# Zero Point Energy is no myth.

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by The Flavored Coffee Guy, Nov 16, 2006.

1. ### The Flavored Coffee GuyGuest

Unless, you really have some real electronics experience, you won't see
the facts involved with the following devices actually being Zero Point
Energy Devices. But, the truth, as we search for the unknown, old
school, really beat us to the punch.

First, look at the wiring diagram/schematic for a Wimshurst
Electrostatic Generator:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

Let's focus, on what kind of Zero Point Energy Machine a Wimshurst
Generator really is and by what proof of known physics it applies to,
the Casimir Effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

Therefore, the Wimshurst Machine, is the proof of the existance of a
usuable Zero Point Energy, Generator.

So, I sat down, and did some more research, not on zero point energy,
but static electricity, and these types of generators. Now, believe it
or not, a magnetic generator, that uses coils cannot freewheel, or spin
based upon centripedal force, and produce any usuable power. But, a
Wimshurst Generator, will freewheel until all of the intertia of the
spin has be degraded by the friction of bearings and brushes have
brought it to a stop. There is no Kick EMF involved absorbing
mechincal horsepower. This means that directly, the 1 horsepower to
740 Watts rule does not apply. I picked up a toy gyro I have, and I
set it to spinning on it's bushings, and I waited 2 minutes and 45
seconds to see it stop, and I probably didn't even reach 400 RPM. I
spun this thing several times, and it occcured to me, that the static
that builds up on a dielectric surface is always equal, and the
position of magnets and coils in a generator always produce opposition
to the motion of the rotor. Those forces don't exist, and an
electrostatic machine/generator will spin down generating electricity
until the inertia of the rotating disks has been exhausted by friction,
and there are no fields of force playing upon the device to slow it or
stop it.

If you do desire to better understand the principals behind the
Wimshurst Generator, and the kind of equations that are involved, then
http://www.cvcaroyals.org/~rheckathorn/documents/KelvinWaterDropGeneratoreXPLANATION.doc

This also leads to the concept of a fluid power generation system.
But, we need a doughnut shaped piece of pipe filled with water, or oil,
and a pump to get it to moving, and keep moving in rotation. This
article sheds light on the fact that solids have as much to with static
electricity, as liquids, in droplet form or steady flows. Bottom line,
if you move matter, any mass, it is made of proton, neutrons, and
electrons. Electrons are the members that are most likely to break
free as a result of a small amount of force, and mild amount of
instability. That mild amount of instability, will start a process of
summing within a closed loop system as a simple product of motion,
mass, and dielectric strength. Voltage is dictated by dielectric
strength, amperes, is a function of effeciency, but niether connect to
a mechanical loss greater than required for motion. Fluids, like
transmission fluid, and hydraulic fluids move much more effeciently
through pipes, and with the same diagrams utilized in designing
sectorless electrostatic machines, you have the same potential of
generating static electricity with fluids in motion.
http://www.srbrowne.com/booklet/page01.html

So, a dense liquid that will flow rapidly with little fluid friction
and high dielectric constant will generate a very high static
electrical charge.

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/triplex.html

I am not declaring this a solution to our energy needs, or problems,
because it all starts with having more problems. If it's so much
easier to generate a very high voltage, that 500 KV is easier than 120
Volts, we have a problem with control, and conversion. Most of these
devices require a dry air enviornment to work at their highest
effeciency. At the point you figure, you could send water down a
corkscrewed pipe of 6 inches in diameter, there would be a point where
there would be enough loops to allow for inertia to build up velocity,
and a single pump should be able to generate all of it's own
electricity, in watts. But, 500 KV DC, is not 120 VAC. That energy
needs to be converted to either heat, or light. Only a few devices
require that kind of energy, and most of the time, it's produced with
losses. Magnetrons and Klystron tubes both require high voltage to
produce microwaves. Therefore, it becomes an objective of how to burn
water.

Then you can run a turbine, and a mechanical generator at the right
frequency. Consider the corkscrew, the metal plates, neutralizing
brushes, are now all metal surfaces in plastic pipes, or on them. The
dielectric is motion, and will function the same as a sectorless
Wimshurst Generator. The distance between plate dictates the output
voltage's limits, just as it limits the spark lengths. The dielectric
of air is 20 volts to the mil.. Therefore, it is easily concievable to
construct a power supply for magnetron or klystron tube, that utilizes
the equvalent of a fan in a ducted pipe. If you had a torus, and
placed an on and off ramp along side, a propeller could get all of the
fluid rotating perfectly well in a doughnut, or a corkscrew of plastic
pipe with several metal fittings placed along the way to replace
neutralizer brushes. I believe that any rotating disk sectorless
device can be replaced with a dielectric fluid, plastic pipe and metal
fittings.

Just consider how many gallons of oil are being pumped across the
country in pipelines, and that really could just be doing all of the
work for you if you never burned it.

2. ### defaultGuest

Aren't you overlooking another source of friction? The plates in a

Do Wimshurst machines work in vacuum?

3. ### Dr. DoctorGuest

"> Therefore, it becomes an objective of how to burn
how you do that ? seems like it would put itself out.

4. ### Ancient_HackerGuest

Therefore, the Wimshurst Machine, is the proof of the existance of a
usuable Zero Point Energy, Generator.

