Connect with us

Zero Point Energy is no myth.

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by The Flavored Coffee Guy, Nov 16, 2006.

Scroll to continue with content
  1. Just been rewatching the whole series of McGyver vids.

    Amazing HOW BAD the physics and chemistry and electronics are.



    --
    Many thanks,

    Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
    Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
    rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

    Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
     
  2. Tell you what, just make one and 'close the loop' ie get it to drive
    itself from the excess energy while tapping off enough to light a bulb.
    Run it for a few weeks, then get back to us.


    --
    Dirk

    http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
    Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM 104.4
    http://www.resonancefm.com
     
  3. jasen

    jasen Guest

    nope. the petals move in opposite directions, it's nothing like a switched
    bank of capacitors. because each time it encounters a contact it's opposite
    a different other petal
     
  4. default

    default Guest

    If he actually achieved that he'd have to be out of his mind to post
    it on Usenet - It would be worth too much.
     
  5. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    That is Hollywood for you...
     

  6. Like the crappy electronics props made with Radio Shack proto boards?


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  7. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    I just saw "Stargate", the original movie again, on TeeVee. Now, the
    TeeVee O'Neill is played by MacGuyver (interestingly, I've never seen
    McG), but in the movie it was Kurt Russell, and he was as serious as a
    heart attack - nothing like MacGuyver's O'Neill at all. And the translator
    guy was, of all people, James Spader. And there was no babe on the team,
    just some native girl. ;-)

    One thing that bothers me about those sort of things, they glibly
    talk about going to all these different galaxies. Why bother, when
    there's billions and billions of stars in our own galaxy! ;-)

    (and galaxies are billions and billions of times farther away, but
    I guess with a stargate, that doesn't matter. ;-) )

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  8. MassiveProng

    MassiveProng Guest

    It also provides the ions via triboelectric effect.
    Hmmmm... Perhaps on a whim...
     
  9. Guest

    Actually, until the momentum of the rotating disks have been exhausted
    by friction and the conversion to usable energy. If you manage to build
    one you'll find that installing a heavier load on its output (like say
    an electric oven) will make it spin down much faster than a light load.
    The mechanics of how kinetic energy is converted is very much different
    than a magnetic generator but the end result is the same.

    Talk is cheap, you can argue and write equations all day yet they may
    or may not represent what happens in the real world. Get or build one
    of these and run the experiment I described above and you'll see.
     
  10. John  Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Does not!

    Even better.

    John
     
  11. MassiveProng

    MassiveProng Guest


    Gasoline can in back of truck resting on plastic truck bed liner with
    no carbon. Can takes on charge FROM THE AIR passing over it.

    The reason it takes on a charge is due to the triboelectric effect.
    The same reason that pulling a piece of tape away from a surface
    introduces charge across the tape surface.

    Lifting a mere sheet of paper from a desktop surface does the same
    thing. That's just how two insulators behave near each other.

    Better ground that can, yourself, and the pump, before grabbing that
    pump handle.
     
  12. Guest

    Electrostatic "generators" are transducers; they use input mechanical
    work to separate electrical charges. If no work is input, no charges
    get separated. Let it run down, and they recombine through leakage.

    No connection with zero-point energy.

    You want "zero-point _field_" energy, which is different.

    Find a copy of "Analysis of zero-point electromagnetic energy and
    Casimir forces
    in conducting rectangular cavities" by G. Gordon Maclay (Physical
    Review A, Volume 61, 052110) and read it. You can download it online
    but it'll cost money; any University should have a library that carries
    Phys. Rev. in dead tree format you can read and copy for much less if
    not for free.

    If you can't follow all the math, just look carefully at figs. 16
    &17.

    The point is that the usual cited embodiment of the Casimir Effect,
    two close-spaced conducting plates, is a special case of the general
    idea of bounding a volume of space so as to exclude EM modes that won't
    fit within, giving the enclosed volume a negative energy density
    compared to an equal but unbounded volume. Another special case is
    cuboidal cavities, which neatly get rid of the edge effects of the
    (assumed) infinite conducting planes of the usual version.

    Specifically, the figures explain that two identical enclosed
    volumes, one pizza-box shaped, the other hatbox-shaped, will have
    _different_ negative energy densities, thus different absolute energy
    values at the contained wavelengths. So, a thought experiment; consider
    them as ordinary RF cavity resonators, poke holes in them, and insert
    conductors so as to link the field lines of one or more of the
    contained modes. then connect the wires through a resistive load;
    obviously, power will flow through the load.

