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you can't bash Microsoft enough

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by John Larkin, Apr 30, 2007.

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  1. blu

    blu Guest

  2. Right now, Microsoft has nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide. After all
    the hype surrounding Vista, the Emperor has finally been revealed in all
    his naked glory.

    I think he really meant, "The Emperor has finally been revealed in
    all his naked GORY". :(

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
  3. Sounds about right. I don't know why some people thought it was a complete
    rewrite. To let you know, here is my experience with it.

    I installed Vista Enterprise on a Pentium D 3.4 in a Intel 945GZ chipset
    board. 1GB DDR-2 and PCIx nVidia 7900GS. Not the best thing that money can
    buy, but certainly no slouch of a hardware combo. Generally pathetic
    performance to say the least. Do I really need translucent title bars? The
    popup verifications are almost as silly as the Mac/PC commercial indicates.
    XP on another drive blows it away in boot-up speed and probably anything
    else you'd actually need to do. XP also plays games better (not that I do
    much of that, but I will say that Far Cry looks pretty good on it ;-)

    Unlike when XP came out. People ask me if they should upgrade and they
    actually seem relieved when I tell them to at least wait for M$ to get to
    Service Pack 1 (better yet wait for the second one). When I told them that
    about XP several years back, they seemed put off by it. I think the article
    is right, people aren't convinced they really need the latest thing from
    Redmond. Especially with the insane cost of the software and the required
    hardware upgrade.
  4. The only possible reason I can see for upgrading is to load on the 64
    bit version. But I'll wait until every one man show starts shipping drivers.
  5. Andrew Holme

    Andrew Holme Guest

    Interesting review of the leaked Microsoft source code. It concludes:
    "Their older code is flaky, their modern code excellent. Their programmers
    are skilled and enthusiastic. Problems are generally due to a trade-off of
    current quality against vast hardware, software and backward compatibility."
  6. john jardine

    john jardine Guest

    Well, we're all f***** then.
    I'd no intention of changing from DOS to Windows but the software and
    hardware suppliers forced my hand.
    I'd no wish to change to Win98 but all the new hardware insisted on USB. I'd
    absolutely no interest in XP but the new motherboard gave me no choice.
    Not just Dell but all the windows hardware/software court followers will
    have to say NO together.
    It's not going to happen, as long as there's enough braindead corporate and
    individual punters out there waving wads of cash about to avail themselves
    of any new windows release.
    Fortunately and despite the best efforts of microsoft coporate hospitality,
    people are sniffing the wafting odours of a dead rat (a la the Dell
    decision) but the rotting corpse will be a bleached skeleton before anything
    is done.
    We've no realistic alternatives. We've just got to hope and pray that ms can
    keep it's dead rat from stinking too much.

    A traditional industry would have had risk-takers rushing to offer products
    to fill this gaping hole. Can't now happen, as all the "programmers" out
    there have grown idle, fat and bloated in pursuance of the microsoft
    Kind of like we can't launch a new space probe, cos we've no longer any RF
  7. Jim Yanik

    Jim Yanik Guest

    who wants to buy all new SW or a new PC every time MS offers a new OS?

    I'm still running W98 1st edition,until I can scrounge up a newer Windoze
    version. AMD Athlon,900Mhz,512M SDRAM.

    Anyone care to donate W98SE or newer OS??? ;-)
  8. JeffM

    JeffM Guest

    :(Vista--End of the Dream? by Dave Jewell)

    Dell's retrograde motion the other week was quite telling.

    :part of the source code to Windows 2000 was leaked onto the net[...]
    :I took a little peek[...] I found a vast sprawl of spaghetti
    :in assembler, C, C++, all held together with blu-tack.
    :The sources contained many now-famous comments
    :including "We are morons" and
    :"If you change tabs to spaces, you will be killed!
    :Doing so f***s the build process".[...] I hated that
    :loathsome, tangled, interdependent, unstructured source code.
    :[...]Just one word stuck in my mind: unmaintainable.
    As Holme alluded to above, legacy code has strangled M$.

    :sexy party dress aside--it's the same old tart underneath"
    Has anyone used both Beryl and Aero?
    The word is that Linux's (unfinished) eye candy
    --and what lies beneath--is already superior to Windoze's
    (ostensibly completed) try at it.
  9. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    OEM versions are cheap on ebay.


  10. Email me

    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
  11. Mike Monett

    Mike Monett Guest

    Why? Why couldn't you use Win98? What does the motherboard have that
    requires XP? What about ASUS and the other motherboard vendors?

