Wiper Motor Wiring

[darren adcock]

HI all, new to this forum as usually on diy stomp box forum, but I'm steadily moving further into mechanics and motors.

I just recieved a Febi 17092 windscreen wiper motor, rated at 12v and 40w. I need to use it for single direction continuos rotation and thought it's be simple enough to wire, obviously not as I'm here. I tried many different configurations, isolating the chassis/ground etc but still can't figure it out. If anyone could offer me advice I'd much appreciate it.

There is five pins on the plug, left is ground/chassis. red and blue wire connect to the motor (i'm assuming these are two different speeds). Thanks for your help

Darren

 

[Minder]

A common 2 sp wiper motor has three leads common, hi sp & low sp, the low speed is an offset brush on the commutator.
So one or the other is energised, not both.
M.

 

[darren adcock]

A common 2 sp wiper motor has three leads common, hi sp & low sp, the low speed is an offset brush on the commutator.
So one or the other is energised, not both.
M.

Thanks M.

So what I did was connect - to common, and tried applying + to the low or high speed but it just shorted, I tested continuity and it seems it's all connected unless I unscrew the brush plate from the chassis.

 

[Minder]

Do you know what vehicle it is from?
M.

 

[darren adcock]

Do you know what vehicle it is from?
M.

It is a VW model, no specific car I think. Here is the amazon link of it as I bought it. I was definitely blind buying based on 12V and price. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0068M3RCC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Minder]

This shows the normal 2 sp brush set up where Blue is common, red is low speed and yellow is high speed.
M.

 

[darren adcock]

Thanks M, that's useful.

I'll re open motor on Wednesday when I'm back in my workshop and report back.

Edit*

In fact, let's see if I get this correct. As long as blue (common) is connected to - and red or yellow to + the motor should turn? And I figure I'll have to isolate the ground from the chassis? as if not there's continuity to both speeds. Writing that last sentence makes me think I'm missing something.

 

[Minder]

As long as mechanically there is no reason why you cannot run in reverse then polarity should not matter, but in a installation blue would be common or -ve.
A visual inspection of the brushes/connections should bring some enlightenment.
M.

 

[hevans1944]

I only see two wires disappearing into the motor. Is there continuity from either or both of these wires to the motor frame? If so, then the frame is the return lead and either the red or blue leads control the motor speed, per @Minder's comment. At 40 watts and 12 V, this motor will draw in excess of 3A, more if heavily loaded or not rotating. Is your power supply capable of delivering three amperes or more at twelve volts? It would be normal to measure continuity between the red and blue wires, but if there is also continuity to the motor frame then you apply 12 V between the frame and either, but not both, red or blue wires. You say "it just shorted" when you tried this. Please tell us what this "short circuit" current is AND the power supply terminal voltage that occurs when this happens. I suspect your power source, if not a lead-acid battery, is not "stiff" enough to power this motor. Are you using a lead-acid battery or <gasp!> a wall wart to try to power this motor?

 

[73's de Edd]

.

Sir darren adcock . . . .

I will just further confirm that a bit of power will be required to run that unit, particularly if taking on a load.

I need to use it for single direction continuos (sic) rotation and thought it's be simple enough to wire,

THAT aspect has already been manufactured within the internals of the gearbox portion . . . .with it creating a cyclic duo directional action.
That is being accomplished by either a linkage rod / cam or eccentric, you will have to disassemble in order to inspect and see if that specific design aspect of its mechanics is being alterable.
Hope that you didn't spend up in the big bux $27-39 price range for that unit, as some of these offerings just below might have been a better fit to your needs . . .especially in that continuous same direction of drive aspect. (With the natural option of reversal of supplied voltage polarity, to reverse motor running direction.)

E.g. :

http://www.allelectronics.com/category/400400/motors/dc-gear-motors/1.html

As for the dead start power consumption of power , that has been minimized by the fact that the motor is feeding into a geared situation.
Remember on a 10 speed bike . . . . that it easy to start off in a low gear position , while VERY hard to start off, if not impossible, on a high geared position.


73's de Edd

.