    There are a few minor engineering impediments to realizing this idea
    in hardware; the Casimir Effect works best with close spacing, hence
    the cavities will be rather small. You won't get much power per pair,
    so you need to series/parallel many. Also it works better the better
    the walls conduct, so you want superconductors. Also, the size of the
    cavities means you'll be working at really short wavelengths where
    rectifiers are hard to come by.

    So, if you have access to, or know someone who has access to
    equipment for making semiconductor-gate-scale RF hardware out of
    superconductors, you're in business.

    Let us know how it works out.

    Mark Fergerson
     
  13. Guest

    Electrostatic "generators" are transducers; they use input mechanical
    work to separate electrical charges. If no work is input, no charges
    get separated. Let it run down, and they recombine through leakage.

    No connection with zero-point energy.

    You want "zero-point _field_" energy, which is different.

    Find a copy of "Analysis of zero-point electromagnetic energy and
    Casimir forces
    in conducting rectangular cavities" by G. Gordon Maclay (Physical
    Review A, Volume 61, 052110) and read it. You can download it online
    but it'll cost money; any University should have a library that carries
    Phys. Rev. in dead tree format you can read and copy for much less if
    not for free.

    If you can't follow all the math, just look carefully at figs. 16
    &17.

    The point is that the usual cited embodiment of the Casimir Effect,
    two close-spaced conducting plates, is a special case of the general
    idea of bounding a volume of space so as to exclude EM modes that won't
    fit within, giving the enclosed volume a negative energy density
    compared to an equal but unbounded volume. Another special case is
    cuboidal cavities, which neatly get rid of the edge effects of the
    (assumed) infinite conducting planes of the usual version.

    Specifically, the figures explain that two identical enclosed
    volumes, one pizza-box shaped, the other hatbox-shaped, will have
    _different_ negative energy densities, thus different absolute energy
    values at the contained wavelengths. So, a thought experiment; consider
    them as ordinary RF cavity resonators, poke holes in them, and insert
    conductors so as to link the field lines of one or more of the
    contained modes. then connect the wires through a resistive load;
    obviously, power will flow through the load.

    There are a few minor engineering impediments to realizing this idea
    in hardware; the Casimir Effect works best with close spacing, hence
    the cavities will be rather small. You won't get much power per pair,
    so you need to series/parallel many. Also it works better the better
    the walls conduct, so you want superconductors. Also, the size of the
    cavities means you'll be working at really short wavelengths where
    rectifiers are hard to come by.

    So, if you have access to, or know someone who has access to
    equipment for making semiconductor-gate-scale RF hardware out of
    superconductors, you're in business.

    Let us know how it works out.

    Mark Fergerson
     
  14. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Is that how Wint-o-green Life Savers light up in your mouth? Or is
    that more piezoelectric?

    I couldn't find a total technical description of how a Wimshurst machine
    moves the electrons, but for now I'm guessing triboelectric; John L said
    that they work even better in vacuum; but I did find a description of
    the Van der Graaf, and it said that ionized air was involved, albeit
    they did say triboelectric rather than friction.

    So, would a Van der Graaf work in a vacuum?

    And just what _is_ the theory of operation of a Wimshurst?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  15. Nope.
    That is related to thermolumiscence, which is a whole different ball game.
    And an utterly fascinating one.

    Highly useful for geological and archaeological dating.
    Last paper I did on it was in 1964 or so.

    Brief summary at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/resbn63.pdf


    --
    Many thanks,

    Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
    Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
    rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

    Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
     
  16. MassiveProng

    MassiveProng Guest


    It is referred to as TRIBOluminescense.

    There is no thermal involved with a bite pressure.
     
  17. The two phenoma are closely related.

    --
    Many thanks,

    Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
    Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
    rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

    Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
     
  18. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Hi Don:
    Just ahead of the thermoluminescence bit you cover solitons. It turns
    out that there's a plaque on a bridge over the Union canal a mile or so
    from my house commemorating the first observation of a soliton.
    For anyone in the area who wants to take a look, it is on the west
    side of a bridge a couple of miles to the west of the outskirts of
    Edinburgh, near Hermiston (that's Scotland, in case anyone has
    re-used the place names ;-).

    Regards
    Ian
     
  19. jasen

    jasen Guest

    electrostatic induction and physical transportation of charge.

    Bye.
    Jasen
     
  20. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Right, but I don't get what does the inducing? Just the movement of the
    segments past the brushes? Do they have to touch? I guess it wouldn't
    make much sense if they didn't, but in the Van Der Graaf description
    they invoke ionized air. Does a Van Der Graaf also work in a vacuum?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-