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Which is the best hobby do-it-yourself method for making PCB's?

P

Paul Burridge

Jan 1, 1970
0
Simplest and cheapest way is copper clad board, ferric chloride,
acetone, metal polish and a permanent, black felt pen.
1. Thoroughly clean the copper cladding with wadding metal polish and
buff-up to high shine.
2. Draw out the tracks where you want them with the felt pen.
3. Allow the ink to dry thoroughly in a warm atmosphere.
4. Heat the ferric chloride solution in a shallow plastic tray to
around 50'C.
5. Drop the board into the solution and agitate until unwanted areas
of copper are dissolved.
6. Remove, wash in warm water, dry.
7. Wash off the black marker traces with acetone and repeat step 1
wrt to the metal polish.
8. After soldering in components, lacquer the board (optional).
 
S

samIam

Jan 1, 1970
0
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
samIam said:
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks
I think I've etched one board, ever. After that experience I just use
breadboards from vector or rat-shack, or I dead-bug things on an
unetched copper groundplane. If I feel a need for an "etched" board I
slice islands out of the copper with an x-acto knife and surface-mount
through-hole components onto the pads (think of dead bugging with pads).

If I really needed accuracy I'd make the circuit on Eagle and send it
out to http://www.pcbexpress.com or another fast-turn house. If you
want to be trapped by proprietary software you could use
http://www.expresspcb.com. Both of these latter methods, incidentally,
work extremely well if you are being paid by the hour -- they can do it
much cheaper than you can unless you're getting starvation wages.

The ARRL Handbook covers all of these methods.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

Buy a batch of double-sided, plated-through boards from AP Circuits or
one of the other cheapie board houses.

John
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
In the past I have been using the toner transfer
iron on technique. The best I have gotten is 75-80%
of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

Wow, that's pretty bad.

When I tried the iron-on method, I had to go back and
fix up a couple of traces but nowhere near 20-30% of em.
Someone hinted at photo transfer

Indeed, direct positive PCB's are preferable. But even then you really
do have to check each and every trace because it's a tricky process.
How about double sided boards?

For the past 5 years I've been using www.expresspcb.com for all my
stuff and had 100% success for single and double-sided stuff.
Single-sided, double-sided, ridiculously high lead pitch surface mount
stuff, I ain't ever gonna go back to etching this stuff myself.

Tim.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello John,
Buy a batch of double-sided, plated-through boards from AP Circuits or
one of the other cheapie board houses.

You can etch stuff yourself (I did as a kid) with 100% success rate but
not plate through. I made some really fine pitch 'circuit board
transformers' that way since the commercial ones cost way too much.

An additional issue with that is what to do with all the chemicals
afterwards. Some people store that forever and then one day the
container rusts out or the cat knocks it over.

Regards, Joerg
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
In the past I have been using the toner transfer
Wow, that's pretty bad.
Tim Shoppa
Amen.
Between each stage of the process is a step called INSPECTION.
Obviously, the OP is skipping this.

The first responder (Burridge) mentioned a pen.
When I did it, I used fingernail polish for touch-ups
and cleaned the board with acetone at the end.
..
..
For the past 5 years I've been using www.expresspcb.com...
I ain't ever gonna go back to etching this stuff myself.
Yeah.
If this is just for the hands-on experience, that's one thing.
Not handing this off to the pros as early as possible
is just nuts these days.
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
samIam said:
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks


You should be able to do *much* better using the iron on method,
per the following url:
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Ed
 
W

Walter Harley

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
[...]
Buy a batch of double-sided, plated-through boards from AP Circuits or
one of the other cheapie board houses.

I've been using AP Circuits for my manufacturing (quantities ~100), but for
one-offs they're pretty pricey. If I know I need just one of something, I
generally use Olimex instead. Olimex's quality is not quite as nice but the
price is a tiny fraction. (Unfortunately, they have different standard
drill racks and different minimum trace sizes, so it's inefficient to proto
with Olimex and then manufacture with AP.)
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
[...]
Buy a batch of double-sided, plated-through boards from AP Circuits or
one of the other cheapie board houses.

