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Wiper Motor Wiring

hevans1944

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Jun 21, 2012
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... I'm looking at 5 amp 12v power supplies, do you think that would be enough?...
If the power supply is well regulated, that should do the job nicely. By "well regulated" I mean the terminal voltage of the power supply does not change significantly from a nominal 12 V DC as the current demand increases from zero to its rated value of 5 A. You can check this with a load resistance connected to the power supply terminals. By Ohm's law, a resistor drawing 5 A at 12 V will have a value R = V / I = 12 / 5 = 2.4 Ω and will dissipate power P = V I = (12)(5) = 60 watts.

It is unlikely you will have a 2.4 ohm resistor rated for 60 watts handy for testing, and it is not cost-effective to purchase one just to test your power supply. An alternative is to scrounge a few 12 V automobile lamps... a headlamp would be appropriate, but brake lights and turn-signal lights will also work if you connect several in parallel to reach the 5 A maximum current draw. Don't use LED lights; they typically do not draw enough current to adequately "load" your power supply.

Better still, use your wiper motor as the load! Connect it to the power supply before turning on the power supply (to avoid "arcs and sparks" while connecting wires up), energize the power supply briefly and observe whether or not the motor runs. If so, you are almost done.

If the motor does not run, quickly turn off the power supply (to avoid overheating and damaging something), disconnect the motor and begin troubleshooting the problem. We will try to help you with that if the motor doesn't run when it is supplied adequate voltage and current.

... "Please tell us what this "short circuit" current is AND the power supply terminal voltage that occurs when this happens." I'm sorry Hevens I don't understand this, I haven't learned how to measure current yet.
The short-circuit current is the current a power supply will supply at zero terminal voltage. If the load is less than a short circuit, there will be some terminal voltage when the load is applied. The two measurements of short-circuit current and terminal voltage (if any) along with the open-circuit voltage can be used to calculate the internal resistance of the power supply. The internal resistance causes the power supply terminal voltage to decrease with increasing current load. A voltage regulated power supply uses negative feedback to maintain a constant and low internal resistance from no load up to full load so there is no appreciable drop in terminal voltage from zero current to full-load current. Switch-mode power supplies are very good at this and more efficient than linearly-regulated power supplies.

I am going to have to resort to the dreaded water analogy to describe voltage and current measurements. Like any analogy, it does not describe what is really going on, but it can be useful for describing concepts in a more intuitive manner.

In a water delivery system, whether public or private well, water is delivered through pipes by a pump that pressurizes the water in the pipes. Now everyone knows water is pretty much not compressible, so what does this mean? It simply means that there is a force (provided by the pump) that will move the water through the pipes. Pressure is force per unit area. It does not mean that the substance to which the pressure is applied actually responds by compressing, i.e., reducing in volume or increasing in density. So the pump pressurizes the water and this force is measured in pounds per square inch (psi) or more specifically in gauge pressure (psig) meaning the pressure is measured relative to the atmospheric pressure on the outside of the gauge. In this analogy, pressure is equivalent to the voltage in an electrical circuit.

When you turn on a spigot to draw water from the pipes, the water flows through the spigot at a rate you can measure in gallons per minute. In this analogy, water flow rate is equivalent to the current in an electrical circuit. The rate of flow is determined by, among other things, the size of the spigot and the water pressure. The size of the spigot is analogous to resistance in an electrical circuit. Larger spigots have less resistance to water flow than small spigots. Higher pressure means more water flow. To measure this flow you need to insert a flow-meter between the pressurized water source and the spigot. To measure current in an electrical circuit, you need to insert a current-meter (ammeter) between the voltage source and its load.

At this point I will discard the water analogy. I only used it to demonstrate the difference in how you measure voltage (water pressure) and current (water flow) in an electrical circuit. Water flow and electrical flow are not the same phenomena, and the physics and math for water flow are way more complicated than the simple Ohm's Law we use to calculate electrical voltages, currents, and resistances.