 

[darren adcock]

I only see two wires disappearing into the motor. Is there continuity from either or both of these wires to the motor frame? If so, then the frame is the return lead and either the red or blue leads control the motor speed, per @Minder's comment. At 40 watts and 12 V, this motor will draw in excess of 3A, more if heavily loaded or not rotating. Is your power supply capable of delivering three amperes or more at twelve volts? It would be normal to measure continuity between the red and blue wires, but if there is also continuity to the motor frame then you apply 12 V between the frame and either, but not both, red or blue wires. You say "it just shorted" when you tried this. Please tell us what this "short circuit" current is AND the power supply terminal voltage that occurs when this happens. I suspect your power source, if not a lead-acid battery, is not "stiff" enough to power this motor. Are you using a lead-acid battery or <gasp!> a wall wart to try to power this motor?

Hi Hevans, thanks for your reply.

I was going to ask about amp requirements for this motor. I am not well versed in amp/current draw to be honest and yes your gasp is valid as I was going to run it off a wallwart, I'm glad your gasp appeared here. I've just checked my bench supplies data and it can only supply 2.5 amps max. I intend on using the motor as in a dead lift scenario, 4cm cam off motor axle, lifting around 1.5kg off an arm around 30cm long, so it will be fairly heavily loaded. Not sure how to calculate this into amps needed, I'm in the middle of learning torque and torque conversion calculations at the minute, getting there slowly. I'm looking at 5 amp 12v power supplies, do you think that would be enough?

"Please tell us what this "short circuit" current is AND the power supply terminal voltage that occurs when this happens." I'm sorry Hevens I don't understand this, I haven't learned how to measure current yet.

 

[darren adcock]

.

Sir darren adcock . . . .

I will just further confirm that a bit of power will be required to run that unit, particularly if taking on a load.

I need to use it for single direction continuos (sic) rotation and thought it's be simple enough to wire,

THAT aspect has already been manufactured within the internals of the gearbox portion . . . .with it creating a cyclic duo directional action.
That is being accomplished by either a linkage rod / cam or eccentric, you will have to disassemble in order to inspect and see if that specific design aspect of its mechanics is being alterable.

73's de Edd

.

Thanks Edd,

Looks Like I got some learning to do here ie power requirements for this unit.

It was the first time I'd opened one of these up and wasn't sure if the back forth mechanism of wipers was internal to the gearbox, fortunately in this case it was not. It's a worm gear to a large gear with a metal surface that meets the speed brushes (not quite sure what the terminology here is). Thanks for help

Darren

 

[darren adcock]

Hi Hevans, thanks for your reply.

I was going to ask about amp requirements for this motor. I am not well versed in amp/current draw to be honest and yes your gasp is valid as I was going to run it off a wallwart, I'm glad your gasp appeared here. I've just checked my bench supplies data and it can only supply 2.5 amps max. I intend on using the motor as in a dead lift scenario, 4cm cam off motor axle, lifting around 1.5kg off an arm around 30cm long, so it will be fairly heavily loaded. Not sure how to calculate this into amps needed, I'm in the middle of learning torque and torque conversion calculations at the minute, getting there slowly. I'm looking at 5 amp 12v power supplies, do you think that would be enough?

"Please tell us what this "short circuit" current is AND the power supply terminal voltage that occurs when this happens." I'm sorry Hevens I don't understand this, I haven't learned how to measure current yet.

Yes there is continuity from both to the frame. So When I get an appropriate power supply, I apply - (return) to the frame and then + to either lead? Probably another gasp is going to appear here, I was going to see about controlling the speed via voltage control, by using LM317 variable regulator, however on another unit I've put together (much lighter motor) I've noticed these get very hot under load, so I'm assuming in this case I will need something more substantial?

Thanks

Darren

 

[73's de Edd]

.


Sir darren adcock . . . . . . .



I have added onto my earlier # 10 post, so go back and read the final add on, and also . . . . . . a stand alone LM317 just can't handle your motors power/current needs.
So o o o o o . . . . . read up on using a companion power transistor in conjunction, such that the '317 keeps doing all of its great and wonderful things, while the real power carrying burden is then being placed upon its companion POWER transistor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lm3...czt7ZM:;ahqyWGW7zOZwHM:&imgrc=UAPyrqvyczt7ZM:



73's de Edd


.

