air cooled diesel vs. air cooled Yamaha gas???

[Robert Morein]

Since some people have gotten ~5000 hours out of a Yamaha gas generator, it
bears comparison with air cooled diesel, ie.,
the ETQ brand:
http://www.usdieselengines.com/6_kw diesel_generator_open.htm

ETQ claims 10,000 hours on their engine, which suggests that the lifetime
may be similar to the Yamaha gas models.
Any opinions on air-cooled diesel?

What is a typical oil change interval for an aircooled diesel?

 

[no useful info]

Since some people have gotten ~5000 hours out of a Yamaha gas generator, it
bears comparison with air cooled diesel, ie.,
the ETQ brand:
http://www.usdieselengines.com/6_kw diesel_generator_open.htm

ETQ claims 10,000 hours on their engine, which suggests that the lifetime
may be similar to the Yamaha gas models.
Any opinions on air-cooled diesel?

What is a typical oil change interval for an aircooled diesel?

Should have researched that before you bought your Chinese Diesel
generator.

Be a fricking shame if your model required an oil change every 10 hours.

 

[m Ransley]

5000 hrs on a yamaha , I have not heard that on a 3600 rpm unit. If the
deisel runs at 1800 rpm life will be 4 times longer than 3600 rpm.

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

Since some people have gotten ~5000 hours out of a Yamaha gas generator, it
bears comparison with air cooled diesel, ie.,
the ETQ brand:
http://www.usdieselengines.com/6_kw diesel_generator_open.htm

ETQ claims 10,000 hours on their engine, which suggests that the lifetime
may be similar to the Yamaha gas models.
Any opinions on air-cooled diesel?

What is a typical oil change interval for an aircooled diesel?

Claims are just that, claims. Any 3600 Rpm engine, even if it is a
diesel, will have far short MTBR than an 1800 Rpm engine. Oil change
Scheds are also have a big input on engine life. Engines with pressure
oil systems and filters will run may times longer, than engines that are
Splash oiled and no filter, even if you do oil changes every 50 hours.
A good 1800 rpm diesel with a pressure oil system can last 20K+ hours
between rebuilds. I have a pair of 20Kw Northern Lights that were
rebuilt after 40,000 hours and now have an additional 8,000 hours on
them, and they are just barely broken in since rebuild. The real
question is, what do you want to pay your money for? OIl, or rebuild
parts, and how often do you want to pay for a rebuild.

Bruce in alaska

 

[Robert Morein]

Claims are just that, claims. Any 3600 Rpm engine, even if it is a
diesel, will have far short MTBR than an 1800 Rpm engine. Oil change
Scheds are also have a big input on engine life. Engines with pressure
oil systems and filters will run may times longer, than engines that are
Splash oiled and no filter, even if you do oil changes every 50 hours.
A good 1800 rpm diesel with a pressure oil system can last 20K+ hours
between rebuilds. I have a pair of 20Kw Northern Lights that were
rebuilt after 40,000 hours and now have an additional 8,000 hours on
them, and they are just barely broken in since rebuild. The real
question is, what do you want to pay your money for? OIl, or rebuild
parts, and how often do you want to pay for a rebuild.

Bruce in alaska

Personally, I prefer equipment that is made to last, as opposed to short
lifetime solutions.
But for my use, which is home backup power, there are some pretty stiff
disadvantages to going with an elegant, water cooled, full pressure lube
diesel, which is what I'd really prefer.

Unlike a car that goes in for service, these things are not easily portable.
That means on site maintenance, probably done by me. The more advanced and
durable the system is, the harder it is to diagnose when it does break. eBay
is loaded with sophisticated, homeless diesels with microprocessor controls.
While I'd love to have one, I'm not sure it makes sense to burden myself
with having to learn such a complex machine. If I were already a diesel
mechanic, it would be another story.

By contrast, the control systems in an air-cooled diesel generator are
virtually nonexistent, and therefore easy to understand. The motor can't
compare in elegance, performance, or longevity. However, it is light enough
that I can actually remove it by hand and replace it, or at least get it to
the local machine shop (provided the rod hasn't decided to exit the
crankcase .

A recent study indicated that ring wear is roughly proportional to the total
number of rotations. However, it certainly is true that the stresses on the
crankshaft and rods are much more severe than a better balanced machine.

I wish big diesels weren't so damn heavy .

