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Which uController to learn?

Discussion in 'Electronic Components' started by John E., Mar 15, 2007.

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  1. linnix

    linnix Guest

    Yes, an internal PLL at 200 MHz.
    I have to slow it down to talk to the AVR anyway.
    Unfortunately, they are often conflictings, i.e. USB vs. Serial.
  2. krw

    krw Guest

    I never said it was! Perhaps you'd like to read what I wrote.
    Nonsense. If anything RISC's instructions are less specialized.
    There aren't any string moves to memory, for instance.
    That is pretty much the definition of RISC, so yes... They generally
    have LOTSA register though. It's easier scheduling data when you
    have lots of places to put it. Register management is more complex
    with CISC processors.
    Huh? When does a customer request functionality from a compiler?
  3. DJ Delorie

    DJ Delorie Guest

    When you write compilers for a living, as I do, and the customer is
    the one who created the chip you're targetting. They're usually the
    ones who pay for embedded development tools.
  4. Slightly. ;-) Sounds allot like an ARM knockoff. I wonder what the power
    dissipation is on that, I'm guessing it's a bit more than my slow,
    cumbersome PIC. I bet it costs more than a $1 too. ;-)
  5. There's not much difference between them. The most significant is
    probably that the mega series has a hardware 8-bit MUL instruction which
    takes two clock cycles. I would not say that going from one series to
    the other necessitates any more modifications than going between parts
    in the same series.

    Maybe you were thinking of the AVR32?
  6. Guest

    | jasen wrote:
    |>> TT_Man wrote:
    |>>>> As you said, PIC is king and it is for a reason, they work.
    |>>> Only if you can get to grips with the appalling op code set..... OK
    |>>> if you can program in C , I suppose.I can't/won't
    |>> I only do assembler on the PIC too. What's wrong with the op-code
    |>> set? It's RISC,
    |> no it's not, it has too few registers to qualify.
    | By whose definition? It stands for Reduced Instruction Set. 35
    | instructions is pretty reduced IMO.

    I guess some people thought RISC meant Registers In Surplus Capacity.

    |>> it has 35 instructions, it's not supposed to be luxurious. It's
    |>> supposed to be functional and succeeds.
    |> It always seemed kind of awkward and slow slow to me.
    | Compared to what? 10MIPs on a few mA is pretty good in my book.

    I like that book.
  7. jasen

    jasen Guest

    The 32Khz are you do that using the watchog and prescaler? 128KHz/4 or an
    external clock.

    It looks like the internal RC can be pulled across an octave in 256 steps
    so getting within 0.5% of some multiple of 38400 should be possible.
    yeah, it'd need an external clock if it wanted to do serial at standard
    rates and bit-bang the usb

    someone was saying that the AVRs are standing still while the PICs are
    advancing, I'm not seeing that. the ATTiny2313 datasheet has 3 times as many
    pages as the AT90S2313, and it seems like it has three times the features too,

    that part's been available for a while now but I see they are upgrading
    other parts to 20Mhz and I assume the other new 2313 fearures too

    still binary and electically compatible with the at90s2313 AIUI.
    (except for parallel programming)
  8. jasen

    jasen Guest

    Pretty much everyones (with the exception of the PIC fans).

    google "what is risc" sometime.
  9. jasen

    jasen Guest

    20 on a ATTiny2313 last year, megas to0 this year, up from 16.

    I've only compared the ATTiny2313 and the AT90S2313

    Those two certainly appear to be binary compatible in that the newer Tiny
    will run the older 90S programs and perform the same.
    how often is 10 bits too few ?

  10. Lionel

    Lionel Guest

    Quite often. Photography & audio work, just for two popular examples.
  11. Agreed. SOme tasks like laser scanning might call for a small dedicated
    controller, and you'd certainly want 16 bits there, especially if colour
    mixing was needed.

    Even a small task like lin/log conversion, which many on Usenet advise me
    was best solved by code, needs to use 16 bits for accuracy over a decent
    range. Unless more tiny micros are made with 16 bit ADC and DAC on board,
    people will always be agonising over expensive analog computation IC's. Far
    better that we have a small number of cheap standard parts we can learn to
    code for. If I knew I could have this, I'd put more effort into learning
    it. I don't want to do it with a 40 pin device that needs a diploma to
    learn either, I want to do it with a 4 pin IC and some very simple high
    level language.

    The way things are now, even real experts have argued and floundered over
    what best to advise. If more small micros had 16 bit analog I/O built in,
    people like me wouldn't even have to ask.
  12. Hmm, I'd settle for 8. :) Is what I meant... 8 pin DIL or SMT type.
    Something easy to work with.
  13. linnix

    linnix Guest

    Unless more tiny micros are made with 16 bit ADC and DAC on board,
    If you need 16 bits, the additional chip is the least of your problem.
    The noise with D & A circuits on the same board will be so difficult
    to deal with, let alone on the same chip.
  14. Good point... Makes me wonder why I was so often told that the problem is
    best solved with code. Analog computation doesn't look so expensive, given
    the ease of handling the parts and signals.
  15. Sjouke Burry

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    What do you not understand about
    "Reduced Instruction Set Computer"?
    (A computer with a reduced instruction set???)
    A computer with about 30 instructions can be called
    a risc computer,as compared to the x86 group with about 500.
    Now if you want to claim that name for something else,
    you better explain that, because I think a lot of people
    dont agree with you.
  16. krw

    krw Guest

    The term is "Reduce Instruction Set Complexity".
    No, it's a computer with a set of less complex instructions. The set
    can still be quite large and complex (e.g. PowerPC).
    Not necessarily. If it has memory reference arithmetic instructions
    Anyone with a passing familiarity with computer architecture will.
  17. Lionel

    Lionel Guest

    No, it isn't:
    I have more than a "passing familiarity" with computer architecture
    (nearly 30 years, so far), & I don't agree with you.
  18. jasen

    jasen Guest

    you want to do serious audio *1 or imaging *2 on a 20MIPS 8-bitter ?

    *1 for toys, or telephony, 8 bits are enough

    *2 I can't see 10 bits needed for an exposure meter,
    at low speeds switched gain is an option.
  19. krw

    krw Guest

    Funny, the people who invented the term (and the first example
    hardware) do. I tend to defer to them.
  20. Lionel

    Lionel Guest

    You think?
    Feel free to post authoritative reference.
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