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XP Embedded

  • Thread starter Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
  • Start date
R

Rich Webb

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone here using, or used, it?
Esp booting from flash

Yes, but it has been a couple of years. The doctors say I should be well
really soon now.

Observations: It was not possible to make a really minimum booting
system. There were so many interlocking dependencies that it ended up
with a really large flash image. Otherwise the boot process would die
with an error (IIRC) 7, unable to find boot (or disk?) device

I wanted to build it analytically, starting from a recommended minimal
system and then adding just the necessary additional components to
support the I/O and display. Fail. Ended up with the tool (don't
remember the name offhand - notes are at the office) that looks at a
working "regular" XP image on the same hardware and which then uses that
info to direct what packages to include in the XPe build.

Found some notes on the disk here. Not on building the image but it
might help on the installation once you get working copy:

Prepare the compact flash

1. Boot to MS-DOS with the 6.22 boot floppy in A: and the CF in C:,
with no other hard drives attached.

Compact flash assignment (master/slave) is controlled by jumper block
V4:1-2 (the pair closest to the edge of the board).

2. If required, partition the CF as FAT and set the partition active.
3. If required, format the partition as FAT.
4. Run bootprep /dC. Note that bootprep is taken from the XPe
toolkit’s utility directory and is not a normal component of MS-DOS
6.22. Answer Y to the “do you really want to do this” questions.
5. The CF module is now ready to accept the XPe image. If preparing
multiple modules, shutdown and goto step 1 of this section.

Prepare the XPe image

1. Setup the development machine with the normal boot drive as C and
the XPe image drive as D:.
2. Create the raw XP image on the development machine. In addition to
the components required for the target environment, check the following:
a. On the EWF component, clear the Start EWF Enabled check box.
b. On the System Cloning Tool component, set the cmiResealPhase to “0"
(manual).
c. Ensure that the Background Disk Defrag Disable and Registry Editor
components are added and that the “run” component is enabled for the
Start menu.
3. Copy the contents of the resulting Windows Embedded Images
directory to drive D:.
4. Shutdown the development machine, remove the XPe image drive D:.
5. On the target hardware, setup the XPe image drive as C: and the CF
module as D:. There should be no second hard drive on the drive cable.
Removing the jumper at V4:1-2 sets the CF as D:.
6. Boot the target hardware. Observe that FBA runs to completion. The
system will reboot itself and should finish the process with the final
app running.
7. Terminate the app. Run regedit and add the parameter:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ewf\Parameters\Protected\Volume0
Name: Enabled
Type: REG_DWORD
Value: 0
8. Reseal the XPe image by running fbreseal. A dialog box will be
presented when the reseal is complete. Select the option to shutdown.[1]
9. Remove the compact flash, switch the XPe image drive to the slave
position (D:) and install the normal boot drive as master (C:).
10. Restart. Copy the contents of the XPe image drive (D:) to a
directory on the boot drive (C:) with the exception of the System Volume
Information folder. Shutdown.
11. Remove the XPe image drive.

Enter at step 12 to install the XPe runtime image onto subsequent CF
modules. The PC/104 stack should be configured as per step (1) in the
PC/104 section, with the system hard drive as C: and the compact flash
as D:.

12. Install the CF module as the slave drive on the PC/104 stack.
13. Restart and boot from the “normal” XP boot drive. Copy the contents
of the image directory created in step 10 of this section to the CF
module. Shutdown. If configuring multiple CF
modules, remove the newly-written module and goto step 12 of this
section.

Enter at step 14 if working from a previously prepared CF module. It
should not be necessary to have a hard drive cable installed on the
PC/104 stack if this is the case.

14. If required, remove the boot drive and set the CF as master (install
jumper V4:1-2).
15. Boot from the CF module. The SID should be resolved, the boot
process should complete, and [2] then end with the target app running.
Shutdown. [3]
16. Restart and let the boot process continue until the target app is
running. Exit the app and open a command prompt. Enable EWF by running
ewfmgr c: -enable. Note that the resulting display will show EWF as
“disabled”; that status is expected at this step. Shutdown.
17. Restart and let the boot process complete. Exit the target app when
it has completed its setup. Open a command prompt and verify that EWF is
enabled in RAM (REG) mode by running
ewfmgr c:. Shutdown.
18. Installation is complete. Ensure that the CF module is marked with
the serial number of the PC/104 stack. The CF module and the PC/104
stack must operate as a unit.
19. Remove the power cable, video cable, 50-conductor cable, and the
drive cable.

Notes

[1] When the PC/104 stack is shut down by XP, the power supply is still
running since we don’t have a full ACPI system. Remember to turn off the
power at the front panel before adding/removing any components.

[2] The boot-up time will be somewhat longer than normal due to the SID
process. If it boots at all, then the system probably isn’t hung. Have
patience and let it finish.