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

Personally, I prefer equipment that is made to last, as opposed to short
lifetime solutions.
But for my use, which is home backup power, there are some pretty stiff
disadvantages to going with an elegant, water cooled, full pressure lube
diesel, which is what I'd really prefer.

Unlike a car that goes in for service, these things are not easily portable.
That means on site maintenance, probably done by me. The more advanced and
durable the system is, the harder it is to diagnose when it does break. eBay
is loaded with sophisticated, homeless diesels with microprocessor controls.
While I'd love to have one, I'm not sure it makes sense to burden myself
with having to learn such a complex machine. If I were already a diesel
mechanic, it would be another story.

By contrast, the control systems in an air-cooled diesel generator are
virtually nonexistent, and therefore easy to understand. The motor can't
compare in elegance, performance, or longevity. However, it is light enough
that I can actually remove it by hand and replace it, or at least get it to
the local machine shop (provided the rod hasn't decided to exit the
crankcase .

A recent study indicated that ring wear is roughly proportional to the total
number of rotations. However, it certainly is true that the stresses on the
crankshaft and rods are much more severe than a better balanced machine.

I wish big diesels weren't so damn heavy .

You just aren't looking at the right diesel gensets. I have two
3Kw Onan diesel Gensets, one water cooled, and one air cooled.
Both use the same consumables. (Oil, fuel, and air filters, as well
as Base Oil) The repair parts are also the same. (Injectors, injector
Pump, Governer, fuel pump, ect) These are 1800 Rpm units with 4 wire
240/120 Generator windings, and very simple control, and safety shutdown
systems. I bought both off Ebay for less than $500US each. My neighbor
has the 6Kw versions of the same basic gensets. One air cooled, and one
water cooled, and we can share all out spares as they are the same for
both series units. Onan also made a 12Kw version as well, using all the
same spares. One does need to do a bit of research, to understand
what is around.


Bruce in alaska

 

[Robert Morein]

You just aren't looking at the right diesel gensets. I have two
3Kw Onan diesel Gensets, one water cooled, and one air cooled.
Both use the same consumables. (Oil, fuel, and air filters, as well
as Base Oil) The repair parts are also the same. (Injectors, injector
Pump, Governer, fuel pump, ect) These are 1800 Rpm units with 4 wire
240/120 Generator windings, and very simple control, and safety shutdown
systems. I bought both off Ebay for less than $500US each. My neighbor
has the 6Kw versions of the same basic gensets. One air cooled, and one
water cooled, and we can share all out spares as they are the same for
both series units. Onan also made a 12Kw version as well, using all the
same spares. One does need to do a bit of research, to understand
what is around.


Bruce in alaska

Terrific units. However, in my neighborhood, they would make too much noise.
Any diesel would have to be in an acoustic enclosure.
Based upon the limited number of operating hours and the wattage
requirement, a 3600 rpm unit makes more sense for me. If you're using
generators for primary power, the longevity of an 1800 rpm unit is a
requirement. But the weight per watt is approximately double, or even more,
given that your units are built to maximize operating hours.

Here are a couple of typical specs I've seen -- feel free to comment:
1800 rpm 4 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 750 lbs.
3600 rpm 6 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 265 lbs.

Now I don't have a generator house, nor do I want one, considering that we
have terrific power where I live. Total outage time/year is perhaps 4 hours.
I would have to find a way to move your splendid machine outside when I want
to use it, and the neighbors would complain about the noise. The cheap 6kW
unit I ordered has a dry weight of 400 lbs, it's on wheels, and it's in an
acoustic enclosure. Weight of the motor assembly by itself is less than 100
lbs, so I can unbolt it, chuck it, or fix it, in event of catastrophic
failure.

 

[no useful info]

One does need to do a bit of research, to understand
what is around.

Robert is pitifully poor at doing research

 

[no useful info]

Terrific units. However, in my neighborhood, they would make too much noise.
Any diesel would have to be in an acoustic enclosure.
Based upon the limited number of operating hours and the wattage
requirement, a 3600 rpm unit makes more sense for me. If you're using
generators for primary power, the longevity of an 1800 rpm unit is a
requirement. But the weight per watt is approximately double, or even more,
given that your units are built to maximize operating hours.

Here are a couple of typical specs I've seen -- feel free to comment:
1800 rpm 4 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 750 lbs.
3600 rpm 6 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 265 lbs.