I've been using AP Circuits for my manufacturing (quantities ~100), but for
one-offs they're pretty pricey. If I know I need just one of something, I
generally use Olimex instead. Olimex's quality is not quite as nice but the
price is a tiny fraction. (Unfortunately, they have different standard
drill racks and different minimum trace sizes, so it's inefficient to proto
with Olimex and then manufacture with AP.)

AP's "proto one" service gets you 4 to 6 small boards for something
like $60, as I recall. No solder mask or silk, only sheared to size,
but that's just like doing it at home. I've done dozens of different
boards, 8/8 design rules, and they've been perfect so far.

What's Olimex's minimum lot charge for a 2-side plated board?

John
 
W

Walter Harley

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
[...]
AP's "proto one" service gets you 4 to 6 small boards for something
like $60, as I recall. No solder mask or silk, only sheared to size,
but that's just like doing it at home. I've done dozens of different
boards, 8/8 design rules, and they've been perfect so far.

What's Olimex's minimum lot charge for a 2-side plated board?


Doh! My mistake. My production vendor is Advanced Circuits, not AP
Circuits. Yes, I see that AP Circuits advertises "Two 2-layer PCBs for
under $50.00" (for a 1.5" x 1.5" board, their minimum size); a good deal.

Olimex's deal is that you get one 100mm x 160mm board for about $40 (full
featured: double-sided, silk-screen, solder mask, plated-through holes),
including shipping. The nice thing is, if your design is smaller, they'll
panelize and cut for free - so for instance, I recently got 25 very small
boards for $40. However, it takes a couple of weeks to get the PCB (in the
USA, anyhow), because it ships air mail from Bulgaria. You can pay (a lot)
more for faster shipping.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin said:
[...]
AP's "proto one" service gets you 4 to 6 small boards for something
like $60, as I recall. No solder mask or silk, only sheared to size,
but that's just like doing it at home. I've done dozens of different
boards, 8/8 design rules, and they've been perfect so far.

What's Olimex's minimum lot charge for a 2-side plated board?


Doh! My mistake. My production vendor is Advanced Circuits, not AP
Circuits. Yes, I see that AP Circuits advertises "Two 2-layer PCBs for
under $50.00" (for a 1.5" x 1.5" board, their minimum size); a good deal.

Olimex's deal is that you get one 100mm x 160mm board for about $40 (full
featured: double-sided, silk-screen, solder mask, plated-through holes),
including shipping. The nice thing is, if your design is smaller, they'll
panelize and cut for free - so for instance, I recently got 25 very small
boards for $40. However, it takes a couple of weeks to get the PCB (in the
USA, anyhow), because it ships air mail from Bulgaria. You can pay (a lot)
more for faster shipping.


Well, the AP Circuits boards are shipped from some weird foreign
country, too. They ship by pack moose, I think.

John
 
E

Erik Walthinsen

Jan 1, 1970
0
samIam said:
What has worked for you guys in the past?
I've been using Pulsar film, available from Digikey (182-1003-ND and
182-1021-ND) to do a dozen or so boards so far, including some
fine-pitch SMT designs, though all single-sided.

The process is fairly straightforward, but has taken me a lot of
experimentation and frustration to get it right. As a result I'm going
to write up what I've learned one of these days soon, so others don't
have to figure the same stuff out the hard way. Here's the quick
version, off the top of my head, with as much detail as I can in this
format:

0) Design your board carefully, according to a number of rules that I
still need to codify. Some easy ones: use copper pours wherever
possible to remove less copper; make sure you set your trace/gap numbers
to a comfortable level, I haven't gone below 10mil/10mil yet though I
easily could; set the pad annulus to 15+mil so you have some drilling
slop; don't let the copper pour or other traces get too close to the
*inside* of any SMT chip pads, you can't wick that stuff away.

1) *Laser* print the *positive* artwork onto the transfer paper, cut to
size and taped (Avery laser label bits) to a piece of backing paper
(both to feed into the laser, and for positioning).

2) Thoroughly rough up (Scotchbrite pad / steel wool) every sq. mm of
the board, then wash very carefully, possibly using acetone as the last
step (to remove oils *and* copper dust). Do not touch the copper after
this step.

3) Laminate/iron the artwork to the board. Pulsar resells a GBC
laminator that has both high heat and pressure, and will accept up to
0.03125" boards (not 0.0625", big deal, IMO) for ~$50.