[3] If the app starts but reports that it has failed to find the COM
ports then the BIOS preparation step was skipped for this particular
assembly. Goto Prepare the PC/104 stack and fix the BIOS. Check the BIOS
version too.

Additional:

1. The “resealing” process and subsequent SID resolution seems to take
care of the potential problem with I/O card device designators.
Post-reseal cloning is possible.

2. Ensure that the BIOS is setup with a reasonable date/time. Also
setup the drive assignments and, more importantly, the IRQ assignments
as per the following: ...
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone here using, or used, it?
Esp booting from flash
Thanks guys - the details are really good!
The project is business, so OEM should not be a problem (although the
price might be).

Right now I'm downloading a 4 month eval copy, and will play around with
it on an Atom based mobo. I want to do some embedded audio processing
using VST.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsembedded/standard/dd940301.aspx
It looks like you pay about a grand up front then $90 for each
license. This is insanity. For a music player, why wouldn't you just
use linux?

For my particular application, it has a bug under wine. Otherwise, I'd
be using some flavor of linux. Certainly the programming tools are
better under linux, not to mention the libraries are more extensive.

I haven't particularly thought much about what linux is appropriate
for an embedded application.

http://distrowatch.com/
is good for seeing what is available, though the embedded folks might
have a more appropriate website.

The problem is that I want to run VST audio framework, and most of the
stuff I want is XP. I don't really know much about Linux, and nothing
about WinE. Plus I need a very good quality soundcard.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
 
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax said:
Anyone here using, or used, it?

Its a nightmare to put an image together that fits your hardware. In
the end its better to simply install a regular XP version. Storage
space costs almost nothing these days.
 
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
org/- A UK political partyhttp://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe- Occult Tal=
k Show

Well I know nothing about VST, but I do know the aggravation of
getting soundcards working in Linux, basically that new high def Intel
standard. What you have to do is go to the ALSA website and check the
approved vendor list. Here is the list
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
It would make sense to get a card that at least works under Linux just
to cover your bases. The documentation on the cards is a bit odd since
sometimes they spell out the specific card, and other times they spell
out the chipset.

Alsa/Linux has many advantages over windows sound, though you would
have to see which are useful for your application. There are tricks to
reduce the delay in audio processing in linux. You can also
synchronize multiple soundcards. Alsa has a forum full of gurus.
Running multiple soundcards is a snap under Linux. I have had 4 cards
running at a time.

Indeed. Windows can't even tell the mixers apart in some cases!
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
N

Nico Coesel

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax said:
An interesting point.
Is embedded XP any better than a stripped down standard XP when one has
decent h/w resources?

AFAIK there is no difference between embedded than standard XP except
for the possibility to strip embedded down to save space and remove
unnecessary components. Although there is a slight difference: XP
embedded can be booted from a USB stick. With some trickery regular XP
can also be booted from USB:

http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/USB_booting
 
R

Rich Webb

Jan 1, 1970
0
I did that in 1 gig CF. Loaded XP to normal HD, then stripped it down,
removing all the junk, then copied it to CF.
Worked well.

The problem with that is the tendency by XP to want to write (and write
and write) to various locations on its boot disk. That's okay if the
disk is a real disk and it can be acceptable with a purpose-built "solid
state disk," as netbooks use. Ordinary compact flash just isn't made for
that usage profile, though.

XPe has hooks that direct the writing of all of the housekeeping files
to a RAM disk. That does eat some memory space, although not a lot.
Another advantage is that the flash image is always identical on every
boot. And, of course, writes to real RAM are significantly faster than
to flash. In the end, it's a more responsive and more reliable system.

The downside is the nightmare of pasting the bootable XPe image together
in the first place.
 
R

Rich Webb

Jan 1, 1970
0
AFAIK there is no difference between embedded than standard XP except
for the possibility to strip embedded down to save space and remove
unnecessary components.

There are some meaningful differences. The "enhanced write filter" (EWF)
is among them.

See the discussion at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838511(WinEmbedded.5).aspx

If the parens in the link make it un-clickable, search on "XPE EWF" over
at MSDN for that info and additional resources.

NYK ;-)
 
L

Lil Red Riding In The Hood

Jan 1, 1970
0
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsembedded/standard/dd940301.aspx
It looks like you pay about a grand up front then $90 for each
license. This is insanity. For a music player, why wouldn't you just
use linux?

For my particular application, it has a bug under wine. Otherwise, I'd
be using some flavor of linux. Certainly the programming tools are
better under linux, not to mention the libraries are more extensive.

I haven't particularly thought much about what linux is appropriate
for an embedded application.

http://distrowatch.com/
is good for seeing what is available, though the embedded folks might
have a more appropriate website.


Or a simple search of Linux on one of the common Atom machines in the
channel.

Mine boots up under Knoppix without a hitch, so it can't be that hard
to do.
 