Now I don't have a generator house, nor do I want one, considering that we
have terrific power where I live. Total outage time/year is perhaps 4 hours.
I would have to find a way to move your splendid machine outside when I want
to use it, and the neighbors would complain about the noise. The cheap 6kW
unit I ordered has a dry weight of 400 lbs, it's on wheels, and it's in an
acoustic enclosure. Weight of the motor assembly by itself is less than 100
lbs, so I can unbolt it, chuck it, or fix it, in event of catastrophic
failure.

Who are the neighbors going to complain to when you are generating
emergency power and their power is out. If you weren't so selfish you
could get the bigger better unit and share the electricity for 4 hours
per year.

I am impressed though that you are investing so much time and money to
save yourself from 4 hours of outages per year. Might have saved time
and just got a bigger inverter and more batteries.

 

[Steve Spence]

My new Detroit Diesel 1200 rpm unit is rated for 40k hours.

See the VeggieGen at http://www.green-trust.org

 

[Steve Spence]

Full time, water cooled slow diesels in a decent home size can be had very
reasonably (used but good). We sell a dual fuel (diesel/veggie oil)
converted unit for $3995. 12.5 kw, 1200 rpm, 40k hours between rebuilds.

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

Terrific units. However, in my neighborhood, they would make too much noise.
Any diesel would have to be in an acoustic enclosure.
Based upon the limited number of operating hours and the wattage
requirement, a 3600 rpm unit makes more sense for me. If you're using
generators for primary power, the longevity of an 1800 rpm unit is a
requirement. But the weight per watt is approximately double, or even more,
given that your units are built to maximize operating hours.

Here are a couple of typical specs I've seen -- feel free to comment:
1800 rpm 4 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 750 lbs.
3600 rpm 6 kw unit, air cooled, dry weight 265 lbs.

Now I don't have a generator house, nor do I want one, considering that we
have terrific power where I live. Total outage time/year is perhaps 4 hours.
I would have to find a way to move your splendid machine outside when I want
to use it, and the neighbors would complain about the noise. The cheap 6kW
unit I ordered has a dry weight of 400 lbs, it's on wheels, and it's in an
acoustic enclosure. Weight of the motor assembly by itself is less than 100
lbs, so I can unbolt it, chuck it, or fix it, in event of catastrophic
failure.

First place, if the power is out around the whole neighborhood, Nobody
is going to complain about a little bit of noise from an 1800 Rpm genset.
Second, With a good Residential Muffler, my Onans make more mechanical
noise that exhaust noise by almost double. Third, those 3600 Rpm
Screamers are going to make much more noise that any 1800 rpm unit.
Weight of the unit shouldn't even be a concern. Your going to be
running it, not bench pressing it. Wheels are you friend.



Bruce in alaska

 

[no useful info]

Isn't Robert the guy with the Benz 300D parked in the driveway.
If so for same expense as the stand-alone diesel generator....
He can add a secondary alternator on electricclutch(air conditioner clutch)
Use an emergency vehicle alternator(some are hydradualic driven,due to space
limitation under hood)Seen some rated all the way to 12,000watts....and get
his
own self-propelled generator that kicks in at 900rpm's with juice for a
invertor.
Four hours a year and if he drives the thing on a regular basis....no
maintenance
starts required since you already know what it runs like from your trip to
the market
or?????.If it breaks you call the tow truck to haul it to the garage.

You realize of course that this suggestion will result in a flood of
questions from Robert ranging from where to buy such an alternator, how
to mount it (including detailed parts list, availability and where to
purchase) and will it meet code and/or invalidate his home/auto
insurance. Shouldn't forget the NEC requirements.

 

[no useful info]

First place, if the power is out around the whole neighborhood, Nobody
is going to complain about a little bit of noise from an 1800 Rpm genset.
Second, With a good Residential Muffler, my Onans make more mechanical
noise that exhaust noise by almost double. Third, those 3600 Rpm
Screamers are going to make much more noise that any 1800 rpm unit.
Weight of the unit shouldn't even be a concern. Your going to be
running it, not bench pressing it. Wheels are you friend.

Robert has an overwhelming care for humanity and his neighbors (except
for Brian L McCarty who he frequently urges to commit suicide.) He will
soon be asking what model Residential Muffler and how to mount it.

I'm sure robert thinks that anything over 400 lbs that uses wheels
should have a steering wheel and seatbelts.