Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Which Metcals are good?

N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
Or vice-versa, which ones to stay away from?

I'm ready to upgrade my R&D lab to a used Metcal. What should I be
looking for and what should I avoid?

Thanks
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Or vice-versa, which ones to stay away from?

I'm ready to upgrade my R&D lab to a used Metcal. What should I be
looking for and what should I avoid?

Thanks
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

I have a couple of MX500s, which are great. I bought a couple of lots
of slightly-used tips (like 90 of them for about $100, vs. $20ish each
new), so I don't have to care if they get discontinued.

The MX-Talon tweezers are quite nice if you have big hands. Otherwise
lots of the smaller Chinese knock-offs are okay.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
All of them? :) Looking for, that is.

My understanding is, if you want to spend money beyond the, say,
Ford/Toyota equivalent level of Weller/Hakko, Metcal is out there
around...Bentley.

So if you just need something to move you around that works well and is
reliable, that's one thing; if you must have those last few percent of
performance, ride and luxury, go for it.

Tim

P.S. How's it going? If you're shopping for a Metcal, it must be going
well :)
 
T

tm

Jan 1, 1970
0
I agree with Tim and the others. Go for the Metcal. It's a whole new
experience with soldering. Also consider the desoldering gun that runs on
compressed air. I use a small $99 compressor tucked away under the bench and
set for about 80 psi into a Y connector. One line to the sucker and the
other a blow off tool.

If you can find one at a good price, look for a dual output power supply or
get two of the older single units.

Regards,
tm
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a couple of MX500s, which are great. I bought a couple of lots
of slightly-used tips (like 90 of them for about $100, vs. $20ish each
new), so I don't have to care if they get discontinued.

Excellent advice. Thanks. I have my partner (I don't do sleazebay)
zooming in on some right now.
The MX-Talon tweezers are quite nice if you have big hands. Otherwise
lots of the smaller Chinese knock-offs are okay.

Unfortunately I have huge hands. I can rarely find a pair of gloves
to fit. So brand name it is.

Thanks,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
My understanding is, if you want to spend money beyond the, say,
Ford/Toyota equivalent level of Weller/Hakko, Metcal is out there
around...Bentley.

I've been working at the Ford level for years. Now I'm ready for a
Bentley ride :)
P.S. How's it going? If you're shopping for a Metcal, it must be going
well :)

Pretty well. The Roy 1500 (induction heater) is selling quite well
considering the amount of advertising we've done (zero). We've about
maxed out our production capacity so we're looking at box builders in
the San Diego area (recommendations welcome).

Had a little setback this summer. About 3 months ago Garett was
diagnosed with a golf ball sized brain tumor in the frontal left
ventricle. They whacked it out about 8 weeks ago. Benign and
attached to the brain with a well defined stem which let them easily
get it all. Garett is now fully recovered and is hitting on all 8
again.

I'm working on the 3kW version of Roy and on a 10kW high frequency
unit, more or less simultaneously so I have my hands full. The Roy
3000 is almost finished so that's good.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
I agree with Tim and the others. Go for the Metcal. It's a whole new
experience with soldering. Also consider the desoldering gun that runs on
compressed air. I use a small $99 compressor tucked away under the bench and
set for about 80 psi into a Y connector. One line to the sucker and the
other a blow off tool.

Funny you'd mention that. A DeWalt construction air compressor is
sitting in the bed of my truck awaiting assembly. :)

Some months back Garett (my partner) picked up a no-name (literally)
ChiCom desoldering pistol with a built-in suction pump. It sucks like
a cheap whore :) I'm sure the Metcal is better but I can't imagine
it being much better. This thing really works.
If you can find one at a good price, look for a dual output power supply or
get two of the older single units.

Dual port it is.

Thanks again for the advice.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
S

stratus46

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you aware of Thermaltronics?

http://thermaltronics.com/replacement_tips.php

They make Metcal compatible systems.

I've bought about 15 Metcals on eBay. 2 were bad but only required replacing the power MOSFET and burned resistor to bring them back to life. The MOSFETs failed because they weren't properly tightened to the heatsink I.E the screws were loose.

A couple of the power supplies were <$20.

We got a 5000 series Metcal at work (made in China) and it's twice the power of the earlier units. Works a treat but it has the Bentley price.

 
I agree with Tim and the others. Go for the Metcal. It's a whole new
experience with soldering. Also consider the desoldering gun that runs on
compressed air. I use a small $99 compressor tucked away under the bench and
set for about 80 psi into a Y connector. One line to the sucker and the
other a blow off tool.

