Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Zenith D60WLCD

This can't stay on the back burner forever. This is also new technology
and with virtually no support from the manufacturer it is time to get
resourceful.

The reason that I was not there for the first try is no concern right
now. The light engine has been disassembled and reassembled and does
work. A burnt up plastic filter of some kind was removed and the big
splotch is gone from the center of the screen. The filter was red in
color, but was way too pale to be a significant color filter. The new
symptom was described to me incorrectly, and I was surprised because of
the normal competency of these guys, they said it had no red. It
must've been the source. Now that I have seen it I will describe it.

Originally the splotch was blue, and outside the splotch it was short
on blue, or had no blue. You could not see the pixels in the splotch.

Now after they removed the burnt up filter, it is not modulating the
blue. Everything black is blue, the blue screen comes up at turnon
before unblanking. Most of the highlights in the active video are
brownish, but in the menus it seems to be able to produce white on the
selected item. In the blue, which now shows pixels on the screen, in
the relatively white parts of the menu I can see the red, green and
blue pixels.

I have a good eye for color, there were some white parts, even though
it seemed like it couldn't produce white, it did in the menus. How is
this possible ? It looks as if you have an HK short in a weak blue gun,
but without retrace lines of course.

I strongly believe that the burnt up filter was a polarizing filter for
the blue channel. The red tint was only a tweak of the coloimetry.

Now I am almost sure I can come up with polarizing filters, but then
the problem becomes the orientation.

And this, I believe is the crux of the matter. I think what was removed
was a pre-polarizing filter. A refinement. Perhaps the tint was a
tweak, but then, it is possible it is not a polarizing filter. In that
case, the real polarizing filte, which has failed, is buried much
deeper in the light engine. This was a stick on filter, on a piece of
glass I am told. I have to consider the possibilty that this filter was
not the main proble, but a tertiary problem. That the people watched it
screwed up for a while. We acquired the set when it started saying
"Change lamp".

I simply don't think this is the only polarizing filter, if it even is
one.

What I intend to do is to put a polarizing filter there, screw the
tint. If the coloimetry is a little off, there are still many people
who would be happy with it. I believe it is worth persuing.

Something has actually occurred to me though recently. What if, with
the offending filter gone the light engine is fine ? What if the
problem is in the signal processing circuits and there is nothing wrong
with the LCDs at all ? I recite this point ; The menus produced white.
Not much, but some.

If it produced any at all it must be working somehow. An LCD element
requires both a pre and post polarizing filter to function.

The set reproduces red and green, and seems to able to kick up the blue
for highlighted menu items. This leads me to believe that maybe the
fault in the light engine is cured, and .......

You see the quandry.

Following through on my thinking, I cannot remember whther the menu was
able to make the blacks black instead of blue. Right now I think this
is the most important piece of information we need. If the menu
actually reproduces black, anywhere, the light engine is fine.

If that is the case the next thing is to feed it with Y-Cr-Cb, or some
component input. That would isolate it to the NTSC decoder or scan
convertor if it worked right then.

So, sorry for being so longwinded here, but I was trying to be as
complete and accurate as possible. Anybody out there knows anything
about LCD etc., am I on the right track ? You don't throw away
something that cost $3,000. And the whole set was $5,000 on average,
new
, and only a few years ago.

JURB
 
P

Papa_J

Jan 1, 1970
0
Question: I presume you have been in contact with L/G in Huntsville,
Alabama: Correct? They probably will be the ones you will need to get the
appropiate parts and information from to competently repair this item. IMHO
 
No, no need. They will be happy to sell a $3,000 new light engine.

When I said it was time to get resourceful I meant it. That should
explain why I posted. If my assumption the this pale red piece of
plastic is a prepolarizing filter the issue becomes how to orient the
replacement.

So many people are used to going to the manufacturer, and if it was
worth it I would. I would even pay them $40 or so for a fifteen cent
piece of polarized plastic, but it's $3,000. I have no intention of
contacting them, I can source polarizing filters.

To give to an idea, we just bought a $4,000 truck for $350. Needs a
tranny. No it does not. I am not going to GM for a tranny, or for the
gear therein. (5 speed manual, no reverse). I'm going to the
transmission people, not the OEM of the truck.

"We" have been doing things like this all our lives, but the LCD
projection thing is so much more involved I was hoping that someone out
there knows something.

I can probably shine light through the panel and determine the
polarization, maybe. I can assume that being unpowered the pixels are
in the untwisted state. Do I assume this is black, or white ? (blue)

Gotta understand what I do. We the unknowing, led by the unwilling can
do so much with so little, that I have gotten to the point where I make
more than the boss. I do so much without any help from the manufacturer
that I simply do not consider it an option anymore.

When we get into this transmission we will not be buying tool
J113456798 and J877543, I have a lathe and can make the dummy shafts so
that during disassembly the cluster doesn't fall all over the floor.

Even if this Zenith needs a dichroic mirror, I will find a place that
makes them. I already have. And lemme tellya, I might be able to get it
for free. The trick there is not to tell them you are repairing
something that is already built, you gently lead them to believe you
are an OEM building a prototype. They will send free "samples". My Mom
taught me that.

The way the manufacturers treat ISCs I am used to it. I used to work
for an ASC and I couldn't stand it anymore. The support was there, but
that didn't help the build to be any more servicer friendly.

Look at what these manufacturers do, and you think they're your friend
? Ha. They indeed have the upper hand, but I have been the underdog all
my life, and I have prevailed. As I ask for help, I also share
information.

No sir, I have no intention of contacting LG, by the time I sit on hold
for two hours the shop has lost hundreds of dollars. Then I will find
out what I already know, replace the light engine to the tune of
$3,000.

