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Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by Mark Kelep, Mar 14, 2008.

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  1. I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current
    off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system.

    And NO, it is NOT easy to do.

    If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would
    likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system.
     
  2. Guest

    | On 17 Mar 2008 18:09:16 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>| On 16 Mar 2008 17:18:58 GMT, wrote:
    |>|
    |>|>
    |>|>| From various stuff I've read, I think this is what's going on:
    |>|>| Normally, all the current is carried by the submarine cable conductors,
    |>|>| and the ground rods do nothing. But if one of the conductors ever
    |>|>| becomes open, the ground rods at this end (along with another array
    |>|>| somewhere on Vancouver Island) provide a return path via sea water that
    |>|>| would allow the remaining good conductor to deliver half the normal
    |>|>| power. This much DC current would likely corrode the ground rods pretty
    |>|>| fast, but is better than losing the entire cable capacity.
    |>|>
    |>|>And sound a bunch of alarms, too :)
    |>|
    |>|
    |>| DC links typically get converted back to AC for the distribution
    |>| segments.
    |>|
    |>| So the converter station and the source make for only ONE path
    |>| for the link.
    |>|
    |>| No "ground rods" are used for such huge power passes. It is a far
    |>| different system.
    |>
    |>Something has to be there in the ground. What do YOU think it is? Some
    |>metal that cannot be corroded? Some conductive ceramic?
    |
    |
    | For Megawatts? It ain't ground rods.

    For megawatts it isn't SMALL ... but it has to be SOMETHING stuck into the
    ground. Are you saying "ain't ground rods" because the SHAPE doesn't look
    like a rod (or a huge array of big ones)?


    | It is likely a huge slab at each end that is some power station
    | enhanced version of an ufer system sitting on a wet link to bedrock.

    OK, I'll call it an "earthing electrode". There, it isn't a "rod".

    Now back to the original question ... will it corrode?
     
  3. Guest

    | I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current
    | off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system.
    |
    | And NO, it is NOT easy to do.

    Maybe. Maybe not.


    | If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would
    | likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system.

    Get caught how? It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. There already is a natural source
    of electricity to be acquired from earth. There is no reason anyone should
    be prohibited from gathering it. It may not be huge or consistent. And
    it may well have complications at times (like when storms pass over). But
    it is doable (I know someone who harvested enough to light some bulbs until
    a storm melted his conductors and he gave up).
     
  4. WRONG. Any power line passes that cross private property get rights to do
    so, and it is usually before the property gets bought by anyone.

    Not only that, but they have the right to monitor ALL of their towers,
    and ALL of the space under where their lines pass.

    Huh? What? electrostatic? No work can be done there.

    It may be NIL 99.9999% of the time too.

    Like I said, one MAY be able to gain an "extraction" from an AC
    distribution line, but you won't be tapping off a DC link any time soon.

    The day you decide to do so, I want to watch... from a distance... with
    a video camera rolling.
     
  5. Guest

    | On 17 Mar 2008 20:27:04 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>
    |>| I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current
    |>| off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system.
    |>|
    |>| And NO, it is NOT easy to do.
    |>
    |>Maybe. Maybe not.
    |>
    |>
    |>| If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would
    |>| likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system.
    |>
    |>Get caught how? It's PRIVATE PROPERTY.
    |
    | WRONG. Any power line passes that cross private property get rights to do
    | so, and it is usually before the property gets bought by anyone.
    |
    | Not only that, but they have the right to monitor ALL of their towers,
    | and ALL of the space under where their lines pass.

    However, they do NOT get a right to deprive the owner from any NATURAL
    rights. An overhead AC power line does not deprive the owner from the
    right to get ground power. But an overhead DCGR power line would do so
    *IF* the power company tries to enforce against the owner extracting
    ground currents that normally exist ANYWHERE.

    I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you
    know of a case where this has been tested which involves DC with ground
    return (not AC) and the owner extracting GROUND currents (not from the
    lines or the magnetic fields), then let me know.


    |> There already is a natural source
    |>of electricity to be acquired from earth.
    |
    | Huh? What? electrostatic? No work can be done there.

    I did not say electrostatic. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?
    Is making up stuff people don't say your typical practice?


    |> There is no reason anyone should
    |>be prohibited from gathering it.
    |
    | Gathering?

    Collecting, harvesting, whatever.


    |> It may not be huge or consistent.
    |
    | It may be NIL 99.9999% of the time too.

    I'll disregard this comment because it seems you don't even know what I was
    talking about.


    |> And
    |>it may well have complications at times (like when storms pass over). But
    |>it is doable (I know someone who harvested enough to light some bulbs until
    |>a storm melted his conductors and he gave up).
    |
    | Like I said, one MAY be able to gain an "extraction" from an AC
    | distribution line, but you won't be tapping off a DC link any time soon.

    Then if you were the CEO of the electric transmission company running a DC
    line involving a ground return, and I, a landower near the transmission
    line, were extracting currents in the ground by means of deep electrodes
    at two far ends of my land, you would not mind?


    | The day you decide to do so, I want to watch... from a distance... with
    | a video camera rolling.

    You'll be bored.

    How much power do you really think can come from the ground even with a
    DCGR line running nearby?
     

  6. I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky
    insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it.
     
  7. Guest

    | On 18 Mar 2008 02:24:02 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you
    |>know of a case
    |
    |
    | I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky
    | insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it.

    I really don't know how much of the ground current would be added to from
    the power line. But I do know that at times the natural ground current
    that can be had from a lot the size of a football field, as a thunderstorm
    passes over, is way more than a few watts. On a calm day there is not much.
     

  8. If it was feasible, it would already be an "alternative power source".

    Since I have yet to see a single installation of such a "power" device,
    I doubt that the numbers you relate are as valid as some of the other
    things you do know about.
     
  9. Guest

    | On 19 Mar 2008 05:26:27 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>| On 18 Mar 2008 02:24:02 GMT, wrote:
    |>|
    |>|>I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you
    |>|>know of a case
    |>|
    |>|
    |>| I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky
    |>| insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it.
    |>
    |>I really don't know how much of the ground current would be added to from
    |>the power line. But I do know that at times the natural ground current
    |>that can be had from a lot the size of a football field, as a thunderstorm
    |>passes over, is way more than a few watts. On a calm day there is not much.
    |
    |
    | If it was feasible, it would already be an "alternative power source".

    It has limited feasibility. It requires good soil, a large land area,
    preferrably flat. The amount of power you can get varies greatly from
    enough to light a couple bulbs sometimes to enough to melt a 250 kcmil
    wire if left in a shorted state (when a strong storm line passes by).
    It would be less feasible than wind power in most places. It would
    require the ability to convert a very wide voltage range and a lot of
    storage. It's by no means something that will catch on. But it is
    something a few people could do.


    | Since I have yet to see a single installation of such a "power" device,
    | I doubt that the numbers you relate are as valid as some of the other
    | things you do know about.

    I've seen one such installation. It was experimental.
     
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