We have the Metcal 5000s at work (and a couple or three Manti, to go
with them).
If you can find one at a good price, look for a dual output power supply or
get two of the older single units.
The issue I have with the duals is that the wrong one is always hot.
We ended up with two duals, fine and tweezers on one, with a thicker
tip and sucker on the other. I still seem to be waiting for the tip
to heat. Fortunately, it doesn't take long (except for the sucker).
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Neon John said:
I've been working at the Ford level for years. Now I'm ready for a
Bentley ride :)

I've been quite happy with Hakko myself; I've used their 'gold standard'
three-position workstation (iron, desolder, hot air; built in air/vacuum
pump) and it's quite nice. The iron heats up very quickly, enough that
you can leave it idling in the cradle and not notice. The FX-888
(competes with the WES[D]-51) isn't as fancy, but does a nice job.

The desoldering tip got fucked over, but I suppose that would happen to
any equipment untrained operators are allowed on.

Used a Metcal once a long time ago; I don't remember it being
extraordinary, but I wasn't doing anything special with it either ('twas a
summer internship :) ). I do recall it had no adjustments, but always
seemed to work alright.
Pretty well. The Roy 1500 (induction heater) is selling quite well
considering the amount of advertising we've done (zero). We've about
maxed out our production capacity so we're looking at box builders in
the San Diego area (recommendations welcome).
Cool!

Had a little setback this summer. About 3 months ago Garett was
diagnosed with a golf ball sized brain tumor in the frontal left
ventricle. They whacked it out about 8 weeks ago. Benign and
attached to the brain with a well defined stem which let them easily
get it all. Garett is now fully recovered and is hitting on all 8
again.

Yikes! Good thing it was benign, not that you want anything else growing
in that kind of location regardless!
I'm working on the 3kW version of Roy and on a 10kW high frequency
unit, more or less simultaneously so I have my hands full. The Roy
3000 is almost finished so that's good.

Cool. Is that improved much, or pretty well the same thing, scaled up? I
forget what all protection circuitry you had in that thing; I do recall
you had programmability (CPLD or FPGA), so it need not be a big change,
which is nice.

I've been idly working on projects myself; the latest is a parallel
port-GPIB hack, since I'm too stubborn to buy a proper dongle (to be fair,
even the Chinese ones are somehow $100). This goes with my scope, which
is old enough to have GPIB only. (Did I mention I got a digital scope?
http://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/GD8.jpg )

Tim
 
J

John Devereux

Jan 1, 1970
0
We have the Metcal 5000s at work (and a couple or three Manti, to go
with them).

The issue I have with the duals is that the wrong one is always hot.
We ended up with two duals, fine and tweezers on one, with a thicker
tip and sucker on the other. I still seem to be waiting for the tip
to heat. Fortunately, it doesn't take long (except for the sucker).

First soldering iron I've had that actually has to boot up.

Next one will probably need an anti-virus scanner.
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Excellent advice. Thanks. I have my partner (I don't do sleazebay)
zooming in on some right now.


Unfortunately I have huge hands. I can rarely find a pair of gloves
to fit. So brand name it is.

Thanks,
John
John DeArmond

Any relation to the prof?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105025837/funny/dearmond.gif

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0

Yep, that be me :) I was working the only corporate job I've ever
had when that cartoon came out. I bet I got 100 copies of that
through interoffice mail. I always meant to write him and ask him
where he came up with the name - after all "DeArmond" isn't exactly
common.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
N

Neon John

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yikes! Good thing it was benign, not that you want anything else growing
in that kind of location regardless!

Yeah, that was a big scare. Garett had developed headaches and some
personality changes. The last message he sent me before going to get
the MRI that his GP ordered was, "wouldn't it be funny if it was a
brain tumor?"
Cool. Is that improved much, or pretty well the same thing, scaled up? I
forget what all protection circuitry you had in that thing; I do recall
you had programmability (CPLD or FPGA), so it need not be a big change,
which is nice.

Not many changes. A customer is paying the NRE so I can't spend too
much time on it. Biggest change is going to parallel FETs instead of
the IGBT. Once I found a differential probe that would recover from
the ~900 volt "off hump" quickly enough to show me the on voltage, I
found out that at 70kHz the IGBT was running about 20 volts of desat.
Drop the frequency to 50kHz and the problem goes away but we need the
high frequency for this job.

I never have figured how to deduce the frequency limit of an IGBT from
the data sheet specs.
I've been idly working on projects myself; the latest is a parallel
port-GPIB hack, since I'm too stubborn to buy a proper dongle (to be fair,
even the Chinese ones are somehow $100). This goes with my scope, which
is old enough to have GPIB only. (Did I mention I got a digital scope?
http://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/GD8.jpg )

Nice. I'm about to buy the 4 channel 100MHz Rigol. I have the 2
channel one now but that's just not enough sometimes.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
 
Top