Okay, I will assume that you do know how to use an inexpensive digital multi-meter to measure AC and DC voltages, resistance, continuity, and currents up to a few hundred milliamperes (100 mA = 0,1 A). It will typically have only two test leads, black for the common test lead and red for the input test lead. The two leads are always used together as a pair of test leads. There is more you should learn, but simplistically, a modern digital multi-meter is just a liquid crystal display screen, a function switch, and two test probes. If you don't understand that, please let us know right away. If you don't own a digital multi-meter, purchase one right away.

Most multi-meters have a measuring function for high currents that is completely separate from their other functions of measuring volts, ohms, and milliamperes (VOM). Typically there is only one such range and it covers zero to 10 A or zero to 20 A, depending on the meter manufacturer. A common test lead (usually black in color) is used for all mult-imeter measurements, along with another test lead (usually red in color) for measuring voltages with respect to the common lead, resistance in ohms between the two leads, continuity (low resistance) between the two leads, and milliampere currents between the two leads. However, for high currents, another separate jack is provided on the meter case for the multimeter test lead that is used with the common test lead.

To measure current, you have to place the two meter leads in series with the load and set the meter range/function switch to the position used to measure high current. That means you have to disconnect one terminal of the load from the power supply. You now have two terminals in front of you: one on the load, one on the power supply. Connect the meter between those two terminals, making sure it is set to the high-current measuring range and the test leads are plugged into the high-current test jack and the common jack. With digital multi-meters polarity doesn't matter because the meter will always display the polarity. One way will read positive current, and if you reverse the leads to the meter, that other way will read negative current. It's the same current, either way, so ignore the polarity indication.

Until you get more experience, always make the current-metering connections with power off. Turn the power on and measure the current after the connections to do so are established.

Another pitfall to avoid is forgetting the test leads are hooked up for measuring current, and then moving the red test lead to a point where you want to measure voltage. This will usually result in a short circuit that blows a fuse inside the multi-meter. That's right up there with measuring the resistance in a circuit and then trying to measure a voltage without changing the function switch. Both nubie mistakes can result in damage to the multi-meter.

.. I intend on using the motor as in a dead lift scenario, 4cm cam off motor axle, lifting around 1.5kg off an arm around 30cm long, so it will be fairly heavily loaded. Not sure how to calculate this into amps needed, I'm in the middle of learning torque and torque conversion calculations at the minute, getting there slowly.
This is probably NOT going to work. The motor shaft will turn too quickly (hundreds if not thousands of RPM) to allow control of the cam. There IS a way to make it work by using pulse-width modulation to control the motor speed, but you are still looking at huge torque requirements to lift 1.5 kg at the end of a 30 cm lever arm with a 4 cm cam, even if the cam is located directly under the load. You don't specify what the total cam "lift" will be, or where that "lift" is applied to the 30 cm arm. A clean sketch using a black felt-tip marker on plain white paper, well lighted with no shadows, should be photographed and uploaded for our inspection and comments.

I fear you are going to need a geared motor for your lifting application. The windshield wiper gear box contains a worm gear driving a spur gear that in turn drives the reciprocating mechanism. The motor always runs in one direction, at two speeds, and the reciprocating mechanism may not appreciate being driven in reverse. It may jam if reversed. If possible, open the gear box and do your "power take-off" from the shaft of the main gear that is driven by the worm gear. Discard everything else. Or purchase a worm gear speed reducer box and adapt it to fit your motor. Or purchase a geared motor as others here have suggested. But do the torque and speed calculations first, then decide what you need or can adapt to your purpose.

Is your contraption gonna automagically make a musical beat for accompanyment? :D
 
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darren adcock

Sep 26, 2016
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Hi Hevans, that is a great reply thanks. I need to do some homework here. I have ordered a power supply to be able to test this and intend on buying a bench supply with 5amp capacity so I can manage this better in the future.

