What Protection Does A License Provide?

[Aegis]

In the grand scheme of things, yes, that alarm license should indicate
something of an expertise. But, as we all know, because license standards vary
from zip/nada/nothing to near NICET standards; from showing a library card all
the way to a full national background check. Alarm techs can be selling vacums
today and installing alarms tommorrow. The real estate industry is miles and
miles ahead in the way they operate.

You might be surprised. The only change I know about is they use computers
instead of index cards these days, and, if a member of The National
Association of Realtors, a shared database (between competitors) is used.

Real estate standards are fairly level
state to state with mandatory minimum standards. The real estate industry is
viewed more of a paraprofessional whereas an alarm tech is generally viewed no
different from a washing machine repairman. Unfortunately, I don't see much
changing anytime in the next few decades. The real estate industry is always
looking at additional skills and training, and always working to improve,
heighten, and expand their license. On the other hand, the alarm industry,
well given the chance they would roll back all regulations and licensing
standards if they could.

Rob-

We in the real estate industry would LOVE to roll back MANY of the
regulations. We have 10 times as much weighing us down than the alarm
industry (except fire... then we have roughly twice as much, I'd guess).

The ONLY reason the alarm industry hasn't been hit with the lawsuits which
FORCED us to our current state is the money involved. Get sued for messing
up a $200,000 transaction and you'll know what I mean. Who is going to sue
over a $5,000-$10,000 security contract dispute? And, more importantly, what
affect would it have on the industry as a whole. Everytime a new , not seen
before, suit comes in to the real estate industry, depending on the outcome
of the case, the ENTIRE industry changes.

Ask me who I like for home inspections... I can't tell you... I can give you
a list of at least three and I can't recommend one over the other. Ask me if
the house I'm showing you has to pay city taxes... Well it doesn't RIGHT
NOW, but can I guarantee it won't EVER be annexed. How is crime in the area?
I can't legally answer that question, but I can refer you to the police
blotter website.

I swear, the only people who get sued more than real estate agents, are
probably doctors.

And, again, the ONLY reason this hasn't happened to the alarm industry is
the money involved (and the emotions involved as well... buying a home is
usually a very emotional event compared to buying an alarm system).

 

[Frank Olson]

Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors.

Security is so diverse, anyone would be hard
pressed to believe anyone that just blankly
professed to be a "security expert"...

That is certainly true. We've seen lots of evidence of that right here.
For example, one fellow we know is a sales clerk in a small distributor in
Canada, yet he claims expertise in fire and burglar alarms, aviation, ladder
levitation [inside joke], etc. :^)

Uh-huh... and another fellow we all know that runs an online store in
Florida that feigns expertise in fire and burglar alarms, NEC, aviation, and
has "first hand" experience playing "drop the soap" [a real "inside" joke],
etc. :^)

You've yet to say what "small distributor" I work for... Go ahead, Bobby...
tell us...

... Guys like the MM can get a license
without ever having had any formal training or apprenticeship.

Which brings up the question of *your* apprenticeship... Let's see...
You'd have us all believe that you started your own central station alarm
company in 1979 *with absolutely no experience* and hired a licensed tech to
"teach you"... Like wow, Robert... I'll bet you got most of your "tools"
from a "Cracker Jack" (TM) box too...

Yep. Every year I attend numerous seminars at trade shows and expos.

You mean the free seminars?? With canapes and wine?? OoooOOooooOOOo!!

I study every tech manual I can lay my hands on and keep up with
various trade journals.

Hmmm.... You obviously missed "studying" the manual on the Visonic
PowerMax... And then there's the post where you stated *every* residential
burg system employs an entry delay... My, my... For the "27 years" you
*claim* to have "in the trade", you certainly didn't install/study much, did
you??

I buy samples of new systems and work with them on my test bench.

Uh-huh... Like the free sample video switcher you begged off of a
manufacturer and then promptly donated to a Fire Fighter's museum for a
$150.00 US tax credit??

I've spent over 27 years in this trade and I'm still learning new things.

1999 less 1983 is 16 years. These numbers actually equal the period you
were in fact *licensed* or *in the trade*. I doubt you did many installs
though seeing as how you've been shilling for your online store since 1996
and were "running the modestly successful central station alarm company" you
say you owned (or was everything in the wife's name?).

Anyone who stops learning may as well quit.

You'd better quit while you're ahead then...

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

 

[Mark Leuck]

Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors.

How can you possibly be competitors when you sell alarm parts on the
internet and he owns an alarm company?

 

[petem]

Great.. I am in repentigny..

but you dont live there any more...?

 

[Frank Olson]

I never said the license makes you an expert. I said the LAW will likely
find that since you have a license you are an expert AS COMPARED to the
general public (i.e. the uninformed, or ignorant even, consumer).

I didn't mean to infer that you did. I've seen Lawyers cut so called
"experts" to shreds in a courtroom. The only thing they manage to prove by
doing so is that there are *no* experts and worse they set an example that
makes anyone willing to testify as an "expert witness" have "second
thoughts". There's a couple of old Perry Mason episodes that illustrate
this technique perfectly. And don't forget "OJ".