L

Lil Red Riding In The Hood

Jan 1, 1970
0
The problem with that is the tendency by XP to want to write (and write
and write) to various locations on its boot disk. That's okay if the
disk is a real disk and it can be acceptable with a purpose-built "solid
state disk," as netbooks use. Ordinary compact flash just isn't made for
that usage profile, though.

XPe has hooks that direct the writing of all of the housekeeping files
to a RAM disk. That does eat some memory space, although not a lot.
Another advantage is that the flash image is always identical on every
boot. And, of course, writes to real RAM are significantly faster than
to flash. In the end, it's a more responsive and more reliable system.

The downside is the nightmare of pasting the bootable XPe image together
in the first place.


Sounds like someone could make a business out of buying the new atom
platforms and getting images up on each, then selling pre-configured
images to interested parties that do not want to spend that particular
labor segment getting from point A to point B. Then, they merely pay for
their license and key to be legit, and use the pre-cast image to get up
and running quicker.
 
F

FatBytestard

Jan 1, 1970
0
It is microsoft,

You are retarded
it is crap,

You are crap
why use crap?


How is it that a retard like you has a job, crap boy?

I BURNED MY COPY OF XP AND HAVE NOT MISSED IT ONE FEMTO SECOND YET,

I'll bet that a total retard like you knows how to say femtosecond, but
your grasp of what a femtosecond really is, lacks a certain completeness.

You already have proven that you are an utter retard, so how could you
possibly know about short time periods? My bet is that you cannot.
BUT SAVED DAYS OF FRUSTRATION.

Sorry, chump, but you have already made your bed.
Brought to you by 'FREE CAPS".

More like "Total Retard".
Save a bit, use CAPS.

Save us all, stay the **** out of technical news groups.
 
F

FatBytestard

Jan 1, 1970
0
That sort of proves everyone in the Universe is unique:)


No, it proves that you are a retard. An anal, pathetic retard at that.
 
F

FatBytestard

Jan 1, 1970
0
How many ways can Microsoft shoot themselves in the nuts? The act like
only system integrators will uses these small PCs.


You can buy them at the store for less than $200 that come with XP
already in place, ya dumb ditzy twit.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lately we've been buying cute little netbooks, with Windows installed,
for about $260 each. They are handy for running USB type things like
device programmers and background debuggers, and don't take a lot of
bench space.

John


You must not spend three minutes doing any research then. Most of
those can be had for less than $200 each. Try Fry's or even Amazon, for
Christ's sake.

I have an Acer that mounts onto the back of the flat panel it uses via
the VESA mount standard, and I run upright arcade video games on it that
replaces 7800 upright video arcade cabinets with ONE. I can even set it
up so that it doesn't run unless the appropriate USB drive is in place.

I knew you had issues when you called them "Cute little notebooks".

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AspireRe...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1267297110&sr=1-1
 
F

FatBytestard

Jan 1, 1970
0
You must be an other microsoft zomby.
Take your own advice.
Goodbye.


No, I run and understand SEVERAL operating systems, and I understand
what comprises them. You, on the other hand, actually do fall into a
"zombie" class (zomby is retarded as are you). You are one of those
abject retards who, by your own choice, limits your understanding of
computer science realm at every turn. You are like a brand loyalist with
no brand, and no common sense reason to be that way.

You are a miserable addition to the computer science community as is
any other fucktard Linux only MS hating jerk like you is.

Again, you retarded little putz, I run SEVERAL OSes on several
different hardware platforms and I put little retarded cunts like your
wussy pussy boy ass to shame. That fact, you cannot clear with your piss
poor use of words you cannot even spell, much less understand, is the
fact that it is YOU that is the fucking zombie. In fact, you are the
goddamned chieftain of the fucktard computer science zombie world, you
retarded little bastard motherfucker.
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
No, I run and understand SEVERAL operating systems, and I understand
what comprises them. You, on the other hand, actually do fall into a
"zombie" class (zomby is retarded as are you). You are one of those
abject retards who, by your own choice, limits your understanding of
computer science realm at every turn. You are like a brand loyalist with
no brand, and no common sense reason to be that way.

You are a miserable addition to the computer science community as is
any other fucktard Linux only MS hating jerk like you is.

Again, you retarded little putz, I run SEVERAL OSes on several
different hardware platforms and I put little retarded cunts like your
wussy pussy boy ass to shame. That fact, you cannot clear with your piss
poor use of words you cannot even spell, much less understand, is the
fact that it is YOU that is the fucking zombie. In fact, you are the
goddamned chieftain of the fucktard computer science zombie world, you
retarded little bastard motherfucker.

Truly, a classic!

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lately we've been buying cute little netbooks, with Windows installed,
for about $260 each. They are handy for running USB type things like
device programmers and background debuggers, and don't take a lot of
bench space.

John

I hear some people make their living by buying complete new products,
taking them apart and selling the components separately.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
 
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