Which phase is my electrik socket on?

[Cameo]

It passes HF from one phase to the other, so there is no reason it
wouldn't.

It is high pass filter, so there would be no limit imposed, so there
should be no reason it wouldn't work.

Come to think of it the X-10 control for my christmas tree lights is
also in the same family room I was planning to put the 2nd HomePlug
adapter and it worked with the X-10 controller that is on the foyer
circuit. How come that worked across the two phases? I did not put in
any filter bridge for that.

 

[F Murtz]

That doesn't tell you which side of the center tap they're on. The
two "hots" are interleaved down each side of the panel, so an odd
number between will be on the same "side" of the transformer.

Does not matter he just wants the adapter on the same bit of wireing.

 

[F Murtz]

I already know they are NOT on the same fused circuit. I just don't know
if they are still on the same phase or not.

Take the cover off the board and you should be able to physically see
which phase goes to which fuses and track it from there

 

[bud--]

Oh, shoot! There goes my HomePlug idea unless I really want to call an
electrician. But that in itself would probably cost more than a good
HomePlug kit. Anyway, thanks for the reply.

Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.

I agree with Rich.

An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would not
use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]

I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you should
really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.

What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It is
OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect at the
top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.

The breaker "color" tells you which breakers are 15A and which are 20A -
another miss for AlwaysWrong.

 

[Rich.]

You didn't state that you were running two 120 volt circuits with a
common neutral, so do try moving the goalposts.

We were talking about outlet circuits, and as you can see above I wrote,
"Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire". I specified breakerS and 3-wire. What
other conclusion would or could anyone draw from that?

 

[Cameo]

When engineering became nothing more than contract management, the fun
was
over.

Though I was referring to the fun on b....general ng, but now I seem to
remember a sendoff we gave you on that group a few years before I left
there.

 

[Cameo]

Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.

Thanks, I try ...

I agree with Rich.

An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would
not use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]

I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you
should really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.

What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It
is OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect
at the top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.

I'm sure you're right about that. By the way, my PC is in a study just
off the foyer, so that's why it's on the same circuit. I'm going to find
out what else might be on it that justified the 30A breaker.
What I still don't get is why all my X-10 controls work in the house.
They are all on different circuits and phases.

 

[krw]

Come to think of it the X-10 control for my christmas tree lights is
also in the same family room I was planning to put the 2nd HomePlug
adapter and it worked with the X-10 controller that is on the foyer
circuit. How come that worked across the two phases? I did not put in
any filter bridge for that.

You have enough stray capacitance between the legs to bridge the
signal without the X-10 bridge. This is often the case but stray
capacitance can also stop the bridge from working. X-10 is a really
crappy setup.

 

[krw]

I was not referring to ANY of the 240 volt service breakers, you
retarded twit. Obviously.

Oh, the red and blue color coded 240V breakers? ...and the double
breakers crossing over from the left to the right sides? DimBulb,
you're such a stupid shit.

I also said that I was unfamiliar with it and that I was making an
assumption.

A *obviously* wrong one as always, AlwaysWrong. What a putz.

 

[krw]

Best description yet. That "left, right, left" crap was too confusing.

Obviously it was for you, DimBulb. You thought red and blue color
codes for the opposite legs. What a dufus!

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Too bad that you didn't bet your sorry life. We would be rid of you
and your always wrong answers.

Not by your hand, you pussified fucking total retard.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

We were talking about outlet circuits, and as you can see above I wrote,
"Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire". I specified breakerS and 3-wire. What
other conclusion would or could anyone draw from that?

I think you did a fine job of describing THAT type of branch circuit,
which DOES exist.

 

[Cameo]

You have enough stray capacitance between the legs to bridge the
signal without the X-10 bridge. This is often the case but stray
capacitance can also stop the bridge from working. X-10 is a really
crappy setup.

My only excuse is that it's been there for about 20 years and has been
working more or less satisfactorily. But now I am kinda' prisoner of it
too, because the control software is DOS based and the controller uses
the serial port directly. So I have to keep a DOS partition on my PC
till I sell my house. Hopefully in a couple of years.

 

[krw]

My only excuse is that it's been there for about 20 years and has been
working more or less satisfactorily. But now I am kinda' prisoner of it
too, because the control software is DOS based and the controller uses
the serial port directly. So I have to keep a DOS partition on my PC
till I sell my house. Hopefully in a couple of years.