 

[HellasTechn]

I'm glad your gasp appeared here. I've just checked my bench supplies data and it can only supply 2.5 amps max.

I think you will need at least 3 to 4 Amps capable power suppply.

however on another unit I've put together (much lighter motor) I've noticed these get very hot under load,

Depending on how much current flows through, Heatsinks may be required but in your case you should do as Edd adviced you.

 

[Minder]

There is an abundance of 555 based PWM DC motor controllers on ebay for ~$5.00 that should drive it!.
M.

 

[darren adcock]

.

Sir darren adcock . . . .

I will just further confirm that a bit of power will be required to run that unit, particularly if taking on a load.

I need to use it for single direction continuos (sic) rotation and thought it's be simple enough to wire,

THAT aspect has already been manufactured within the internals of the gearbox portion . . . .with it creating a cyclic duo directional action.
That is being accomplished by either a linkage rod / cam or eccentric, you will have to disassemble in order to inspect and see if that specific design aspect of its mechanics is being alterable.
Hope that you didn't spend up in the big bux $27-39 price range for that unit, as some of these offerings just below might have been a better fit to your needs . . .especially in that continuous same direction of drive aspect. (With the natural option of reversal of supplied voltage polarity, to reverse motor running direction.)

E.g. :

http://www.allelectronics.com/category/400400/motors/dc-gear-motors/1.html

As for the dead start power consumption of power , that has been minimized by the fact that the motor is feeding into a geared situation.
Remember on a 10 speed bike . . . . that it easy to start off in a low gear position , while VERY hard to start off, if not impossible, on a high geared position.


73's de Edd

.

Thanks Edd.

I did spend £25 on motor. That website has given me some ideas. I initially thought about using a car window motor but couldn't find one I could afford, seems they are double the price over here in UK. As I'm relatively new to motors I've been buying quite blindly to be honest, then seeing if it works for my needs, if not I've tried to go up in torque and cost. With my limited understanding of the mathematics involved and Electrical knowledge I've learned to accept that I sometimes get something not suitable, not ideal, but it's worked so far. However working with motors has taught me more in the past 6 months in terms of electronics than a year or so of making pedals etc.

 

[darren adcock]

.


Sir darren adcock . . . . . . .



I have added onto my earlier # 10 post, so go back and read the final add on, and also . . . . . . a stand alone LM317 just can't handle your motors power/current needs.
So o o o o o . . . . . read up on using a companion power transistor in conjunction, such that the '317 keeps doing all of its great and wonderful things, while the real power carrying burden is then being placed upon its companion POWER transistor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lm317+with+current+boost+transistor&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT6K3giK_PAhXLQyYKHVZMAwYQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=950#imgdii=UAPyrqvyczt7ZM:;UAPyrqvyczt7ZM:;ahqyWGW7zOZwHM:&imgrc=UAPyrqvyczt7ZM:



73's de Edd


.

Hi Edd.

That circuit is a bit beyond me to be honest, also it's 220v supply and I'm not that confident with that. Maybe I can buy a power supply ready made, I'm looking at this http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/switched-mode-12v-dc-5a-regulated-cctv-power-supply-n63jn there's a 10amp version also. But maybe I should just buy a different motor? If you wouldn't mind recommending something? I'm happy to persevere with the one I've bought as it may teach me more. But it may just be a bit beyond my skill level.

 

[darren adcock]

There is an abundance of 555 based PWM DC motor controllers on ebay for ~$5.00 that should drive it!.
M.

Thanks M, I've bought some of these before. I shall do so again. Thanks.

 

[darren adcock]

I think you will need at least 3 to 4 Amps capable power suppply.


Depending on how much current flows through, Heatsinks may be required but in your case you should do as Edd adviced you.

Thanks Constantine, it's seeming pretty obvious I didn't factor in what power I would need here. Luckily I bench tested it with a bench supply that has current limiting otherwise things would have got very hot very quicly I fear.