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wood heat transferred through house

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Mike Annetts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello
I have a wood stove which overheats the living room. I wish to move some of
this heat somehow to another part of the house which is built on a slab. It
is about 50 or 60 feet away from the stove to the newer part. I was
wondering about making some sort of heat exchanger and piping hot water to a
rad in the new part of to go with some sort of flexible ductwork in the
attic of the house. I live in Manitoba so it gets fairly cold. Any ideas
or reccomendations would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike
 
B

Bernie Dwyer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mike said:
Hello
I have a wood stove which overheats the living room. I wish to move some of
this heat somehow to another part of the house which is built on a slab. It
is about 50 or 60 feet away from the stove to the newer part. I was
wondering about making some sort of heat exchanger and piping hot water to a
rad in the new part of to go with some sort of flexible ductwork in the
attic of the house. I live in Manitoba so it gets fairly cold. Any ideas
or reccomendations would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike

Funny you should ask! I've just spent some considerable time on the
phone talking to suppliers, etc about doing the same sort of thing. I
have a boiler in my wood cookstove (Rayburn Royal) that pipes to a coil
in the water heater, which lives 2 feet away on the other side of a
brick wall. During winter, the stove is on 24x7, and the hot water
system boils on days when we don't use much hot water. The house has a
steeply pitched roof, and all the heat from the stove goes up there -
not very useful to us.

The hot-water plumbing from the stove can be intercepted with a small
circulation pump which will send the hot water to a radiator first, then
back to the hot water system inlet, and a control thermostat shuts off
the pump when the "main" hot water system drops below a selected
temperature. This would recover some of the heat that would otherwise be
wasted boiling the hot water system, and use it heating the bathroom -
the coldest part of our house :-(

Unfortunately, the cost of AUD$1000 installed puts it 'way down the
wish-list.

The suppliers recommended that I install a reversable ceiling fan at the
highest part of the pitched ceiling to circulate the warm air back
downwards. Total cost AUD$250.00 installed.

It won't stop the HW system boiling, but it should keep us warmer.
--


Bernie Dwyer
Dump the z to reply to me
*****************************
 
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Roland

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not sure if you have an existing furnace in your house (you didn't
mention) but what I did was put a cold air return in the ceiling of the
room with the wood stove. Then block the other cold air returns in the
house. Put a fan switch on the furnace and just run the fan. The warm
air rises to the ceiling, into the cold air return and then the furnace
fan distributes it to the rest of the house. Much cheaper.

Good luck.


Roland
 
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JNJ

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not sure if you have an existing furnace in your house (you didn't
mention) but what I did was put a cold air return in the ceiling of the
room with the wood stove. Then block the other cold air returns in the
house. Put a fan switch on the furnace and just run the fan. The warm
air rises to the ceiling, into the cold air return and then the furnace
fan distributes it to the rest of the house. Much cheaper.

I like that idea -- it would work regardless of whether one were using a
stove to heat or not. One thing though, how does the hot air get to the
furnace? Wouldn't the furnace just pull from right outside the unit's
placement or does it have enough juice to get the heat up and back down?
(I'm assuming your furnace is in the basement for example, or at the least
lower than the air return's position.)
 
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Roland

Jan 1, 1970
0
I like that idea -- it would work regardless of whether one were using
a stove to heat or not. One thing though, how does the hot air get to
the furnace? Wouldn't the furnace just pull from right outside the
unit's placement or does it have enough juice to get the heat up and
back down? (I'm assuming your furnace is in the basement for example,
or at the least lower than the air return's position.)


That's correct, my situation is a wood pellet stove in my rec room in the
basement. I have a propane furnance with all the heat ducts, also located
in the basement but near the center of the house. My furnace only gets air
from the cold air return that runs down the center line of the house and
has vents to pull air from the floor of the upstairs and ceiling of the
downstairs rooms. I made the intake of the cold air return in the rec room
larger then the rest of the intakes and then partially closed off the
airflow from the other rooms. This still allows some cold air from
upstairs to mix with the warmer air from the rec room before being blown
out to the rest of the house.

