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Zero Point Energy is no myth.

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by The Flavored Coffee Guy, Nov 16, 2006.

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  1. Unless, you really have some real electronics experience, you won't see
    the facts involved with the following devices actually being Zero Point
    Energy Devices. But, the truth, as we search for the unknown, old
    school, really beat us to the punch.

    First, look at the wiring diagram/schematic for a Wimshurst
    Electrostatic Generator:
    http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/wims.gif

    Now, read this article on Zero Point Energy at Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

    Let's focus, on what kind of Zero Point Energy Machine a Wimshurst
    Generator really is and by what proof of known physics it applies to,
    the Casimir Effect:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

    Therefore, the Wimshurst Machine, is the proof of the existance of a
    usuable Zero Point Energy, Generator.

    So, I sat down, and did some more research, not on zero point energy,
    but static electricity, and these types of generators. Now, believe it
    or not, a magnetic generator, that uses coils cannot freewheel, or spin
    based upon centripedal force, and produce any usuable power. But, a
    Wimshurst Generator, will freewheel until all of the intertia of the
    spin has be degraded by the friction of bearings and brushes have
    brought it to a stop. There is no Kick EMF involved absorbing
    mechincal horsepower. This means that directly, the 1 horsepower to
    740 Watts rule does not apply. I picked up a toy gyro I have, and I
    set it to spinning on it's bushings, and I waited 2 minutes and 45
    seconds to see it stop, and I probably didn't even reach 400 RPM. I
    spun this thing several times, and it occcured to me, that the static
    that builds up on a dielectric surface is always equal, and the
    position of magnets and coils in a generator always produce opposition
    to the motion of the rotor. Those forces don't exist, and an
    electrostatic machine/generator will spin down generating electricity
    until the inertia of the rotating disks has been exhausted by friction,
    and there are no fields of force playing upon the device to slow it or
    stop it.

    If you do desire to better understand the principals behind the
    Wimshurst Generator, and the kind of equations that are involved, then
    you will find a deeper understanding reading this article:
    http://www.cvcaroyals.org/~rheckathorn/documents/KelvinWaterDropGeneratoreXPLANATION.doc

    This also leads to the concept of a fluid power generation system.
    But, we need a doughnut shaped piece of pipe filled with water, or oil,
    and a pump to get it to moving, and keep moving in rotation. This
    article sheds light on the fact that solids have as much to with static
    electricity, as liquids, in droplet form or steady flows. Bottom line,
    if you move matter, any mass, it is made of proton, neutrons, and
    electrons. Electrons are the members that are most likely to break
    free as a result of a small amount of force, and mild amount of
    instability. That mild amount of instability, will start a process of
    summing within a closed loop system as a simple product of motion,
    mass, and dielectric strength. Voltage is dictated by dielectric
    strength, amperes, is a function of effeciency, but niether connect to
    a mechanical loss greater than required for motion. Fluids, like
    transmission fluid, and hydraulic fluids move much more effeciently
    through pipes, and with the same diagrams utilized in designing
    sectorless electrostatic machines, you have the same potential of
    generating static electricity with fluids in motion.
    http://www.srbrowne.com/booklet/page01.html

    So, a dense liquid that will flow rapidly with little fluid friction
    and high dielectric constant will generate a very high static
    electrical charge.

    http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html

    http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/triplex.html

    I am not declaring this a solution to our energy needs, or problems,
    because it all starts with having more problems. If it's so much
    easier to generate a very high voltage, that 500 KV is easier than 120
    Volts, we have a problem with control, and conversion. Most of these
    devices require a dry air enviornment to work at their highest
    effeciency. At the point you figure, you could send water down a
    corkscrewed pipe of 6 inches in diameter, there would be a point where
    there would be enough loops to allow for inertia to build up velocity,
    and a single pump should be able to generate all of it's own
    electricity, in watts. But, 500 KV DC, is not 120 VAC. That energy
    needs to be converted to either heat, or light. Only a few devices
    require that kind of energy, and most of the time, it's produced with
    losses. Magnetrons and Klystron tubes both require high voltage to
    produce microwaves. Therefore, it becomes an objective of how to burn
    water.

    Then you can run a turbine, and a mechanical generator at the right
    frequency. Consider the corkscrew, the metal plates, neutralizing
    brushes, are now all metal surfaces in plastic pipes, or on them. The
    dielectric is motion, and will function the same as a sectorless
    Wimshurst Generator. The distance between plate dictates the output
    voltage's limits, just as it limits the spark lengths. The dielectric
    of air is 20 volts to the mil.. Therefore, it is easily concievable to
    construct a power supply for magnetron or klystron tube, that utilizes
    the equvalent of a fan in a ducted pipe. If you had a torus, and
    placed an on and off ramp along side, a propeller could get all of the
    fluid rotating perfectly well in a doughnut, or a corkscrew of plastic
    pipe with several metal fittings placed along the way to replace
    neutralizer brushes. I believe that any rotating disk sectorless
    device can be replaced with a dielectric fluid, plastic pipe and metal
    fittings.

    Just consider how many gallons of oil are being pumped across the
    country in pipelines, and that really could just be doing all of the
    work for you if you never burned it.
     
  2. default

    default Guest

    Aren't you overlooking another source of friction? The plates in a
    Wimshurst machine rotate in air. Air adds drag.

    Do Wimshurst machines work in vacuum?
     