4) Dump the board paper-side up onto the *surface* of a bowl of water
and wait (tick tock) for the paper to literally fall off (takes longer,
but much more consistent results, don't rush this step).

5) Carefully wash everything off the toner surface, and make sure there
are no oils left either.

INSPECTION: if there are any missing areas, clean the copper off with
acetone, go all the way back to step 2 and start over. DO NOT SKIP ANY
OF STEP 2, do it all over again.

6) Laminate/iron the green film onto the board, let cool, and carefully
peel back the plastic.

INSPECTION: if the film wrinkled and left visible toner on the board, or
if any toner is visible on the peeled off plastic, go back to step 2 and
start over, as per previous inspection step.

7) Grab some gloves, a sponge (combo glove+sponge works great for me),
and a few ounces of FeCl or equivalent. Get some FeCl on the tip of the
sponge, and lightly *scrub* the board all over until you can see all the
way through the copper-free areas when held against a light.

8) Thoroughly clean the film and toner off with acetone, scrub it down
with steel wool, and clean it again. Cleaning is your friend.

9) Dump the board in some Liquid Tin (MG Chemicals 421-500ml) for
5-10min. When removing the board from the liquid tin, do not touch the
copper+tin surface until you've washed it off and let it sit for a
minute. I kept getting fingerprints on the tin and finally realized it
came from *above*, not underneath the plating. The stuff is soft. It's
also extremely nasty stuff, you *MUST* take even small amounts to a
disposal site. MG says even 50ml diluted into 5 gallons of water is too
nasty to dump down the drain. You can use extremely fine-grade steel
wool, *very* lightly, to clean up the surface a little bit, but as soon
as it shows a little copper tint to it, you're done. Very nice color
effect though.

10) Use appropriate drill bits, such as the re-ground ones you can get
cheap in sets of 25. Only problem is that there no guarantee of size
selection with those. This would be a good time to thank yourself for
cranking up the pad annulus and leaving yourself some room to mess up.

11) SMT components can be soldered by hand, but I've had far better luck
using solder paste and a toaster oven. Digikey has it (KE1507-ND) but
as a rather high price ($42 for 35g), and you'll need to find a syringe
tip to use, the smaller the better. I'm still getting a feel for
exactly how much paste to use for different parts, and the
time/temperature constant of my toaster oven is abysmal, so the process
is still evolving, but it's worked fairly well so far.

I've taken a few closeup pics of some of my most recent boards, both
good and bad:

http://www.omegacs.net/misc/pcbs/

It's not in a decent gallery because the software I was using didn't put
up with an upgrade and I haven't figured out what's broken about it yet.
How about double sided boards?
I haven't done any yet, but I plan on doing some attempts eventually.
The process would be to put the toner and film on one side, drill 3+
reference holes, then transfer the other side. The problem may be what
the laminator will do to the first side when going through the second
time. It may be necessary to use even more extra dimensions on the PCB
and transfer films and carefully tack the two pieces of transfer paper
down through the drilling process, and laminate the two sides at the
same time.

The through-hole plating problem is another one I need to research.
Pulsar recommended going to International Eyelets (ask for a catalog,
you get it within a few days) who make nothing but "PCB eyelets"
designed to do through-holes. They're going to be noticably bigger than
your average via, but comparable to a normal through-hole component pad.
Absolute smallest one their catalog shows a 0.030" hole diameter,
0.020" finished hole, with a 0.046" flange/pad. That's actually not too
bad. I'm going to get some trail stuff pretty soon and see what happens.
 
S

Simon Peacock

Jan 1, 1970
0
One thing to note when making your own PCB's.. be careful not to mix
chemicals.. some cleaners can react with the chemicals used to produce some
rather hasty gasses... A friend of mine spent two nights in hospital doing
this.

I think the best bet is to use a proto house.. if they can do a panel it can
be cheap... for me it was AU $270 for 3 x A4 worth of PCB's .. as much as
you can fit on a single A4 sheet and 3 of them. No fuss, no mess, no
chemicals or EPA requirements.