You could upgrade the software and/or your controller. They're cheap
now.

 

[Cameo]

You could upgrade the software and/or your controller. They're cheap
now.

For the 2-3 years I still plan to own this house is not worth to me.

 

[Cameo]

I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you
should really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.

Bud, I checked again what else is on the 30A Foyer circuit and it looks
like there are some outside GFP sockets also on the same circuit. As
those sockets are used to power such things as electric lawn mower and
various power tools, perhaps that justified the higher breaker rating. I
assume the wires are also heavier gage there.

 

[James Sweet]

Come to think of it the X-10 control for my christmas tree lights is
also in the same family room I was planning to put the 2nd HomePlug
adapter and it worked with the X-10 controller that is on the foyer
circuit. How come that worked across the two phases? I did not put in
any filter bridge for that.

Sometimes it just works, it depends on a lot of factors. As someone else
said, it can also be coupled through a 240V load because those span both
sides.

 

[James Sweet]

Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.

Thanks, I try ...

I agree with Rich.

An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would
not use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]

I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you
should really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.

What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It
is OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect
at the top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.

I'm sure you're right about that. By the way, my PC is in a study just
off the foyer, so that's why it's on the same circuit. I'm going to find
out what else might be on it that justified the 30A breaker.
What I still don't get is why all my X-10 controls work in the house.
They are all on different circuits and phases.

Well they are *supposed* to work that way afterall, it's just common to
have issues, especially in modern homes with so many sources of
electrical noise as well as filters in power supplies that can attenuate
the signal. The two sides are coupled by the distribution transformer
afterall which in many cases is only a few tens of feet from the house.

When I was a teenager my friend and I discovered that my X10 remote
would operate some of the lights on and in his neighbor's house. We just
clicked the dial through each frequency pressing the all lights on
button until something came on. Poor neighbors finally disconnected it.

 

[bud--]

Bud, I checked again what else is on the 30A Foyer circuit and it looks
like there are some outside GFP sockets also on the same circuit. As
those sockets are used to power such things as electric lawn mower and
various power tools, perhaps that justified the higher breaker rating. I
assume the wires are also heavier gage there.

Ordinary devices, like receptacles, are only allowed on a 20A circuit
max. The equipment you plug-in, like your lawn mower, is only intended
to be plugged into a 20A circuit max. High probability the wire is 15A
(#14), small probability it is 20A (#20), about zero probabilty it is
30A (#10). Even if it is 30A wire, the limitations above apply.

The 30A breaker is a fire hazard.

 

[Cameo]

Well they are *supposed* to work that way afterall, it's just common
to have issues, especially in modern homes with so many sources of
electrical noise as well as filters in power supplies that can
attenuate the signal. The two sides are coupled by the distribution
transformer afterall which in many cases is only a few tens of feet
from the house.

Browsing through the internet I discovered something that indicates that
I don't even need to worry about cross-phase functionality of HomePlug
devices if they are the newer AV 200 Mbps variety. There is this FAQ
item on in the following link:

Question:In my house are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
EthernetAdapter connect one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase
coupling operates without an installation of a phase coupler whileusing
the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish
yournetwork connections via two or three phasesQuestion:In my house are
three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps EthernetAdapter connect
one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without
an installation of a phase coupler whileusing the HomePlug AV 200Mbps
Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish yournetwork connections via two
or three phasesQuestion:
In my house there are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
Ethernet Adapter connect one phase to another?

Answer:
Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without an installation of a phase
coupler while using the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also
can establish your network connections via two or three phases.

<ftp://ftp.aztech.com/support/Singapore/HomePlug/HL108E%20HomeplugAV%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf>

The following white paper explains the reason:

<http://www.atheros.com/pt/plc/downloads/whitepaper_PLCCrossphase.pdf>

What do you think?

When I was a teenager my friend and I discovered that my X10 remote
would operate some of the lights on and in his neighbor's house. We
just clicked the dial through each frequency pressing the all lights
on button until something came on. Poor neighbors finally disconnected
it.

Yes, but X-10 remote controls are radio transmitters, so with the chance
of using the same house code by neighbors, it's relatively easy to
control their lights. X-10 does not use signal encryption.