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Weird electron behavior

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Robert, Nov 19, 2005.

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  1. Robert

    Robert Guest

    Last year some physicists managed to split sheets of graphite
    off by themselves, making a sheet of carbon atoms only one carbon atom
    thick. And they were stable when created.

    Now physicists are finding that electrons move through them like they
    had no mass, or 1000 times faster than in normal metals.

    http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/11/6/1

    Robert
     
  2. Yeah, those electrons are certainly weird. But what are you gonna do?
     
  3. Guest

    Well, what I'm going to do is start by sorting out your thinking. No
    electron is weird. All electrons are identical - give or take their
    spin - so it isn't the electrons that are weird, but the behaviour they
    are exhibiting in single-layer graphite.

    Fairly obviously, they act like a two-dimensional gas in this
    environment and you have to understand their behaviour in that context.
    I don't know any quantum mechanics worth a damn - Kevin Alyward might
    be better off - but I do know enough to know that a two-dimensional
    electron gas is going to behave in thoroughly weird ways.
     
  4. redbelly

    redbelly Guest

    The "no rest mass" description is an exageration. The electrons move
    at 1/300th the speed of light, while zero-rest-mass particles would
    move AT the speed of light.

    Mark
     
  5. John  Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    You tell'em, Bill! We can't allow no electron disrespect around here,
    no siree!

    John
     
  6. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    No, all electrons are weird.
     
  7. So does that imply that tachyons have < zero mass?
     
  8. John  Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    No, it implies that they have no fashion sense at all. Tachyons need a
    *serious* makeover.

    John
     
  9. redbelly

    redbelly Guest

    Let me preface my answer by saying that I don't take discussion of
    tachyons seriously. They have never been experimentally detected, nor
    has anbody ever proposed a way in which they might be detectable (to my
    knowledge).

    The answer to your question is no. A negative (rest) mass would imply
    that a particle accelerates in the opposite direction to an applied
    force. (F=ma is still valid. Or, more correctly, F = dp/dt ). It's
    speed would still be below c.

    I'm not sure what faster-than-light speeds would require.
    Mathematically, it might require that the mass is an imaginary number.
    All the more reason why I don't take the whole concept seriously.

    Regards,

    Mark
     
  10. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    No the latest studies show that they are just gluons that are not
    completely dry.
     

  11. "Nothing is real" ....John Lennon


    martin
     
  12. The fact that tachyons are represented by *complex* numbers has zero
    releveance to wheather they are a viable (existance) concept or not.

    This "imaginary" number bit has an amazing amount of bad press. The name
    should never have been used in the first place in mathematics. Its why I
    never use the term. I use the term "complex". *All* numbers are
    imaginary. We represent *all* physical entities with numbers. The fact
    that this representation may be with ordered pairs, triplets, 2nd order
    tensors, twisters etc, has no baring on the reality of a physical
    object. The numbers are just a way of describing the object, they are
    not the object itself.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  13. Tachyons have complex mass, i.e. of the form, jm or im, depending on
    whether you are a an engineer or a mathematician.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  14. Ahmm...You give me far to much credit on physics!


    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  15. Fred Bartoli

    Fred Bartoli Guest

    May I infer from that that jim is a mathematician-engineer hybrid and has a
    negative mass? :)
     
  16. Guest

    Okay, all electrons are identically weird. This doesn't help you when
    you want to explain why they are behaving oddly in a particular
    situation.
     
  17. Guest

    Intellectually speaking, yes.His opinions outside of engineering do
    seem to be at ninety degrees to the real axis.

    His physical mass does seem to be depressingly real, finite and
    positive.
     
  18. Nice ones. Truly excellent wit.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
  19. Well, ya big silly! They're confusing relativistic electrons with
    massless Dirac fermions.

    Any schoolchild should be able to grok the difference.

    Good Luck!
    Rich
     
  20. Yeah, I thought that had been well-known since they were discovered.
    How else could they move backwards in time, unless they had negative
    mass?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
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