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Where are the manufacturers?

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by PauI :, Aug 29, 2003.

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  1. PauI  :

    PauI : Guest

    If i'm wrong to say that wireless alarm systems are junk and
    unreliable during Radio Frequency Interference (RFI), where remains
    manufacturers support to show the opposite with spec's and arguments?

    Paul
     
  2. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    I'm sure they'll get around to answering you when the can figure out how to
    word their response you so can understand it...

    In the interim, I'd suggest some remedial language courses, but the way you
    continue to butcher the Queen's English I'm certain any attempt you make at
    enrolling in one will result in your attending a camel riding class in
    Libya. Say "hi" to Muammar for us. His address and telephone number (by
    the way) are:

    Muammar al-Ghadaffi
    Tel.: 81888 / 80999

    Quaid an-Nasr waat-Tahaddi
    Barid Sharia al-Zawia
    Tarabulus - LIBYA

    Sorry... I don't have an email...
     
  3. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Paul,
    Let's sum this wireless issue up for you, so you can get on with your
    life. Early stages of wireless technology was junk. It was analog, and
    typically transmitted on one frequency, which more often than not, was
    susceptable to interference from any device transmitting the same frequency,
    such as light fixtures, motors, cordless phones, etc., etc., and was
    completely un-supervised. In todays world these frequencies are much higher
    on the Mhz, and even Ghz scale, but now more importantly are digital, and
    feature "frequency hopping" technology. An easy example to understand is
    basically, although not completey, is how cellular phones work today. These
    are wireless devices, at least in the US. Just like a cell phone, wirless
    transmitters have coded ID's which identify them on a network. Just like
    cell phones, control panels, when programmed correctly, poll for these
    devices, and ensure their communication and supervision. In the US the FCC
    (Federal Communication Commission regulates, and mandates to manuafactures
    that their electronic devices must not interfere with other electronic
    devices, and then, UL (Underwriters Laboritories) tests and approves these
    products as safe for use to consumers. But then again, just as with any
    electronic device, these devices can fail to perform as expected. But that
    doesn't make them any less reliable. Some alarm dealers use wireless devices
    to keep their service department busy changing batteries, but most use
    wireless devices when there are few alternatives, k.

    Jack,
     
  4. PauI  :

    PauI : Guest

    Thanks Jack for your informative input.
    I have however some questions (lookup in line of your post)..

    Analog:
    Analog has ID code (no rolling code) and uses the same 433 MHz
    frequency spectrum as the actual equipments.
    Why are they junk???
    Remark:
    Only a few actual systems uses "limited spectrum" frequency hopping.

    Frequencies:
    - To my knowledge, the 433.92MHz frequency is still used by numerous,
    if not most, wireless alarm equipments.
    - The higher frequency on the MHz scale, do you mean the 869.225MHz
    frequency?
    What are in your opinion the advantages to use higher frequencies
    except the fact that they are "at the moment" less crowded but on
    the other side have a drawback about sensor location and sensor
    distance reception range?
    - Can you tell what GHz frequency range is used actually and by who?
    Please provide regulatory (FCC or equivalent) references to that
    allowed frequency utilization for wireless alarm systems!
    Sorry, i don't follow you there.
    - I thought that cell phones where by-directional communication
    devises having controlled RF power (up to 2watt) and using wide
    frequency spectrum arbitration with multiple receiver points
    (at least 3 required for position location)..

    opposed to

    - wireless alarm systems who are mono-directional (only from sensor to
    control panel) without frequency arbitration.

    Can you state "how and why" you can make a parallel between both
    systems?
    To clarify
    (IEC for region 3 (US and +), CENELEC for region 1 (Europe):
    (IEC 61000-6-3 or CENELEC EN 50081-1 Emission)
    (IEC 61000-6-1 or CENELEC EN 50082-1 Immunity (NO RFI protection)
    or do you think on other certifications specifically?
    I never mentioned failures as a reason for un-reliability.
    I mention only the RFI (Radio frequency Interference and consort)
    problem as the cause of un)reliability.
    That's you opinion Jack, i don't support your statement here..