The cretin in Sarasota would have you believe that he's an "expert" and goes
to extraordinary lengths to try and convince the "newbie" that he is (even
to the point of outright *lying*). What's really ludicrous is that he then
has the temerity to demand others not post mis-information. Go figure!!

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

 

[Norm Mugford]

Mr. Bass wrote:

"Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors."

Another lie Mr. Bass. We are not competitors.
I, as a licensed contractor sell, install, service and monitor my customers.

You just sell pieces & parts to DIY'ers. An on line Radio Shack of sorts.
And not a very good one at that according to the posts on this NG.
There are others on this NG that do a much better business from the posts I
read.
(Unless of course you consider yourself a competitor because you sell,
install, service or monitor your own customers, as a convicted felon,
without being properly licensed or with the proper insurance coverage's)

Norm Mugford

Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors.

Security is so diverse, anyone would be hard
pressed to believe anyone that just blankly
professed to be a "security expert"...

That is certainly true. We've seen lots of evidence of that right here.
For example, one fellow we know is a sales clerk in a small distributor in
Canada, yet he claims expertise in fire and burglar alarms, aviation, ladder
levitation [inside joke], etc. :^)

I can believe that someone could claim to be
a security expert in his/her particular field of
security and a license is a good piece of
evidence that they are on their way to be an
expert.

Agreed. If the particular aspect of security in which the person is
involved requires a license, having one sometimes indicates that one knows
something about the trade. In some states it only means they paid a fee.
In some places it just means they were working before the law took effect
and they've been "grandfathered" in. Guys like the MM can get a license
without ever having had any formal training or apprenticeship.

This along with alot of education, both in the
field and in the class room will get you there as
long as you continuously apply all of your new
found knowledge. Keeping up with it is also
mandatory...

Yep. Every year I attend numerous seminars at trade shows and expos. I
study every tech manual I can lay my hands on and keep up with various trade
journals. I buy samples of new systems and work with them on my test bench.
I've spent over 27 years in this trade and I'm still learning new things.
Anyone who stops learning may as well quit.

Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm

Regards,
Robert

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Aegis]

If you compete on any level and in the same market (i.e. internet), doesn't
the "[public] making of disparaging comments about competitors" from US
Federal Antitrust laws apply?

Mr. Bass wrote:

"Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors."

Another lie Mr. Bass. We are not competitors.
I, as a licensed contractor sell, install, service and monitor my customers.

You just sell pieces & parts to DIY'ers. An on line Radio Shack of sorts.
And not a very good one at that according to the posts on this NG.
There are others on this NG that do a much better business from the posts I
read.
(Unless of course you consider yourself a competitor because you sell,
install, service or monitor your own customers, as a convicted felon,
without being properly licensed or with the proper insurance coverage's)

Norm Mugford

Note that Mr. Mugford is a political hack who owns a small alarm company in
Florida. We are competitors.

Security is so diverse, anyone would be hard
pressed to believe anyone that just blankly
professed to be a "security expert"...

That is certainly true. We've seen lots of evidence of that right here.
For example, one fellow we know is a sales clerk in a small distributor in
Canada, yet he claims expertise in fire and burglar alarms, aviation, ladder
levitation [inside joke], etc. :^)

I can believe that someone could claim to be
a security expert in his/her particular field of
security and a license is a good piece of
evidence that they are on their way to be an
expert.

Agreed. If the particular aspect of security in which the person is
involved requires a license, having one sometimes indicates that one knows
something about the trade. In some states it only means they paid a fee.
In some places it just means they were working before the law took effect
and they've been "grandfathered" in. Guys like the MM can get a license
without ever having had any formal training or apprenticeship.

This along with alot of education, both in the
field and in the class room will get you there as
long as you continuously apply all of your new
found knowledge. Keeping up with it is also
mandatory...

Yep. Every year I attend numerous seminars at trade shows and expos. I
study every tech manual I can lay my hands on and keep up with various trade
journals. I buy samples of new systems and work with them on my test bench.
I've spent over 27 years in this trade and I'm still learning new things.
Anyone who stops learning may as well quit.

Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm

Regards,
Robert

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[mezrac]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo
Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee
Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo
Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee
Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee
Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee
Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo
Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee
Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee
Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo
Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee
Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee
Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha

 

[RH.Campbell]

I've seen a new wrinkle coming up recently among some of the local Ottawa
based alarm companies. In the "drag em' down" fight to gain market share,
some companies are now suggesting to customers that they check to make sure
their alarm installer / company is "ULC approved", and further suggesting
that they are "approved", and you should only deal with companies that are !

First off, most professional equipment available today is UL approved. Some
is not Canadian ULC approved simply because ULC is too damn expensive and
far too slow to react to requests for approval. Secondly, there may well be
"ULC approved installations" but you can bet your bottom dollar they aren't
ever seen in residential installs. Banks maybe, but the added complexity
would be useless in a home.

It seems to me, these guys are just feeding the shopping consumer another
crock of sh*t! I may be wrong on, this and if I am, someone set me straight.
But is seems to me these companies are simply blowing smoke up the consumers
butt !!

RHC