Simon
 
D

Deefoo

Jan 1, 1970
0
samIam said:
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

I still make some myself the classic photographic way, 100% success, takes
me about 15 minutes with fresh, well heated etching liquid (the dirty yellow
one). There are many good tutorials to be found on the web. The hardest
part, I find, is cutting the board and drilling the holes in the right
place.

When I was a kid I used to use an etch-resistant ink pen (and a nail and
hamer for the holes, in fact I did the holes first) but fine-pitched boards
are not easy this way. I remember routing traces in between ic pins (I then
had a small electric drill). The pen was rather annoying since you had to
press the tip to get the ink out and often this resulted is large blobs on
the board.

--DF
 
M

Mike Harrison

Jan 1, 1970
0
I still make some myself the classic photographic way, 100% success, takes
me about 15 minutes with fresh, well heated etching liquid (the dirty yellow
one). There are many good tutorials to be found on the web. The hardest
part, I find, is cutting the board
Small guillotine
and drilling the holes in the right
place.

Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Lots of info on making good homebrew pcbs : www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Walter said:
[...]
Buy a batch of double-sided, plated-through boards from AP Circuits or
one of the other cheapie board houses.


I've been using AP Circuits for my manufacturing (quantities ~100), but for
one-offs they're pretty pricey. If I know I need just one of something, I
generally use Olimex instead. Olimex's quality is not quite as nice but the
price is a tiny fraction. (Unfortunately, they have different standard
drill racks and different minimum trace sizes, so it's inefficient to proto
with Olimex and then manufacture with AP.)

I am not a hobbiest, but I do lots of small (prototype) runs of PCB's.

I was using Olimex for a while, but they are no longer on my list of
approved vendors. I got 3 runs of different boards in a row that had hair
line breaks in traces. When I went to them for some resolution (to a problem
of their making), their solution was for me to ship the bad boards back to them,
and they would ship me some new boards... with me paying international shipping
all 3 ways, and them waiting for the bad boards to arrive before starting the
run of replacement boards. Since I use courier shipping to speed things up
a bit, that would be $180 in shipping costs, and 3 weeks worth of time.

Other problems with Olimex are: their nonstandard tool rack (you have to figure
drill sizes to be the preplating size); wide variability of hole plating
thickness; holes that were clogged with copper plated fiberglass swarf;
misalignment of drill holes and pads; panelized boards that are sheared, so they
have rough fiberglass edges; use of the copper board outline to gage their
shearing, leaving 1/2 of the copper outline as part of the board, so your boards
are always oversized, and have a conductive trace around the outside edges;
minimum trace size of 8 mil, (if you try to use 8 mil traces, you will find
them sometimes as small as 5 mil in size); and frequent overetching of the
board. Plus, they will only stock 1 oz, 1/16th inch, FR4. If you need something
else, tough!

I am done with foreign suppliers! But I am still looking for a good domestic
supplier. I sure wish ProtoCircuits was still in town. Their leaving
started me on this odyssey of pain.

-Chuck
 
A

Andy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Andy comments:

I used fingernail polish as etch resist for small jobs that didn't
need fine work and it worked great. It can be removed with
nail polish remover. I never tried etch resist pens because
I didn't trust them.....

On the ground plane side, I needed to clear the areas around
the holes and I used a drill bit with some tape around the shank
which I rotated by hand to clear it out. The drill bit would center
easily in the hole and had a diameter larger than the clearance I
wanted so that I could stop when it was right.....

This works great, as long as one doesn't need tiny tracks....

Andy

PS I prefer Ferric Chloride for etching. I never was happy with
Ammonium Perchloride (or whatever the other stuff was ).
Keep the solution warm, and jiggle the board occasionally with
the side to be etched facing down......
 
C

Chuck Harris

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mike said:
Small guillotine




Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Nah, tell the PCB software to leave the holes out of the pads, and then
when you etch, you will leave behind a nice little hole in the copper
pad where your drill bit goes. It makes drilling a snap.

-Chuck
 
M

Mike Harrison

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nah, tell the PCB software to leave the holes out of the pads, and then
when you etch, you will leave behind a nice little hole in the copper
pad where your drill bit goes.

-Chuck

...erm that's exactly what I was saying.... you NEED holes in the pads to be able to drill them
sensibly
 
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