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Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by John O, Dec 28, 2004.

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  1. John O

    John O Guest

    I've been doing some digging for info on wireless systems, and found this:
    http://www.intsi.org/security_mission.htm. About halfway down the page is an
    article titled: The State of Conventional Short Range Wireless

    As much as I believe what this, it almost seems like he's being pushed by a
    wireless supplier...I'm getting just a twitch on my "BS Meter" rather than
    the full-blown red flag I'd get from an actual supplier. ;-) I'm curious
    what you guys think of this article, and its facts about the general
    improvements in newer wireless devices.

    And an aside...is there any other PLC technology currently being sold
    besides X-10?

    Thanks!

    -John O
     
  2. I have gone back and forth with Al on this issue
    Personally I like ademco and inovonics wireless and altough i use a wifi
    network i keep it locked down due to security reasons I would not intstall a
    wireless security systmbased on current wii standard
     
  3. I've been doing some digging for info on wireless
    We know the author. He's been around the business even longer than I have
    though much of his time has been spent writing for trade publications. I've
    had a number of discussions with him. Al's a good guy. He tends to swallow
    the industry line on things like wireless but IMO he's an honest journalist.
    Your meter is functioning OK. Wireless is definitely better today than it
    was even a few years ago. It is not quite as reliable hard-wired and it
    never will be. The difference, however, is getting smaller all the time.
    Al makes some valid points. Current wireless alarms are more reliable but
    they're more costly to buy and there's more to service. More significantly,
    wired sensors can be used on almost any alarm. If something fails a few
    years down the line it can usually be replaced or upgraded. Most wireless
    sensors can only be used on one line. When the manufacturer decides to
    cancel support for a given line every wireless system in the field becomes
    completely obsolete. DSC installing firms learned this the hard way just
    recently. With tens of thousands of 900 mHz systems in the field, DSC
    suddenly switched to 433 mHz. Shortly thereafter DSC announced they would
    not supply any additional 900 mHz transmitters or receivers. A client who
    needs to add or replace a single wireless sensor on a 4-year old alarm is
    faced with replacing all of his transmitters. That can cost several
    thousand dollars.
    Yes, but none that is supportd by most alarm systems on the market today.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
  4. John O

    John O Guest

    as it's getting
    Thanks, that confirms what I was assuming. X-10 seems to be a Really Good
    Idea, but has never been implemented very well. Maybe Lutron threw some
    resources at it, I'l check into that.

    Thanks again.

    -John O
     
  5. Guest

    John O.

    Thanks for reading my story on ISIO. No, no one has me by the arm on
    this one. I spent 15 years pulling wire before I went full time in
    trade writing. I lived with wire, insulation, and staples coming out
    of my ears. And, all through the years that I've been writing, many a
    manufacturer have sent me equipment to install for various projects I
    use to do with another magazine I once worked for (Equipment Overview),
    so my hands have been on the wire the second half of my thirty years in
    this industry.

    To answer your concern, the shift to 802.11, if it should ever happen,
    will not happen overnight. We might see some systems in 5 to 10 years,
    maybe, but this is where I believe it will go in perhaps 25 years.
    Again, we may see some of this in 5 to 10 years, and I could be wrong.
    Right now, there are some serious issues to consider with WiFi that
    must be dealt with either within the pipe or on the client side before
    it will be suitable for security.
    Thanks,

    Al Colombo
    www.securitymission.com
     
  6. John O

    John O Guest

    Al,

    I thought your article was well done, and it sure doesn't read like you work
    for a supplier. (That's a compliment :))

    Thanks for the note on WiFi. It doesn't seem like the answer for security,
    which IMO needs its own standard protocol and, at some point, frequencies.
    No need for my WAP to jus' go nuts and waste the security comms, too.

    -John O
     
  7. G. Morgan

    G. Morgan Guest

    Subject: Re: Wireless Articles
    Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms

    It's already happening with CCTV. I've been playing with SmartSight 802.11a for
    some time now. It's quirky, but once set up works well.
     
  8. Guest

    John O

    I actually work for a security magazine, Security Sales & Integration.
    Went full time with them last October. I use to work for SDM, for
    almost 12 years full time. Spent the last 3 1/2 years back in the
    field in administration for a large union electrical shop, mostly heavy
    fire alarm design and such. I worked in special hazards for about 10
    years of my first 15, mostly industrial processing, computer rooms, and
    the like.

    It may not be 802.11, but it's the most likely candidate. I do agree
    with you, however, if it's ever going to become a de facto signal
    transport system in the security industry someday, there will have to
    be firm standards established so anyone's WLAN will work with anyone's
    WiFi-based burglar alarm system.

    May never happen, but you can be sure that it will all go wireless
    someday, regardless what the wireless methodology is. At least that is
    my personal opinion. I believe that because everything is going
    wireless in the consumer area, and let's face it, when there is such
    R&D spent on the consumer market, like the chip camera, it always seems
    to find its way into the security world.

    Thanks for the yank. :)

    Al
     
  9. Guest

    John O

    I actually work for a security magazine, Security Sales & Integration.
    Went full time with them last October. I use to work for SDM, for
    almost 12 years full time. Spent the last 3 1/2 years back in the
    field in administration for a large union electrical shop, mostly heavy
    fire alarm design and such. I worked in special hazards for about 10
    years of my first 15, mostly industrial processing, computer rooms, and
    the like.

    It may not be 802.11, but it's the most likely candidate. I do agree
    with you, however, if it's ever going to become a de facto signal
    transport system in the security industry someday, there will have to
    be firm standards established so anyone's WLAN will work with anyone's
    WiFi-based burglar alarm system.