In the mean time whilst I'm learning here is the requested diagram. A very simple yet demanding mechanism for my purpose, but just want a lift and drop mechanism that can replicate an arm lifting a staff and then dropping it, on a a resonant surface, it's for part of an installation I wish to have ready for 3 weeks time if at all possible. So yes, the automagical music beat is a wish. :-0

FyVlx
 
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hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
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Still no picture yet, but have you thought about just using an electromagnetic solenoid to lift the "staff" and then drop it? This would require some sort of support structure for the solenoid located above the sounding board. You will probably need a spring to make the "whacker" part of the staff rebound from the sounding board after initial contact is made, perhaps latching the staff in the upward position by re-energizing the solenoid until the solenoid is de-energized to "drop" the staff again. Or use a "pusher" solenoid to push the staff downward against a return spring built into the solenoid. That way you minimize the "on" time (and the heating) of the solenoid coil yet still provide a nice impulse to the sounding board. There should be many simple ways to beat a 1.5 kg "staff" against a sounding board. Or do you need to add the "arm" as part of a stage prop simulating a human being holding the staff? Interesting project.
 

darren adcock

Sep 26, 2016
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Still no picture yet, but have you thought about just using an electromagnetic solenoid to lift the "staff" and then drop it? This would require some sort of support structure for the solenoid located above the sounding board. You will probably need a spring to make the "whacker" part of the staff rebound from the sounding board after initial contact is made, perhaps latching the staff in the upward position by re-energizing the solenoid until the solenoid is de-energized to "drop" the staff again. Or use a "pusher" solenoid to push the staff downward against a return spring built into the solenoid. That way you minimize the "on" time (and the heating) of the solenoid coil yet still provide a nice impulse to the sounding board. There should be many simple ways to beat a 1.5 kg "staff" against a sounding board. Or do you need to add the "arm" as part of a stage prop simulating a human being holding the staff? Interesting project.
Sorry Hevans. I did look at solenoid's but I Ideally wanted to imitate a human arm, I didn't realise they could have an inbuilt spring... that's very interesting... a pusher wither a spring would be ideal...and potentially much simpler. I was also thinking about the spring rebound mechanism, that'll need some tuning. I'll try again with image, but this solenoid with spring option sounds much more plausible. Here is the image however 4cm should be 2cm.
HBiAz6m.jpg
 

darren adcock

Sep 26, 2016
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In fact, I hadn't considered that the solenoid would be on/off... bit to sudden to imitate human arm lifting motion.
 

darren adcock

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Ok so time to see if I've learned correctly, and see if I can work out how to calculate all of this.

First equation I think need to be the lever, to calculate force needed to lift 1.5g weight.

Fe = (1.5kg) (9.81 m/s2) (0.3m) / (0.02m)


= 22.07... N

In weight this will be (I hope):

fe = (1.5kg)(0.3m)/(0.02m)

=22.5kg

now I think I need to work out what what torque is required to lift 22.5kg off a 2cm cam. If this is correct, thinking about it this really puts into perspective how demanding this task is for the motor and electronics.

so I think the equation
need for this is:

t (Nm) = (mass)22.5kg x (gravity) 9.81m/s2 x (radius) 0.02m

t (Nm, newton meters) = 4.41

Is this correct? I need a motor that's capable of 4.41Nm (guess it's best to go higher than required)?

something like this, cheaper would be great! http://www.robotshop.com/uk/lynxmot...in-1264-brushed-dc-gear-motor-w--encoder.html
 
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hevans1944

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Jun 21, 2012
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Still not sure what effect you are looking for. Take a look at this picture of a kindly old bearded man about to lift and stomp his staff of power down to cause an expanding wave-front that will split the Earth in two and fling the pieces toward Saturn's orbit... if you don't do as he demands. Well, I suppose he could just be leaning on his staff and he probably doesn't even have the strength to lift it, much less stomp it forcefully...

images


The staff part I think I understand. And I can see how his hands, attached to his arms, can lift the staff and plunge it down forcefully... maybe even musically, depending on what the staff strikes. I've even done something similar using a heavy steel pole called a San Angelo bar to start a hole in packed soil, but nothing really earth-shaking. It's about all I can do some days to even lift that sucker, much less plunge it downward with considerable force...


upload_2016-9-29_17-58-19.jpeg
Your calculations for torque do not look right. The cam, operating at a 4 cm (0.04 m) radius applied to the short end of the 30:1 lever means a 1.5 kg mass applied at the long end of the lever will appear as a 45 kg weight for the cam to lift. This will require a force of 45 x 9.81 = 441 N. The cam rotating on a 4 cm radius will then max out at (441)(0.04) = 17 N m of torque or about 150 pound-inches. Of course these calculations assume the lever is horizontal and doesn't move through the arc you show on your sketch. The torque diminishes as the centerline of the weight moves closer to the fulcrum, becoming zero if the lever is vertical. The torque acting on the cam depends on the cam angle of rotation and cam profile, but let's not get into that right now...