Normally here in in mid-winter, my downstairs temp is about 76F with the
stove going and, with the blower on, the upstairs is about 72F. This
method was worked well for me for the past 3 years. My house is approx
2400sqft split level and I haven't run the propane for 3 years. The stove
easily heats the entire house.

Not sure how you would do this with a house on a slab. Do you have a
furnace and what type is it.


Roland
 
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Roland

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] (Gordon Reeder) wrote in
[email protected] (Mike Annetts) wrote in


I had a simular situation about 10 years ago.
Ilived in a 3 bedroom ranch with a stove in the living room.
The bedrooms, which were down a long central hallway, would
not get warm. A quick fix was to buy a small fan and place it
on the floor at the end of the hall at the bed room doors.
By using the fan to blow the cold air down the hall I could
force the natural convection and get hot air to return allong
the ceiling. It didn't get the bedrooms real hot, but at least
they wern't cold.

Later I ran a duct and a small circulating fan in the atic.
The duct went to two bedrooms and the pickup end was near the
stove in the celing of the living room. Once I got the parts,
it was a simple 1 afternoon job to install everything.



Interesting. You didn't find that running the duct through a cold
attic (mine is normally well below 32F) caused the moving air to cool
down to much, or did you insulate the duct?

Roland
 
G

Gordon Reeder

Jan 1, 1970
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[email protected] (Roland) wrote in
[email protected] (Gordon Reeder) wrote in




Interesting. You didn't find that running the duct through a cold
attic (mine is normally well below 32F) caused the moving air to cool
down to much, or did you insulate the duct?

Roland
Used insulated duct. To make the job easier I used the flexible
duct. Kind of like a big round insulated dryer vent hose.
 
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Mike Annetts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello
thanks for all the replies. I could run a duct in the attic over to the far
end of the house but I am worried that if a fire ever developed in the
living room the smoke would be transferred to the bedrooms by the fan. that
is one reason I was considering the heat exchanger with the water. I never
even thought of converting it to electricity. I will have to look into that.
Even if it is not 100 percent efficient any extra would help. Is there
anybody out there that has done this and if so how did it work out.

Mike
 
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Ashley Clarke

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello again!

Well I guess that a Wood burning stove should kick out about 20KW, half of
which keeps
the Cast Iron itself hot and the rest goes up the chimney (am I correct)?
I don`t know how your arrangement is and I was just using a little
imaginative thought for
energy transference into the next millenium - it may or may not be too
ambitious for
experimentation (on a small scale first) using a Candle in a Can, etc`...
The actual scientific process is known as the Seebeck effect, rather than
the Peltier effect.
You already have a mass of Cast Iron there (as one differential metal) and
just need another
mass (in about the same proportion) of another metal to join it, maybe
Copper?
If the converting process was only a tenth of the energy expelled by the
Stove then a 1KW
electric output should be expected.

I hasten to add that I`m not an expert...

--
 
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nick hull

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mike Annetts said:
Hello
thanks for all the replies. I could run a duct in the attic over to the far
end of the house but I am worried that if a fire ever developed in the
living room the smoke would be transferred to the bedrooms by the fan.........

I would want smoke in the bedroom ASAP, the sooner to find the fire and
put it out.
 
Someone who looks an awful lot like nick hull said:
I would want smoke in the bedroom ASAP, the sooner to find the fire and
put it out.

Nick, how is the smoke going to travel faster than the sound from
the smoke alarms? Smoke won't wake you up anywhere near as soon (if
at all).

Dave Hinz
 
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Steve Thomas

Jan 1, 1970
0
The devices you refer to are not very efficient and are very expensive on
a per watt basis. One company, I think it may have been GE, attempted to
make a device capable of running a household natural gas furnace. This would
have conveyed the security of heat independant of winter power failures and
could have commanded a premium price in that market. They were unable to
produce a device that would do the job at a price that could be sustained in
the marketplace. The devices sold in 12 volt coolers can be used for
experiments although I don't know what their temperature limits are, A
Google search should yeild commercial modules made for the purpose. I wrote
to one company in California that had a "contact us for pricing" message on
their website. The prices were a bit steep for any application that I was
interested in. Some alternate energy stores sell an electric fan which is
powered by such a device. You just sit it on top of your wood stove.
 