    May never happen, but you can be sure that it will all go wireless
    someday, regardless what the wireless methodology is. At least that is
    my personal opinion. I believe that because everything is going
    wireless in the consumer area, and let's face it, when there is such
    R&D spent on the consumer market, like the chip camera, it always seems
    to find its way into the security world.

    Thanks for the yank. :)

    Al
     
  10. Guest

    John O

    I actually work for a security magazine, Security Sales & Integration.
    Went full time with them last October. I use to work for SDM, for
    almost 12 years full time. Spent the last 3 1/2 years back in the
    field in administration for a large union electrical shop, mostly heavy
    fire alarm design and such. I worked in special hazards for about 10
    years of my first 15, mostly industrial processing, computer rooms, and
    the like.

    It may not be 802.11, but it's the most likely candidate. I do agree
    with you, however, if it's ever going to become a de facto signal
    transport system in the security industry someday, there will have to
    be firm standards established so anyone's WLAN will work with anyone's
    WiFi-based burglar alarm system.

    May never happen, but you can be sure that it will all go wireless
    someday, regardless what the wireless methodology is. At least that is
    my personal opinion. I believe that because everything is going
    wireless in the consumer area, and let's face it, when there is such
    R&D spent on the consumer market, like the chip camera, it always seems
    to find its way into the security world.

    Thanks for the yank. :)

    Al
     
  11. BigWallop

    BigWallop Guest

    Wireless will only ever take hold when the whole new digital signalling
    thing is fully discovered. Digital technology is still, really, in its
    infancy, but it shows great promise in becoming a base for wireless security
    systems of the future. With a digitally password protected signal being
    sent from digital detectors to the control centre through these newer
    digital technologies being developed right now, the control panels will soon
    become immune to interference from the outside world. The detector didn't
    send the right password first, so the control panel ignored it and told it
    to stop being silly. Any attempts at jamming the new digital wireless
    systems will also be easier to detect and be worked around by smart chips
    that tell the transmitters to change frequency or some such.

    I think you're correct in your prediction of wireless security systems
    becoming the norm' in the future, but I also think it will be pushed by the
    Do It Yourself market. People can install these systems without incurring
    the costs of a middle man that is (should be) fully trained in these types
    of systems. Fix the new digital wireless control panel to the wall or floor
    beside a power outlet. Fit all the batteries and leave a new digital
    wireless detector on your coffee table in the middle of the room. Plug in.
    And away you go.

    You'll also be in the know about the stand alone traffic cone that doubles
    up as a perimeter protection system. They currently have a three hundred
    sixty degree detector on top and all the batteries and sirens to frighten
    off bandits that get to close for comfort. Well, there is talk of them
    being fitted with GPS and mobile telephone technology so they can call you
    out when someone walks in to their protection area. They're still a bit to
    large to leave lying on the coffee table, but they seem to be becoming so
    smart that they'll soon be able to toddle off and make the tea for you when
    you come home. That's because of digital technology becoming so small that
    it fits almost anywhere.

    It might become normal practice for insurance companies to withdraw cover if
    the system is not installed by a registered company. It may also just save
    the industry if the insurance people do insist on an intruder or fire alarm
    system be installed by a fully qualified and vetted company when the new
    wireless systems become easier to install for the DIYers.

    The whole let down of wireless systems just now, is that they are still too
    easily fooled by outside influences. Something as simple as a hand in
    between the transmitter and receiver can make the system unstable and create
    false reports. But once these influences are taken out of the loop by
    digital technology, then the new fad will most definitely be wireless. It
    also depends on wide band hand-held RF scanners being made totally illegal
    all over the world as well though. :)
     
  12. True and this will happen for a long time to go.
    Its not the digital technology who has to improve, they exist, its the
    band planning allowances and bi-directional communication path who has
    to be implemented in wireless alarm systems.
    It has's still to be affordable (extended technical cost) and
    "mainly" authorized by FCC rules witch isn't the case actually.
    That's last sentence i don't understand.. What has handheld RF
    scanners to do with wireless communication reliability?

    Paul
     
  13. John O

    John O Guest

    It
    This is the Achille's Heel of *all* wireless comms. If I can receive the
    signals, it's only a matter of time and skill before I can figure out what's
    in the data. Then, I can spoof it or overwhelm it.

    -John O
     
  14. ...........

    ........... Guest

    Who's interested in the decoding of the data??? Nobody.
    Its a mater to muzzle the communication and avoid alarm giving.
     
  15. petem

    petem Guest

    PLONK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


     
  16. BigWallop

    BigWallop Guest

    Hand-held scanners are just receivers you can carry around to listen in on
    mobile telephone and other coms' frequencies. They're illegal in the UK
    just now, but that doesn't stop people buying and using them in the privacy
    of their own homes. Newer scanners are now being sold openly that can pick
    up on digital signals, and it's only a matter of time before they can be
    used to decode things like ID signals for mobile phones so the cloning can
    begin.

    Once a digitally password protected system has been compromised, the bandits
    can walk in and take over if they want. So, as you say, it's still the
    Achilles Heel of using wireless technology for security systems.
     
  17. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Hmmm, the know-it-all-who's-never-done-it is debating the moron-from-Belgium

    Interesting
     
  18. .........

    ......... Guest

    Not allowed in Belgium too.

    When you wish to be "allowed" to use a scanner, define it as a
    "measurement tool" (low cost spectrum analyzer) and then you can
    obtain the required authorization to use it.
    I have that way legally a AR8000 (wide range receiver) from AOR as a
    authorized measurement tool...

    Regardless of that, i still don't understand and see why authorities
    are against theyre sail and utilization, it will not prevent
    "interested" persons to listen to the police for instance.
    Its the police duty to protect theyre communications, forbidding sale
    and use is a illusionary protection.
     
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