    I have a strong need to stay on Win98, and your comments give me
    cause for alarm. I understand Win98 SE2 runs USB fine. Is that the
    reason you went to XP?


    Mike Monett
  12. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    I can confirm that W98SE runs USB fine for me. My only reason for moving to XP
    was that I have some applications that require it. Otherwise I'd follow the "if
    it's not broken don't fix it" policy.

  13. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Linux is free.

  14. blu

    blu Guest

    I have a sweet copy of 98SE Developers Edition.
    email: blujuju(at) if yer interested.

    blu 3=3
    master of irrelevance
    Lits Slut#5
    Gutter Chix0r #2
    Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
    -Jim Morrison
    "This whole deal has gone nineteen." -Eddie
  15. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    I found 98 to be very flakey. It locked up if not rebooted daily
    (memory leaks?) and then still locked up. And sometimes it just died
    hard, registry trashed or something evil. XP is quite a bit better...
    runs for a week straight! But it was nice to direct access to i/o
    ports and ram below 1M, though, which 98 allowed, being half-DOS

    XP seems to run all my old DOS apps very well, better than 98,
    although it does weird stuff with serial ports. I'm still writing apps
    in the DOS version of PowerBasic, graphics and all.

    XP + Firefox + Thunderbird + Agent + Foxit + Cutepdf + PADS + LT Spice
    + Crimson Editor + Irfanview seems pretty stable... mimimum Microsoft

    We still run our test stands under DOS for realtime predictability and
    direct VME register access.

  16. JeffM

    JeffM Guest

    Invert the logic then analyze.
    **What does the motherboard have that rejects 98?**
    Hardware == *Devices*
    *Devices* require **Device Drivers**

    Many manufacturers ask "Why should I waste time
    writing device drivers for a DOS-based OS from 1998
    for a MoBo I'm building in 2007?"
    There ya go. *Investigate* before purchasing ANY hardware.
    Make sure the hardware vendor you support[1]
    supports[2] *your* OS of choice.
    [1] support == give maney to

    [2] Supports == Writes device drivers for
  17. Paul Burke

    Paul Burke Guest

    It's noticeable that Linux, which used to be pushed as a way of
    improving the performance of older computers, no now longer installs on
    anything more than 3 or 4 years old and with less than 256k memory.
    Adding to its massive problems caused by indiscipline and
    incompatibility between distributions, they slipped in a major change to
    the way device drivers work between versions 2.4 and 2.6. Remember DLL
    hell? It was easy compared with dependency hell, where one library
    requires another before it will install, that requires a third and a
    fourth, until eventually one lower down requires the first again....

    Despite which, once up and running, it is as good as any W....$ version,
    and despite poorer visual design, has been for a long time. "All" that's
    required is a little coordination, and buying an operating system could
    become a thing of the past.

    Paul Burke
  18. I am not familiar with powerbasic, but if you can call into a dll or
    com object, then get something knocked up in c++. There is a common
    misconception that you cant get to the serial and parallel port in XP
    but its all crap. You can, and its not that hard. If powerbasic can
    call into dll's then you don't even need c++.

    More to the point, the article in question is merely some deluded
    moron having a rant once again. There is no substance to his claims.
    Its quite obvious the author has made no attempt to actually find out
    what has changed in vista (and it is substantial). Likewise, if he
    actually looked beyond the eye candy (I guess for marketing) there is
    some significant changes. Check out the new driver model, that will
    make the hardware guys cringe, yet make the public smile. No longer
    will you be able to write unsecure, poorly implemented drivers that
    result in blue screens.

    I am not sure if there is an MS OS road map, but as for the WinFS,
    rest assured it is coming. Look out for Windows codename Vienna. I
    dare say that if MS had released WinFS in Vista you would have seen
    substantial compatibility issues, not good for market.

    AS for Mac OS X. Well Mac had a good rep before OS X. The guy has
    obviously not been using Mac very much. He should have compared to
    Ubuntu [2], at least that is very close to being on par with MS
    (except hardware support).

    One last point. Someone commented on hardware. I am running Vista on a
    3 year old PC with 1g of ram. I can assure you it is faster than XP. I
    did not need to upgrade any hardware [1] and it worked fine. Installed
    no problems and everything worked out of the box. To date I have had
    no issues with software other than some .flv downloader plugin which
    was probably IE7 as opposed to Vista.

    [1]. I did later upgrade video card so I could play with the new vista
    graphics api, however this was not required.

    [2] I am happy to take comments on Ubuntu. I want ot build a new linux
    based machine very soon and if there is something better than Ubuntu
    then I would really like to hear about it.
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