S

Steve Young

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dean Dardwin said:
It would seem a much simpler solution would be to...
1) Dampen the stove in the living room

Air starve it?
2) Install another wood stove in the new part of the house

Yes, possibly simpler, but not really practical in the long run.
Doing so gets you these advantages...
1) Cheap, easy, simple installation and maintenance
2) The stoves back-up one another.
3) Provides zoned heat
Many people here in the Northwoods do this. Works better with some floor
plans than others but is usually very effective.

I have no interest in dragging fire wood down a hallway and tending a 2nd
barely burning wood fire, or cleaning up its mess. Nor would this address the
days when a solar heat collector is sufficient and burning wood is
unnecessary. I think I'd just use an electric heater. At least it would be
there on a cold morning when the fires were out. (it's a far bathroom that I
want toasty warm).

Steve Young
 
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Steve Young

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dean Dardwin said:
You may not but you would be in the minority.

I'm already in a minority, as a person who will even bother to heat with 'dead
fall'.
He already has wood heat,

I know, he just doesn't have it everywhere he wants it :(
lives in an area where wood is nearly free, and electricity is
expensive. Solar heat in Manitoba? I don't think so. It's a big province
and I don't know how far north he is but from personal experience I can
tell you that he has at least 6-7 months of little sun (short solar
days), lots of snow, and bitter cold.

I haven't checked the details of that myself. Solar may not be worthwhile
there, but with heat storage, here in Ohio, in the warmer months, it can
completely supply the family's hot water need, without having to burn a fire.
By the time a fire is appreciated, it's gotten perdy darn nippy outside.

Steve Young
 
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Mike Annetts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello again

Back to my original post-I thank everybody for the replies. I am tending to
go with the water circulating heat. now does anyone know how to make a heat
exchanger for the stove. Can I use flexible copper tubing inside the
stovepipe or will it get to hot. also is an expansion tank required. I
assume I will have to have a pop valve somewhere in the system. thanks

Mike
 
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Steve Young

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dean Dardwin said:
No, you cannot use copper.

That's incorrect, most heat exchangers, for this type service, are constructed
of cast iron. The only disadvantage with copper is that you could not build
barn burners without maintaining circulation, as it may be possible to reach
temperatures that would cause copper to permanently soften.
All heat exchangers made for that application
are made from stainless steel, and for good reason.

All?
"and for good reason" ?
Cite please

Steve Young
 
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Steve Young

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dean Dardwin said:
Solar domestic hot water domestic and space heating are two different
systems, completely different. If you lived here you would know what
you're talking about.
Outdoor wood furnaces have a constant supply of heat (24/7) and can be
combined.
The environment does not suffer due to wood heat. Besides, if you really
knew anything about it, you would know that people do what is LOCALLY
feasible and cost-effective. Attempting to heat a building with solar in
-40F winters with short solar days would be as far from cost-effective
as you could get.

That's not what I said. I'd guess your location is typical of the world?
Why don't you respond to the points one by one instead of huffing and puffing
your attitude? Belching smoke is not a good thing
 
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Steve Young

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dean Dardwin said:
Wrong!

They are all stainless steel. You suggested copper which is laughable.
No one with any knowledge of the subject would do so. Not unless they
were trying to murder themselves and their families.

Good-bye!

You don't know of the add on loops that have been used with wood stoves to
heat DHW?

Show me a few of those stainless steel exchangers. I know of only one
currently on the market for wood stoves.
 
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Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ok, you really stepped in it this time. If a copper exchanger leaks, and the
water douses the fire, how is my family murdered. You really should stick to
topics you have an understanding of. There must be one or two .....

That said, I've never used copper in a firebox, but have used a copper
exchanger in a sand box enveloping a firebox. (HAHSA)
 
S

Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Which is why you combine a solar hot water heater with a wood boiler, so in
summer the solar provides the DHW, and in winter the wood provides the
baseboard water or infloor radiant hot water as well as the DHW.
 
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