    Paul
     
  5. PauI  :

    PauI : Guest

    Jim,
    Why should I contact manufacturers when you can't tell us anything
    against my unreliability statement about wireless alarm system during
    RFI?
    I don't sell that junk alarm equipment.
    Show manufacturer spec's about the wireless data loop performances
    who show that they are gOOOOd.. It will allow new readers, owners or
    future owners the truth based on manufacturer "original data spec's".
    WHY do manufacturers hide such valid argumentation data when theyre
    equipments are so gOOOOd as you attempt to let believe without data?

    Paul
     
  6. Petem

    Petem Guest

    Paul can you show us the unreliability of the product we install??

    no cause you never worked with those type of product

    so you have no base for you statement
     
  7. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Paul,
    I really wasn't looking for your support. What exactly is your point?
    Instead of bitching and complaining about how shitty wireless is, I would
    advise either A. Use don't use or B. Investigate by yourself the crap in
    which you believe to be true. Not all wireless devices transmit on the 433
    Mhz, frequencies. Chances are, you will not find this "Mystery" RFI report,
    because there are none. There are however guidelines and precautions to
    adhere to. How is it the Manufacturers responsibility for how, and where the
    devices are installed? For some reason you attribute RFI to only wireless
    devices, when in fact RFI effects ALL electronic equipment, not just
    wireless, and not with more or less interference. I think the issue is that
    you need to learn how to effectively, and correctly install these electronic
    devices. Wired devices are just as susceptible to RFI, as wireless. That my
    friend is a FACT.

    Jack,
    answers....below

    Wrong, a majority of manufacturers in the security industry use this.
    Inovonic's is just one.
    433 is used by tons of manufacturers, however very little by the security
    industry.
    Go to the FCC's web site, all this information is available, as well as on
    UL's web site.
    They are, but you stopped short of understanding how. Power pushes
    (increases the distances) of these signals.These ID's are searched for over
    thousands of times, in mille-seconds, and only one position is required,
    location is confirmed digitally in mille-seconds before the call arrives.
    Your thought is that the polling device actually places a call, says "hold
    on please, now that we found you, you have a call coming in..."
    The FCC in the US dictates, and regulates electronic transmission equipment
    here. They have consumers, not manufactures or research firms in mind.
    Things that are un-reliable, in my book, would constitute failure.

    This is in relation to dealers who are more concerned with the RMR, paying a
    sub-contractor $60.00 for an install, and often start with the letter "A"
    These systems usually are "Aways Done Twice"
     
  8. PauI  :

    PauI : Guest

    Stupid kid level reply as usual.
    I don't sell wireless alarm equipment and pretend they are reliable..

    Petem, you are a low level electrician, and nothing can help unless
    you upgrade your knowledge and behave like an adult.

    Paul
     
  9. Petem

    Petem Guest

    Paul I prefer to be considered as a low level electrician (witch I am not )
    then being a low level spammer like you...

    you cant even answer this simple question:
    what would be the value in ohms of the inductive reactance of a coil of 0.5
    Henry at 433 MHz...
    you cant even answer that!! and you are able to understand all the
    technologies behind wireless security system..WOW

    wake up and smell the coffee man and go get a life...(witch is pretty
    difficult for a you)
     
  10. PauI  :

    PauI : Guest

    No i can't, i have the AARL and RSGB handbooks but i'm unable to find
    the answer in it, i'm to stupid like you poor guy.
    Satisfied now? Last call for bear.

    Paul
     
  11. Petem

    Petem Guest

    so why don't you just calculate it if you have those books?
    cant understand?
     
  12. Petem

    Petem Guest

    One other thing if your so good about rf design why don't you know the
    formula by heart?
    I do,and I am a low level electrician

    I bet that you have no damn idea what I am talking about and count find it
    in the book(if you really have that book)
    what edition do you have?
     
  13. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I would say that sums it up!
    Jack

     
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