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What Are These Parts Called- Where Can I Get Them?

Discussion in 'Datasheets, Manuals and Component Identification' started by Ronzed, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
  2. dorke

    dorke

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    Jun 20, 2015
    Welcome to EP.

    They are called terminal Blocks.
    Used for connecting wires.

    The last ones could be ( 3 phase?) circuit barkers or relays.

    A store selling Electricians gear will have them.
     
    Ronzed likes this.
  3. Minder

    Minder

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    There are several terminal strip manuf, the common now is to use DIN rail type as they come in all configurations and can be bridged with a copper strip to make them commons etc.
    The 4 pole relays are control relays as opposed to contactors, but contactors can be subbed if needed, but you would need the 4 terminal type, I like the Telemecanique line for preference.
    If they are used in general relay logic instead of all carrying a significant load, you could possibly replace them with the smaller plug in ICE cube style.
    None of them should be hard to source, as per dorke, most local electrical supply merchants sell them.
    M.
     
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  4. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    Aug 11, 2014
    They are old obsolete terminal strips.
    You could replace them with similar such as AllanBradley 1492ca47, or retrofit newer style 1492-w3 dinrail mount terminals.
    Besides the terminals you will need "end Barriers" (insulator) and "end anchors" that keep them from sliding.

    The relays are old tellemechanique contactors. They are 3phase with a normally open contact. Probably want to change to IEC style contactors but use caution because amperage ratings are not compatible with old JIC standards. See NFPA79 for clarification.
     
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  5. Minder

    Minder

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    The fact they are marked CR1/2 etc I am guessing they may be used for control, I have replaced cabinets full of these for systems converted to PLC control etc.
    Determine the final device they are switching, it may be possible to down size them.
    I am surprised the absence of wire markers at the termination points, usually this is a must to aid in trouble shooting.
    M.
     
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  6. kellys_eye

    kellys_eye

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    Ronzed likes this.
  7. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
    Wow, all of you guys are freaking awesome! I really appreciate your help! Yeah, it's an old system that is 30+ years old and we are trying to update/rebuild the panels... So many responses in such a short time, you guys are really awesome! @dorke @Minder @Tha fios agaibh @kellys_eye Thank you!
     
  8. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Jun 21, 2012
    Are you trying to rebuild an existing panel, or build a new one just like the one you show in photos? The control panel wiring shown in your photos appears to be in good condition, so why is there a need to rebuild it?

    Do you have a wiring diagram, or a ladder-logic diagram, of the existing control panel to work from? Do you have a wire list identifying each wire on the control panel by insulation color and wire gauge and where each end of each wire is connected? Every wire in the control panel should have its own unique number, ideally identified by a marker wrapped around the wire, but some of your wires are bundled in groups with the group identified by a number. Even this is not consistent because in your photo 4.jpg several bundles have the same number.

    You need to build a wire list before you even think about rebuilding this panel. You do this by first disconnecting the end of ONE wire, then probing around with a continuity tester to find the other end. When you think you have found the other end, disconnect that end too and verify there is continuity between the two ends of the SAME wire. If there is no continuity, you have a "sneak" path and must continue probing to find the other end of the wire. Number each wire you find in numerical sequence and identify the location each end is connected to.

    From the size and number of wires in your photos, it will take several weeks to build a wire list. It is very important that you perform that task with perfect accuracy. It is not strictly necessary that each wire be physically identified with its wire number, although this does make troubleshooting much easier. What is absolutely necessary is that you uniquely identify each wire and the terminal where each end of that wire is connected.

    Since you do not seem to recognize common barrier terminal strips, or industrial control relays, why do you think you are in any way qualified to rebuild (or build) this panel? What are the consequences of failure to complete your mission correctly?

    It's good that you recognize the need for help and have sought advice here, but I think you may need some "hands on" guidance at your location too. Panel building is a rather specialized trade and often boring, monotonous work requiring extreme attention to detail. Most of the time, the wiring harness is pre-built on a nail-board and then removed from the nail-board after the wires are laced up or tie-wrapped. When done correctly, this practice virtually eliminates wiring errors, especially when individual wires are color-coded AND numbered. You should probably contact a machine builder in your area for a quote on rebuilding your panel. Find out what they need to issue a firm-fixed-price quotation and then gather that information. At the very least the information you gather will prepare you to make your own panel, whether you accept the machine builder's quote or not.

    Good luck, @Ronzed.
     
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  9. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
    I promise you that I will not be touching this build in any way! Ha Ha, I am not qualified, I have merely been asked to put together a parts list/quote for pricing of a complete rebuild. I've already identified and quoted knobs, buttons, relays, wiring, fuses, connectors, switches, (designed a circuit board and priced components), etc. I just needed help identifying those other parts I haven't done yet (because I've asked a few different people in person and I have gotten a few different answers). So, I appreciate your concern and I agree completely! I am not qualified at all and I will not be the one doing any of this work (although I might watch and try to learn a thing or two!)
     
  10. Minder

    Minder

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    Another aid to panel building that makes it neat is plastic duct, such as Panduct, available in different sizes, also in many cases where just relay control logic is required, not only can the control relays be of a smaller footprint, IEC etc, but the wire does not necessarily need to be #14 MTW etc, I use TR64 for compact harnesses.
    Also another change is in control voltage from the old 120vac to 24v, preferably DC. Many indicator light on P.B. etc are LED now.
    As mentioned, NFPA79 is a good guide and informs on practices and recommended conductor colours etc.
    M.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  11. Minder

    Minder

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  12. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
  13. Minder

    Minder

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    Sure helps making trouble shooting alot easier!
    M.
     
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  14. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    Could be,
    but the fact that black wire is used tells us it's high voltage (usually not controls).
    Yes, they didn't properly label wires.
     
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  15. Minder

    Minder

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    Yes that's the neat way do do it, However they MAY have made a Faux pas,
    I see Orange and Yellow conductors.
    For N.A., yellow Used to signify a live conductor that originates in another enclosure or source and therefore may be live, since changed to comply with the EU standard from yellow to Orange!
    M.
     
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  16. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
    They are used as power cut offs (from what I can determine - I don't know much about this stuff, but I can tell you what they do). There is a key that powers the control panel on, and when the key is turned off, those (they are contact relays I assume) they "pop open" and power is taken away from the rest of the system. Again, I don't know much about this stuff, but that is what happens.
     
  17. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
    Yeah, these control panels were built back in the late 70's, so I can imagine that quite a bit has changed since they were built... One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a shift from the electromechanical "ice cube" relays that are used, to solid state relays... We're looking into converting our system to that. We also still use glass fuses and are looking into using the little blade fuses.
     
  18. Minder

    Minder

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    For a satisfactory refit/rewire/upgrade of the panel, you require the original schematic prints, or whoever is doing this transformation does..
    M.
     
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  19. Minder

    Minder

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    Actually many of these systems have been converted to PLC, where practical.
    It also makes trouble shooting a breeze for maintenance personnel.
    This is why GM instigated the introduction of such a device in the first place..
    M.,
     
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  20. Ronzed

    Ronzed

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    Sep 21, 2017
    Yeah, I have the original wiring schematics here with me... Ha Ha, one of those giant, old school, rotting paper contractor booklets of schematics that require big metal rods to hold it all together... I have to say though, these old schematics have a very pleasant aroma to them!
     
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