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Water Collection Project

J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have a metal roof, so I redirected rain water runoff to go directly to
my swimming pool. This allows me to stop using the ground water which
contains high levels of sulphur. Though the smell does go away after a
small dosage of bleach, I feel better using the water run off. In a
normal 1/2 inch rainy day, I can collect 1000+ gallons without any
trouble. On those downpour days, the pool overflows, which is no big
deal. I am using a 15ft x 4ft aboveground pool, this holds about 5000
gallons. My normal monthly usage is around 6000 gallons.

I installed a check valve on the return side of the Sand & DE filters.
This prevents drawing unfilter water from the return side. I installed a
brass 4 port hose adapter on the inlet & outlet sides of the filters.
This allows me to service each filter without shutting down the water
supply. I then installed a parallel bank of 4 10 inch .5 micron
polyester filters in clear filter housings in my laundry room. From
there it gets connected to both my toilet tanks.

This setup should drop my water consumption by 80 percent. The showers,
and faucets will continue to be supplied by the county, until I can
install a water conditioner before the 4 parallel filters. I was hoping
to find a nice whole house reverse osmosis system for under $500, but I
will keep looking.

Jim Rojas
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
I have a metal roof, so I redirected rain water runoff to go directly to
my swimming pool. This allows me to stop using the ground water which
contains high levels of sulphur. Though the smell does go away after a
small dosage of bleach, I feel better using the water run off. In a
normal 1/2 inch rainy day, I can collect 1000+ gallons without any
trouble. On those downpour days, the pool overflows, which is no big
deal. I am using a 15ft x 4ft aboveground pool, this holds about 5000
gallons. My normal monthly usage is around 6000 gallons.

I installed a check valve on the return side of the Sand & DE filters.
This prevents drawing unfilter water from the return side. I installed a
brass 4 port hose adapter on the inlet & outlet sides of the filters.
This allows me to service each filter without shutting down the water
supply. I then installed a parallel bank of 4 10 inch .5 micron
polyester filters in clear filter housings in my laundry room. From
there it gets connected to both my toilet tanks.

This setup should drop my water consumption by 80 percent. The showers,
and faucets will continue to be supplied by the county, until I can
install a water conditioner before the 4 parallel filters. I was hoping
to find a nice whole house reverse osmosis system for under $500, but I
will keep looking.

Jim Rojas

One important note. In order to get this system to supply any water, you
must install a small on demand 30-45PSI water pump. It should shut down
automatically when the water is not flowing. You can get these in 12VDC
or 120VAC models. Just make sure it has a 3/4 inch inlet & outlet
threads. I have mine installed under my utility sink in the laundry
room. You should avoid installing these pumps outdoors, unless you place
it in a protected area for longer life.

As far as the .5 micro filters, since they have clear housings, you must
not expose them to sunlight. Otherwise algae will grow in it. I also
have my filter array mounted in the laundry room, right next to the
utility sink.

Jim Rojas
 
G

Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sounds nice, got any pictures?

Here is mine. A bit smaller in scale. And cost.
I think I have about $10.00 sunk into this.

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/14089695/1/Rain Barrel?h=855f0d

I have been thinking of expanding this with a few more barrels
and adding a shallow well pump so I can get water up to the toilets
and flush them with rain water. Right now, most of the water
I collect just goes down the overflow.
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gordon said:
Sounds nice, got any pictures?

Here is mine. A bit smaller in scale. And cost.
I think I have about $10.00 sunk into this.

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/14089695/1/Rain Barrel?h=855f0d

I have been thinking of expanding this with a few more barrels
and adding a shallow well pump so I can get water up to the toilets
and flush them with rain water. Right now, most of the water
I collect just goes down the overflow.

My grandson has my camera. I do have an old Sony Mavica FD92, but it
needs a new battery.

Jim Rojas
 
C

Curbie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh, boy.

The normal rain fall for the rainiest month (August) in Tampa is 7.6".
http://www.rssweather.com/climate/Florida/Tampa/

7.6" / 31 Days = less than .25" per day for the rainiest month of the
year in which it rains almost every day around 4:00 to 5:00Pm due to
convection.

@ .25" of rain fall, collecting 1000 gallons normal day would require
a single-story house footprint of 8,400ft2.

Good message, shaky messenger.

