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Wormhole theory

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by ~~SciGirl~~, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. ~~SciGirl~~

    ~~SciGirl~~ Guest

    I have this idea about the wormhole theory - say you were touching your
    two fingers together, could there then be a wormhole between them? Or
    even down to the level of the protons and neutrons in the nucleus -
    could there be tiny wormholes between them, too? And between atoms that
    make up everything?

    And, if so, could this be how we all travel through time, and why time
    slows when an object viewed from another frame of reference approaches
    the speed of light? And then could it tie into entropy somehow?
     
  2. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest


    You can't actually touch your two fingers together. The electrons in one
    finger repell those of the other finger just before the atoms actually
    touch. We get the impression that they are touching because we sense
    things at much too large of a scale.
    When you get down to the size of a proton, the physics of the everyday
    world no longer applies. The common view of a worm hole is something that
    only applies to large sized object.

    [...]
    To be more accurate, we are dragged kicking a screaming through time.
    The universe has 4 dimensions. We can move about in three of them. The
    fourth, we have no control over our motion in. Our lack of the control is
    the only special status that the forth dimension really has. If you
    dropped through an event horizon of a black hole, you would find that you
    could move about in what we call "time" and two of the "space" dimensions
    but not the third. Along that third dimension, you would be dragged
    kicking and screaming to the singularity where you would be crushed out of
    existance.

    Don't be depressed. You can be crushed to death on any date in history
    you choose.

    Entropy and the "arrow of time" do seem to be linked. The future is when
    entropy will be higher and it is the part of time that we can't remember.
     
  3.  
  4. I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
    In order to experience the effect, the 'traveller' has to *accelerate*,
    in the general sense of 'change speed'. Go away from Earth at high
    speed, slow down, stop, turn round, accelerate up to high speed again,
    then slow down and stop at Earth.
     
  5. xray

    xray Guest

    Then there is the whole missing socks in the dryer issue. I don't know
    if there has ever been an adequate study. Seems to me a few of my socks
    have been sucked by a warm rotating hole into some other dimension.
     
  6. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    Correct to the last bit. The effect can be seen as you zip past.
     
  7. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest


    Modern theory has it that the socks actually go missing in the washer not
    the dryer. People don't check for missing socks as they transfer from the
    washer to dryer so the mistake is understandable.

    60 years ago, people thought that the rings around Saturn were all the
    lost luggage.
     
  8. keith

    keith Guest

    Ah, the socks continuum. Then I buy socks I buy 15 identical (black)
    pairs. That way the socks continnum and this universe eventually come to
    equilibrium and I always have a pair of socks to wear. Same deal with
    pens and pencils.
     
  9. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    From some Broadway show whose name escapes me at the moment, "Someone
    has stolen my socks" ;-)

    Socks do sometimes get under the washing machine agitator or get
    pumped out in the waste water. I was amazed to discover that Maytag
    pumps have "sock traps" to prevent bunging up the impeller.

    Every once in awhile I'm thrilled to see some engineering thought
    actually go into a consumer product.

    Then there's the Cuisinart "Automatic Grind & Brew Thermal" coffee
    pot. It grinds the coffee beans, then blows the grounds into the brew
    basket, perks the water, and makes a good cup of coffee.

    Unfortunately the dust from the grounds goes everywhere in the
    mechanism. Then the steam turns the dust into a wondrous cake :-(

    My nomination for worst engineering of the year.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  10. However, this does imply something that isn't really the case. That is,
    time contraction effects are not due to accelerations.
    Its a bit more subtle John, and depends on how one defines "accelerate".
    One can engage the traveller in "free fall" orbits, such that under GR
    definitions there is no "acceleration", yet the time contraction will
    still occur.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  11. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I always buy the same brand and, of course, black ;-)
    I buy uni-ball GelSticks in bulk.

    Pencils are _always_ Pentel 0.5.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  12. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    I don't like the "postulate of equivalence" very much - according to it,
    we've been doing the equivalent of being accellerated at 32ft/sec/sec for
    eons - we must all be ascending at many times the speed of light by now!

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  13. I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
    I was simply making the point that the people who go away at high speed
    and come back relatively younger than those that stayed at home have had
    a different physical or dynamical experience from those that stayed. If
    that were not the case, and only relative speed were significant, which
    would be younger, the people in the 'stationary space ship' or the
    people on Earth that 'receded at high speed' from it?
     
