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Which phase is my electrik socket on?

Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by Cameo, Jan 3, 2010.

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  1. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    Come to think of it the X-10 control for my christmas tree lights is
    also in the same family room I was planning to put the 2nd HomePlug
    adapter and it worked with the X-10 controller that is on the foyer
    circuit. How come that worked across the two phases? I did not put in
    any filter bridge for that.
     
  2. F Murtz

    F Murtz Guest

    Does not matter he just wants the adapter on the same bit of wireing.
     
  3. F Murtz

    F Murtz Guest


    Take the cover off the board and you should be able to physically see
    which phase goes to which fuses and track it from there
     
  4. bud--

    bud-- Guest

    Nice pics - "a picture is worth a thousand words" certainly applies.

    I agree with Rich.

    An electrician (or other competent person) could swap a couple breaker
    connections so "kitchen/..." is on the same leg as "foyer". [I would not
    use "phase" for buses in a single phase panel.]

    I would add that "Foyer" in all probability should be a 15A (or small
    possibility a 20A) breaker. If it supplies 'ordinary' outlets you should
    really change it - 30A is a fire hazard.

    What you have is a "split bus" panel which is relatively unusual. It is
    OK but a new service panel would have a single service disconnect at the
    top. You have 3, and could have up to 6.

    The breaker "color" tells you which breakers are 15A and which are 20A -
    another miss for AlwaysWrong.
     
  5. Rich.

    Rich. Guest

    We were talking about outlet circuits, and as you can see above I wrote,
    "Not if the breakers go to a 3-wire". I specified breakerS and 3-wire. What
    other conclusion would or could anyone draw from that?
     
  6. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    Though I was referring to the fun on b....general ng, but now I seem to
    remember a sendoff we gave you on that group a few years before I left
    there.
     
  7. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    Thanks, I try ...
    I'm sure you're right about that. By the way, my PC is in a study just
    off the foyer, so that's why it's on the same circuit. I'm going to find
    out what else might be on it that justified the 30A breaker.
    What I still don't get is why all my X-10 controls work in the house.
    They are all on different circuits and phases.
     
  8. krw

    krw Guest

    You have enough stray capacitance between the legs to bridge the
    signal without the X-10 bridge. This is often the case but stray
    capacitance can also stop the bridge from working. X-10 is a really
    crappy setup.
     
  9. krw

    krw Guest

    Oh, the red and blue color coded 240V breakers? ...and the double
    breakers crossing over from the left to the right sides? DimBulb,
    you're such a stupid shit.
    A *obviously* wrong one as always, AlwaysWrong. What a putz.
     
  10. krw

    krw Guest

    Obviously it was for you, DimBulb. You thought red and blue color
    codes for the opposite legs. What a dufus!
     

  11. Not by your hand, you pussified fucking total retard.
     

  12. I think you did a fine job of describing THAT type of branch circuit,
    which DOES exist.
     
  13. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    My only excuse is that it's been there for about 20 years and has been
    working more or less satisfactorily. But now I am kinda' prisoner of it
    too, because the control software is DOS based and the controller uses
    the serial port directly. So I have to keep a DOS partition on my PC
    till I sell my house. Hopefully in a couple of years.
     
  14. krw

    krw Guest

    You could upgrade the software and/or your controller. They're cheap
    now.
     
  15. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    For the 2-3 years I still plan to own this house is not worth to me.
     
  16. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    Bud, I checked again what else is on the 30A Foyer circuit and it looks
    like there are some outside GFP sockets also on the same circuit. As
    those sockets are used to power such things as electric lawn mower and
    various power tools, perhaps that justified the higher breaker rating. I
    assume the wires are also heavier gage there.
     
  17. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest


    Sometimes it just works, it depends on a lot of factors. As someone else
    said, it can also be coupled through a 240V load because those span both
    sides.
     
  18. James Sweet

    James Sweet Guest


    Well they are *supposed* to work that way afterall, it's just common to
    have issues, especially in modern homes with so many sources of
    electrical noise as well as filters in power supplies that can attenuate
    the signal. The two sides are coupled by the distribution transformer
    afterall which in many cases is only a few tens of feet from the house.

    When I was a teenager my friend and I discovered that my X10 remote
    would operate some of the lights on and in his neighbor's house. We just
    clicked the dial through each frequency pressing the all lights on
    button until something came on. Poor neighbors finally disconnected it.
     
  19. bud--

    bud-- Guest

    Ordinary devices, like receptacles, are only allowed on a 20A circuit
    max. The equipment you plug-in, like your lawn mower, is only intended
    to be plugged into a 20A circuit max. High probability the wire is 15A
    (#14), small probability it is 20A (#20), about zero probabilty it is
    30A (#10). Even if it is 30A wire, the limitations above apply.

    The 30A breaker is a fire hazard.
     
  20. Cameo

    Cameo Guest

    Browsing through the internet I discovered something that indicates that
    I don't even need to worry about cross-phase functionality of HomePlug
    devices if they are the newer AV 200 Mbps variety. There is this FAQ
    item on in the following link:

    Question:In my house are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
    EthernetAdapter connect one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase
    coupling operates without an installation of a phase coupler whileusing
    the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish
    yournetwork connections via two or three phasesQuestion:In my house are
    three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps EthernetAdapter connect
    one phase to another?Answer:Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without
    an installation of a phase coupler whileusing the HomePlug AV 200Mbps
    Ethernet Adapter. You also can establish yournetwork connections via two
    or three phasesQuestion:
    In my house there are three separate phases. Can HomePlug AV 200Mbps
    Ethernet Adapter connect one phase to another?

    Answer:
    Yes, it can. Phase coupling operates without an installation of a phase
    coupler while using the HomePlug AV 200Mbps Ethernet Adapter. You also
    can establish your network connections via two or three phases.

    <ftp://ftp.aztech.com/support/Singapore/HomePlug/HL108E%20HomeplugAV%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf>

    The following white paper explains the reason:

    <http://www.atheros.com/pt/plc/downloads/whitepaper_PLCCrossphase.pdf>

    What do you think?
    Yes, but X-10 remote controls are radio transmitters, so with the chance
    of using the same house code by neighbors, it's relatively easy to
    control their lights. X-10 does not use signal encryption.
     
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