)
 

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darren adcock

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HAAAAAAA yes I comply

Sorry Hevans, I wrote the radius of the cam incorrectly it should be 2cm.

Hmmmm, incorrect calculations, more learning to do.
 

darren adcock

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Mangaged to get the wiper motor working today, thanks all. It didn't cope to well with lifting what I needed and I think I over loaded the variable motor controller circuit, it got very hot. But it'll be a great motor for another mechanism. Now I bought another motor which I'm sure can handle the job, it's a Parvalux motor (I love how this motor looks)the label on it reads: dc 24v, amps 8, watts output I think reads 120w, rpm 2800, rating intermittent, insulation class. Gear box spec, Nm 51, rpm 8, ratio 12/24. I have posted images below. I am hoping to run this at 12v, will It still need the 8 amps? I've not worked on anything this heavy duty before, is it beyond my pay grade? Thanks for help.
JI5WhJh.jpg


TuWjAmq.jpg
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
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That looks like a brushed DC motor rated for 24 V DC, rotating at 2800 RPM and driving a worm-gear right-angle speed reducer. I have no idea what the 12/24 ratio means. Maybe 12 teeth on the worm and 24 teeth on the output gear?

This motor will operate poorly with 12 V DC. Better to use 24 V DC (or more) and pulse-width modulate the current to achieve rated torque at a slower speed. Pretty good torque for your application... you might be able to drive that arm directly from the output shaft without a cam. One and a half kilograms at the end of a thirty centimeter arm requires only 4.2 N m of torque to lift it. So try it with 12 V DC excitation and see if it will do the job before spending money on a PWM controller.
 

Minder

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The 12/24 almost implies it is dual ratio, on 12vdc it will run approximately half the rpm..
It is a strange looking GB, most likely worm and pinion, which are typically fairly high ratio.
With a motor stated at 2800rpm and the GB 8RPM implies a 350:1 GB??
Also intermittent duty on 24v, you should get longer operation on 12v if needed.
Remove that back cover, you may be able to move the shaft manually to find out.
M.
 

darren adcock

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Cheers guys, Just ordered a power supply 12v 10a (again!, need to get a better bench power supply, any reccomendations?). I will try a 24v afterwards and pwm if no luck. I will try and open motor up on weds and see what the ratio refers to, and as suggested try manually turning shaft. If it does run as "half ratio" that would be great as slower the better for my projects needs. Gotta build the tension when crashing things down! :-/
 

darren adcock

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Feel daft asking this, but then better than dead and daft. Do I need to take any safety precautions working with this motor, electrocution?
 

73's de Edd

Aug 21, 2015
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.

Sir Darren . . . . .


Do I need to take any safety precautions working with this motor, electrocution?

. . . . .Just don't get daft and slash both wrists and put the then bared flesh across the 24V. . . . . .

The gear down is double staged..
At their nominal speed on the basic motor, if running at ~2800 RPM . . it initially gets dropped by÷12
down to `233 RPM then the second ÷ 24 gear down gets it down to ~9.7 RPM .
Then figure in any friction and loading down to end up at the spec of 8 RPM.
And with the hefty initial power consumption at the motor proper . . .then prepare yourself for one HELL of a lot or torque at the output shaft.


73's de Edd

.
 

darren adcock

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Cheer Edd!

Only usually work on 9 or 12v at low current so thought it be best to ask!

Hopefully when my power supply arrives it'll work without a glitch and then comes the construction phase, gonna have to be a hefty frame for this. Then hopefully I can post some pics of what it may look like!

Cheers for spec info!

D
 

darren adcock

Sep 26, 2016
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Finally got it ready for the event. It worked great. Made a huge bang in the entrance when people opened the door. Thanks for all your advice. Lot's learned.
ekZS9GN.jpg
 
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