  3. Dr. Doctor

    Dr. Doctor Guest

    "> Therefore, it becomes an objective of how to burn
    how you do that ? seems like it would put itself out.
     
  4. Therefore, the Wimshurst Machine, is the proof of the existance of a
    usuable Zero Point Energy, Generator.

    Wrongo, Bub.

    The Casimir effect, if you'd read up on the details, is about
    100,000,000 times weaker and on a 1,000,000,000 time smaller scale than
    electrostatics. To repeat, the Casimir effect has nothing to do with
    the Wimhurst machine.

    Even if it did, it wouldnt be a source of free energy, it's just an
    attractive force. No free lunch.
     
  5. malibu

    malibu Guest

    Are windmills 'free lunch'?
    Are solar panels 'free lunch'?
    Are the Niagara Falls generators 'free lunch'?

    Are photons the only radiation we'll ever be
    able to harness?

    John
     
  6. Guest


    No, no, and no, but fruits growing on a tree are pretty close to a
    "free lunch".

    ;-)

    Michael
     
  7. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    As they say, "Ignorance is bliss" ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  8. Guest

    No. like charges attract. separating them takes energy.
    the disks moving towards the spikey collectors have more charge
    than when they're moving away from the collectors, (duh!)
    so there that energy is't regained. the gif you linked to doesn't show
    that .
     
  9. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Clearly you haven't read it - at least not as far as:
    "Because zero point energy is the lowest possible energy a system can
    have, this energy cannot be removed from the system."

    Sorry, Charlie.

    Rich
     
  10. I'm not sorry! But then, I actually know some real physics... :cool:

    Charlie
     

  11. I used to work for him, but he wanted everyone to call him Ernie. :(


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  12. No, I didn't overlook the areodynamics of the situation, I am still
    looking for equations to determin these and other factors, and I have
    the same question you do, Would a Wimshurst Generator Work in a Vacuum?
    That is a good question.

    This machine uses razor blades instead of brushes, and there is no
    mechanical contact. All of the power is taken off of the disk by glow
    discharge, or corona discharge.
    http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/karlb.jpg

    Therefore, even the thought of friction concerning brushes can be
    eliminated in the Voss Machine, if that method of using sharp edges is
    put to use to collect or deposit charges, and that reduces friction to
    the bearings.
     
  13. You can't read the schematic, or analyze the geometry with any success
    can you?
     
  14. Wimshurst, is one design, here's another, it is a Bonetti Machine.
    Then there is the sectorless Wimshurst. The metal foil plates of which
    you speak, do not exist.

    http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/karlb.jpg

    Other than that, you have overlook fine detail, the direction of force
    is 90 degrees, and as charge plate approaches the collector, the force
    of attraction is equal to the drag of the previous plate moving away.
    The charged plate is attracted to the opposite pole, when the collector
    aquires that energy, there is an equal amount of attraction developed.
    That energy isn't lost, or gained. It strictly straight to the plate,
    and straight away from the plate, the collectors draw on a plate that
    approches, by as much as one that is moving away. There is no gain or
    loss attributed to anything that is parallel to the axis of rotation.

    A magentic field, if lets say north faced north, would oppose the
    direction of rotation, and there would be loss, if there is enough
    inertial energy to get past the magnet, it will only push as hard to
    move it away, and continue rotation in the same direction. With just
    two permanent magnets, there would be a very significant loss at the
    point where the interia of rotation dropped below the field strength of
    the magnets pushing against each other because, at that point, the
    rotation would stop. The force of attraction of north and south poles
    works the same way, except that magnets will center themselves over the
    other aligned.

    The dielectric of the rotating disk, retains the same charge in volts,
    and that field always pulls equal on the Sectorless machines, and
    parallel to the axis of rotation. It pulls on the opposite charge as
    it approches, and pushes on the like charge as it leaves.
     
  15. Ha, ha ha,

    Rich,

    If Zero Point energy is ever going to be useful, it has to be
    collected. If you look at the Wimshurst Machine in operation, there
    are two neutralizing rods, the energy never leaves the system. At the
    spark gap it balances at zero, on the plates it is balanced at zero.
    The charge is really moving in a stepped loop. Still all a part of the
    system.
     
  16. Ron Capik

    Ron Capik Guest

    Cool (or kewl) ! power up the stargate we're all goin' home!


    Later...

    Ron Capik
    --
     
  17. Guest

    Ancient_Hacker wrote:

    A phrase (and book title) popularized by Milton Friedman, the
    Nobel-prize winning economist, who died today in San Francisco, of
    heart failure. MHRIP.

    Regards,
    James Arthur
     
  18. mike3

    mike3 Guest

    That's just a static generator.
    ZPE is real. What is debatable is whether or not one can get useful
    amounts
    of energy out of it.
    Huh??? How? A Wimshurst Generator takes energy IN, to generate a
    static charge imbalance. It does NOT put energy OUT. Could you
    provide a working model (nothing huge, just a small model that can
    power 1 lightbulb) of your device, anyway? To create a charge
    imbalance,
    you have to pull charges (usually electrons) out of a material _against
    their own electric binding forces_, which takes IN energy, not put
    it out.
     
  19. Of course Zero Point Energy exists. A Zero Point Module powers the
    ancient defense weapon in Antarctica. Just ask Jack O'Neil.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Point_Module

    Dave :)
     
  20. neon

    neon

    1,325
    0
    Oct 21, 2006
    They finaly invented the perpetual moving machine. zero energy is it that means what? NOTHING.
     
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