Wrongo, Bub.

The Casimir effect, if you'd read up on the details, is about
100,000,000 times weaker and on a 1,000,000,000 time smaller scale than
electrostatics. To repeat, the Casimir effect has nothing to do with
the Wimhurst machine.

Even if it did, it wouldnt be a source of free energy, it's just an
attractive force. No free lunch.

5. ### malibuGuest

Are windmills 'free lunch'?
Are solar panels 'free lunch'?
Are the Niagara Falls generators 'free lunch'?

Are photons the only radiation we'll ever be
able to harness?

John

6. ### Guest

No, no, and no, but fruits growing on a tree are pretty close to a
"free lunch".

;-)

Michael

7. ### Jim ThompsonGuest

As they say, "Ignorance is bliss" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

8. ### Guest

No. like charges attract. separating them takes energy.
the disks moving towards the spikey collectors have more charge
than when they're moving away from the collectors, (duh!)
so there that energy is't regained. the gif you linked to doesn't show
that .

9. ### Rich GriseGuest

Clearly you haven't read it - at least not as far as:
"Because zero point energy is the lowest possible energy a system can
have, this energy cannot be removed from the system."

Sorry, Charlie.

Rich

10. ### Charlie EdmondsonGuest

I'm not sorry! But then, I actually know some real physics...

Charlie

11. ### Michael A. TerrellGuest

I used to work for him, but he wanted everyone to call him Ernie.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

12. ### The Flavored Coffee GuyGuest

No, I didn't overlook the areodynamics of the situation, I am still
looking for equations to determin these and other factors, and I have
the same question you do, Would a Wimshurst Generator Work in a Vacuum?
That is a good question.

This machine uses razor blades instead of brushes, and there is no
mechanical contact. All of the power is taken off of the disk by glow
discharge, or corona discharge.
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/karlb.jpg

Therefore, even the thought of friction concerning brushes can be
eliminated in the Voss Machine, if that method of using sharp edges is
put to use to collect or deposit charges, and that reduces friction to
the bearings.

13. ### The Flavored Coffee GuyGuest

You can't read the schematic, or analyze the geometry with any success
can you?

14. ### The Flavored Coffee GuyGuest

Wimshurst, is one design, here's another, it is a Bonetti Machine.
Then there is the sectorless Wimshurst. The metal foil plates of which
you speak, do not exist.

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/karlb.jpg

Other than that, you have overlook fine detail, the direction of force
is 90 degrees, and as charge plate approaches the collector, the force
of attraction is equal to the drag of the previous plate moving away.
The charged plate is attracted to the opposite pole, when the collector
aquires that energy, there is an equal amount of attraction developed.
That energy isn't lost, or gained. It strictly straight to the plate,
and straight away from the plate, the collectors draw on a plate that
approches, by as much as one that is moving away. There is no gain or
loss attributed to anything that is parallel to the axis of rotation.

A magentic field, if lets say north faced north, would oppose the
direction of rotation, and there would be loss, if there is enough
inertial energy to get past the magnet, it will only push as hard to
move it away, and continue rotation in the same direction. With just
two permanent magnets, there would be a very significant loss at the
point where the interia of rotation dropped below the field strength of
the magnets pushing against each other because, at that point, the
rotation would stop. The force of attraction of north and south poles
works the same way, except that magnets will center themselves over the
other aligned.

The dielectric of the rotating disk, retains the same charge in volts,
and that field always pulls equal on the Sectorless machines, and
parallel to the axis of rotation. It pulls on the opposite charge as
it approches, and pushes on the like charge as it leaves.

15. ### The Flavored Coffee GuyGuest

Ha, ha ha,

Rich,

If Zero Point energy is ever going to be useful, it has to be
collected. If you look at the Wimshurst Machine in operation, there
are two neutralizing rods, the energy never leaves the system. At the
spark gap it balances at zero, on the plates it is balanced at zero.
The charge is really moving in a stepped loop. Still all a part of the
system.

16. ### Ron CapikGuest

Cool (or kewl) ! power up the stargate we're all goin' home!

Later...

Ron Capik
--

17. ### Guest

Ancient_Hacker wrote:

A phrase (and book title) popularized by Milton Friedman, the
Nobel-prize winning economist, who died today in San Francisco, of
heart failure. MHRIP.

Regards,
James Arthur

18. ### mike3Guest

That's just a static generator.
ZPE is real. What is debatable is whether or not one can get useful
amounts
of energy out of it.
Huh??? How? A Wimshurst Generator takes energy IN, to generate a
static charge imbalance. It does NOT put energy OUT. Could you
provide a working model (nothing huge, just a small model that can
power 1 lightbulb) of your device, anyway? To create a charge
imbalance,
you have to pull charges (usually electrons) out of a material _against
their own electric binding forces_, which takes IN energy, not put
it out.

19. ### David L. JonesGuest

Of course Zero Point Energy exists. A Zero Point Module powers the
ancient defense weapon in Antarctica. Just ask Jack O'Neil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Point_Module

Dave

20. ### neon

1,325
0
Oct 21, 2006
They finaly invented the perpetual moving machine. zero energy is it that means what? NOTHING.