error messages.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
Victor Roberts said:
I do appreciate your kind words, but the fact remains that
the site in question claims that a number of closing tags
are missing when they are clearly there in the page source.

Part of the problem is that the home page on cflfacts.com claims, in
the source, it conforms to XHTML 1.0:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

The validator at w3.org is therefore checking the page against the XHTML
1.0 specification. This is a relatively new standard, and among other
things, it seems to want XML-style closing tags like <i>this<i/>,
instead of the more common HTML style closing tags like <i>this</i>.

There is a drop-box at the top of the analysis page that allows you to
override the DOCTYPE declaration in the source and validate your page
against different standards; if you switch it to HTML 4.01 or HTML 3.2
it reports many fewer errors.

The first thing to do is probably to change the DOCTYPE declaration in
the source to something like HTML 4.01 or HTML 3.2. Then run the
validator again and fix what it reports.

HTML Tidy is a program that does about the same thing as the Web-based
validator above, except it can be run on your local machine while you're
developing the pages - you don't have to have them up on the Web yet.
See the info at http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ and download the
program at http://tidy.sourceforge.net/#binaries .
Why should I trust a site that makes such obvious errors itself?

Because they're in the brain. :) Arguing with W3C about HTML is kind
of like calling up CIE and telling them that their chromaticity diagram
is all screwed up.

Matt Roberds
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just tried it on my homepage.

I find that it reports errors in poor ways, and some reported errors
were caused by prior errors.

Turns out that three missing </A> tags generated about a dozen error
messages, none of which were reporting of missing </A> tags. Most said
that subsequent <A> tags were not permitted by the doctype.

I fixed three actual errors, and the checker then had the only reported
error being a lack of doctype statement.

Possibly the error messages were generated by unrelated errors, and the
number of errors could be less than the number of error messages.

I have passed the info on to my web site designer (my son)
but still believe that if w3.org wants to hold itself up as
the final arbitrator of well-designed web sites it should
not make errors itself.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Part of the problem is that the home page on cflfacts.com claims, in
the source, it conforms to XHTML 1.0:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

The validator at w3.org is therefore checking the page against the XHTML
1.0 specification. This is a relatively new standard, and among other
things, it seems to want XML-style closing tags like <i>this<i/>,
instead of the more common HTML style closing tags like <i>this</i>.

There is a drop-box at the top of the analysis page that allows you to
override the DOCTYPE declaration in the source and validate your page
against different standards; if you switch it to HTML 4.01 or HTML 3.2
it reports many fewer errors.

The first thing to do is probably to change the DOCTYPE declaration in
the source to something like HTML 4.01 or HTML 3.2. Then run the
validator again and fix what it reports.

HTML Tidy is a program that does about the same thing as the Web-based
validator above, except it can be run on your local machine while you're
developing the pages - you don't have to have them up on the Web yet.
See the info at http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ and download the
program at http://tidy.sourceforge.net/#binaries .

Thanks. I'll get a copy.
Because they're in the brain. :) Arguing with W3C about HTML is kind
of like calling up CIE and telling them that their chromaticity diagram
is all screwed up.

I'm not arguing about the real HTML errors on the page. To
the extent they exist I will fix them. However, I do
believe that a site that is being held up as the final
arbitrator of good HTML code should not be designed so
poorly that it reports errors that in fact do not exist. It
may be great HTML code but it is lousy programming.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just tried it on my homepage.

I find that it reports errors in poor ways, and some reported errors
were caused by prior errors.

Turns out that three missing </A> tags generated about a dozen error
messages, none of which were reporting of missing </A> tags. Most said
that subsequent <A> tags were not permitted by the doctype.

I fixed three actual errors, and the checker then had the only reported
error being a lack of doctype statement.

Possibly the error messages were generated by unrelated errors, and the
number of errors could be less than the number of error messages.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

Well, I just checked amazon.com and w3.org returned 1207
errors. This makes me feel SO much better :)

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
HTML Tidy is a program that does about the same thing as the Web-based
validator above, except it can be run on your local machine while you're
developing the pages - you don't have to have them up on the Web yet.
See the info at http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ and download the
program at http://tidy.sourceforge.net/#binaries .

I ran tidy on a copy of the cflfacts home page and it took
out all the blank lines and indentation, making the source
code very hard to read. Since white space has no meaning
in HTML this seems to be unnecessary. I'll have to see if
there is a switch to turn this "feature" off.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
Victor Roberts said:
I ran tidy on a copy of the cflfacts home page and it took out all
the blank lines and indentation, making the source code very hard
to read. Since white space has no meaning in HTML this seems to
be unnecessary. I'll have to see if there is a switch to turn
this "feature" off.

Try -i to make it indent the output, i.e.

tidy -i input.html >output.html

You may also be interested in the -wrap option, which makes it wrap
at a different column. The default is 68 columns, which may be
kind of narrow if you are using an editor with a proportional font.
For instance,

tidy -i -wrap 90 input.html >output.html

will make it wrap at 90 columns.

Matt Roberds
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have passed the info on to my web site designer (my son)
but still believe that if w3.org wants to hold itself up as
the final arbitrator of well-designed web sites it should
not make errors itself.

I agree that this validation program needs improvement. If I make a few
mistakes, I think the error messages should be 1 per actual error and
pointing to the actual error, as opposed to what I experienced.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
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