  14. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    I sometimes wonder why good ideas don't spread around very much:

    My home coffee maker has the "steal a cup" feature where the coffee stops
    flowing if you pull the pot out. The much more expensive machine at work
    has no such feature.

    The lid to the tea pot I bought a few months ago doesn't have a vent hole
    in it. As a result if you drop the lid onto a full pot, hot water shoots
    out the spout.


    [....]
    We should watch to see if the idea gets copied. At least I hope bad ideas
    don't get distributed.
     
  15. Genome

    Genome Guest

    Yes, that's the bit that always fucked me over from the frames of
    reference type shit that people give me.

    Why didn't the traveller buy a bottle of Frosty Jacks from Spar on the
    way out? And why didn't they have a bottle of Frosty Jacks for the
    travellers return, also bought from Spar.

    And there might have been a couple of chicken curries with egg fried
    rice involved but the local sells shit.

    Not so clever now, Ay?
     
  16. Agree. As I understand it, special relativity is concerned with
    non-accelerating reference frames. The time dilation effect occurs
    without any relative acceleration at all. It's a consequence of the way
    we look at things (our reference frame). If we were able to see the
    clock in a passing spaceship, it would be going slower than our clocks.
    Oddly, if they could also look at our clocks, *our* clocks would be
    going slow compared to their clocks.

    This seems like a paradox until you see that the rocket frame's t is
    being projected onto your own particular time-space trajectory.

    Say we have two vectors in the plane, a and b, which are at an angle
    theta from each other. If we measure a distance x on both of these
    vectors, to us, with our godlike 2d viewpoint, they are of course the
    same length. However, think like a flatlander. To a flatlander living on
    a, the length along 'a' is just x; however, the length of that same x on
    'b' is the projection along 'a', so its length will be x*cos(theta); it
    is shorter. (Since he only has one axis, he must measure everything
    relative to that axis.) How much difference there is depends on how big
    theta is. To a flatlander living on the other vector, 'b', however, the
    situation is identical; he measures the length x on the local vector as
    x, but measures x along 'a' as x*cos(theta); again, it's shorter.

    Asking how the other guys' clocks can run slow for both the earthling
    and the spaceship guy simply because of a large relative velocity is the
    same as one flatlander asking how the other flatlander's x can be
    shorter simply because of a rotation.

    Velocity in spacetime is like flatlander rotation (although the
    projection formulas are different, and quite a bit stranger).

    This particular analogy is described in chapter 17 of the Feynman
    lectures on physics, Volume I. In it, he describes the lorentz
    transformation as a special kind of rotation in spacetime.

    --
    Regards,
    Robert Monsen

    "Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
    - Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
    on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.
     
  17. I read in sci.electronics.design that Robert Monsen
    But with you argument, you have talked yourself into the 'second twin
    paradox'. If the 'stay-home' and the 'traveller' have symmetrical
    experiences, when they come together, each is younger/older than the
    other. For a REAL difference between them, which we know occurs, their
    experiences cannot be symmetrical. And the obvious difference is that
    the traveller *changed* speed (twice) in his own frame of reference,
    whereas the stay-home didn't.
     

  18. But he doesn't have to change his *speed*. He can go in a circular orbit
    with the same speed. Sure, his vector velocity will change because of a
    change in direction, and this is where the definition of "acceleration"
    matters. In a Newtonian sense there is "acceleration" due to change of
    direction, in GR something in free fall is not "accelerating". The
    reason is that in GR, things in free fall are not under any forces,
    hence cannot be "accelerating" in the Newtonian sense. Gravitational
    "forces" are abolished and replaced with curvature of space.


    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  19. Only due to your misunderstanding of SR/GR.
    Nope. You understanding of acceleration is faulty. Go and look at the
    sci.physics.relativity FAQ. Even objects in circular orbit "accelerate"
    for ever.


    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  20. Its the path in space-time, due to velocity that matters. My point is
    that the value of the acceleration at any point is not important, only
    the values of the velocity matter. One integrates the velocity profile,
    so its the velocity that "causes" the time difference, not the
    acceleration.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
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