The interests of manufacturers and servicers are diametrically opposed.
There is no anger involved, they operate in their best interests. Well,
buddy, so do I. I will not, however, feel sorry for them when they
can't sell another TV for $5,000 that only lasts two years.

JURB
 
L

lakewood

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, no need. They will be happy to sell a $3,000 new light engine.

When I said it was time to get resourceful I meant it. That should
explain why I posted. If my assumption the this pale red piece of
plastic is a prepolarizing filter the issue becomes how to orient the
replacement.

So many people are used to going to the manufacturer, and if it was
worth it I would. I would even pay them $40 or so for a fifteen cent
piece of polarized plastic, but it's $3,000. I have no intention of
contacting them, I can source polarizing filters.

To give to an idea, we just bought a $4,000 truck for $350. Needs a
tranny. No it does not. I am not going to GM for a tranny, or for the
gear therein. (5 speed manual, no reverse). I'm going to the
transmission people, not the OEM of the truck.

"We" have been doing things like this all our lives, but the LCD
projection thing is so much more involved I was hoping that someone out
there knows something.

I can probably shine light through the panel and determine the
polarization, maybe. I can assume that being unpowered the pixels are
in the untwisted state. Do I assume this is black, or white ? (blue)

Gotta understand what I do. We the unknowing, led by the unwilling can
do so much with so little, that I have gotten to the point where I make
more than the boss. I do so much without any help from the manufacturer
that I simply do not consider it an option anymore.

When we get into this transmission we will not be buying tool
J113456798 and J877543, I have a lathe and can make the dummy shafts so
that during disassembly the cluster doesn't fall all over the floor.

Even if this Zenith needs a dichroic mirror, I will find a place that
makes them. I already have. And lemme tellya, I might be able to get it
for free. The trick there is not to tell them you are repairing
something that is already built, you gently lead them to believe you
are an OEM building a prototype. They will send free "samples". My Mom
taught me that.

The way the manufacturers treat ISCs I am used to it. I used to work
for an ASC and I couldn't stand it anymore. The support was there, but
that didn't help the build to be any more servicer friendly.

Look at what these manufacturers do, and you think they're your friend
? Ha. They indeed have the upper hand, but I have been the underdog all
my life, and I have prevailed. As I ask for help, I also share
information.

No sir, I have no intention of contacting LG, by the time I sit on hold
for two hours the shop has lost hundreds of dollars. Then I will find
out what I already know, replace the light engine to the tune of
$3,000.

The interests of manufacturers and servicers are diametrically opposed.
There is no anger involved, they operate in their best interests. Well,
buddy, so do I. I will not, however, feel sorry for them when they
can't sell another TV for $5,000 that only lasts two years.

JURB

You should try an Email/Fax Campaign, to the Source of Mfg LG in
Korea/or wherever it comes from. A Courteous inquiry to the orient
will often get results. Like how pleased you are with the Quality and
innovations of LG, etc, and how yours has this small minor Red
Filter problem you are trying to remedy. You want to restore the
wonderful picture you used to have. You have been unable to get good
results from LG Huntsville etc. Go on and on, etc. I once did
this with My Dads mazda rotary, and later with my 626 head gasket
problem. I got a $800 refund direct from Mazda for my efforts.
 
A

Art

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jurb: Done even better with vehicles, elect motor driven devices, and even
electronics.
Given many-many-many inoperative computers to research. Now have a lot of
working systems out in the field, many sold, many donated to worthy
situations.
Have been given motor vehicles that folk just do not want to attempt
repairing or paying someone to repair, again, some are junk but most went
down the road under their own power to supply safe reasonable transportation
for others. Some were sold, some donated, etc.
I totally understand your personal concern in doing a cheap repair on the
LG, as Lakewood posted maybe contacting them (LG) directly or trial and
error will get you a viable product.
Good Luck you do know "Life's Good".
 
My concern is as they sell more and more of these things, they will go
to TV shops for repair when they break doown. This is the future, at
least for awhile. Then DLPs might prevail.

The reason I avoid going to the manufacturer, even overseas is that two
days from now they might be gone.

When I get my thinking cap pointed again in the direction of this
problem, I want viable solutions that do not include the manufacturer.
It is the only way. If we're the only shop in the country that can fix
this shit, great, we'll lock the front door and make money.

Commonalities exist in ALL LCD projectors, and after dichroic mirrors
and polarizing filters are sourced, there is potential.

As long as the LCD panels are good, it is smoke (removal thereof) and
mirrors. I'm sure Apex is going to build LCD projos eventually, what
kind of luck do you think I'll have with them ? I have worked on an
Apex tri-CRT based RPTV and let me tell you, in unservicabiliy they
take the cake. They make a Samsung look easy. I actually fixed the set,
but later found some sort of initialization problem. We also had a
Tantus in that would every once in a while come on with an upside down
picture.

This shit is getting harder and harder, we need an edge. If we don't
get that edge, I will be running a business doing home improvement.
Remember "Other People's Money", no matter how large our market share
is of a dying market, it is dead. Problem is now, even liquidating a TV
shop is hard. You have a hard time getting out with any decent money to
start something else.

I can get polarizing filters, the question is, is the light still
polarized coming out of the lens ? If so, the screen might depolarize
it, or not. If you look at an LCD RPTV with polaroid glasses on, does
it disappear at certain angles ? I think if you diffuse light, like the
screen does, it will no longer be polarized. But then I can get in
between the lens and screen to determine the polarization, thing is I
don't know if it is possible. Not being at a focal point might screw it
up.

I have studied up on the operation of LCDs. There are just some things
I do not know.

Yet.

JURB

PS, thanks for the replies, but really, they are not going to sell me
that piece of plastic, the set is a couple years old and I really think
that they simply won't be stocking that part. Why would they ?

JURB
 
Top