For anyone interested in this idea, get your average rain/snow fall
and plug them into this spread-sheet:

Curbie

Value Unit Note Expression
Location Rain & Snow Falls 1
Average (AVErain) 0.25 Inches 2
Average (AVEsnow) 0.00 Inches 3
Factor of Normalization (Fnorm) 80% 4
Factor of Concentration of Rain (FconR) 75% 5
Normal (NORrain) 0.20 Inches 6 =AVErain * Fnorm
Normal (NORsnow) 0.00 Inches 7 =AVEsnow * Fnorm

Roof Catchment 8
Length (RCl) 200 Feet 9
Width (RCw) 45 Feet 9
Roof Capture of Rain (FRCrain) 90% 10
Roof Capture of Snow (FRCsnow) 10% 11
Area (RCa) 9000 Feet^2 12 =RCl * RCw
Roof Catchment of Rain (RCrain) 1010 Gallons 13 =NORrain *
(CuFt2Gal / In2Ft) * RCa * FRCrain
Roof Catchment of Snow (RCsnow) 0 Gallons 14 =NORsnow *
(CuFt2Gal / In2Ft) * RCa * FRCsnow * Fsnowpack
Roof Catchment of Both (RCboth) 1010 Gallons 15 =RCrain +
Rcsnow

Ground Catchment 16
Diameter (GCd) 35 Feet 17
Factor of Ground Catchment (FGC) 60% 18
Factor of Snow Pack (Fsnowpack) 30% 19
Area (GCa) 962 Feet^2 20 =PI() * (GCd / 2)^2
Ground Catchment of Snow (GCsnow) 0 Gallons 21
=NORsnow * (CuFt2Gal / In2Ft) * GCa * FGC * Fsnowpack
Ground Catchment of Rain (GCrain) 72 Gallons 22
=NORrain * (CuFt2Gal / In2Ft) * GCa * FGC
Ground Catchment of Both (GCboth) 72 Gallons 23
=GCsnow + GCrain

Cistern 24
Height (Hcist) 7 Feet 25
Roof Cistern Volume (RCVcist) 101 Feet^3 26 =(RCboth /
CuFt2Gal) * FconR
Roof Cistern Diameter (RCDcist) 4.3 Feet 27 =SQRT(RCVcist
/ Hcist / PI()) * 2
Ground Cistern Volume (GCVcist) 10 Feet^3 28 =GCboth /
CuFt2Gal
Ground Cistern Diameter (GCDcist) 1 Feet 29
=SQRT(GCVcist / Hcist / PI()) * 2
Combined Volume (CVcist) 111 Feet^3 30 =RCVcist +
GCVcist
Combined Diameter (CDcist) 4 Feet 31 =SQRT(CVcist /
Hcist / PI()) * 2
Total Harvest of Both (Harvest) 1082 Gallons 32 =RCboth +
Scboth

1 Cubic Foot of Water (CuFt2Gal) 7.481 Gallons 33
Inches to Foot (In2Ft) 12 Inches 34

Footnotes
[01] Care must be taken with the term "precipitation" which is any
form of water falling to the earth (rain, snow, hail, sleet, or mist).
I separate rain
& snow because snow accumulates all season, but is collected
as water all at once in the spring melt, where as rain collects as it
falls
during a location's rain season.
[02] Average rain fall includes the odd wet and dry years which may
lead to improperly sized system.
[03] Average snow fall includes the odd wet and dry years which may
lead to improperly sized system.
[04] Adjusts the percentage of average yearly rain and snow fall to
excludes the odd wet and dry year which may lead to improperly sized
system.
[05] Adjusts the percentage of rain season "concentration", short rain
seasons concentrate the yearly rain into a short period of time, where
long
rain seasons distribute the rain over the entire season. This
can be a major consideration in sizing a cistern, selecting a higher
concentration
percentage (short rain season) will increase cisterns storage
capacity, a lower concentration percent will decease storage capacity.
This
factor only effects rain, snow falls all snow season and
accumulates as standing snow, but melts all at once into the cistern.
[06] Normal rain fall is what "normally" falls in an area excluding
the odd wet or dry year, and can be adjusted by the "normalization"
factor.
[07] Normal snow fall is what "normally" falls in an area excluding
the odd wet or dry year, and can be adjusted by the "normalization"
factor.
[08] Building roof structures are generally square, thus so are roof
catchment areas.
[09] This are the total "length" and "width" of the roof catchment
area, if you're using the areas of more than one structure, calculate
each
structure separately, then add these individual areas together
for a total area. Lastly choose any "length" and "width" values that
equal the
combined total area.
[10] Adjusts the percentage of rain fall that is "captured" by a roof,
some bounces away and some is forced off the gable side of the roof.
[11] Adjusts the percentage of snow fall that is "captured" by a roof,
most snow slides off roofs in sheets during it's accumulation period.
[12] This is the total roof catchment area.
[13] This is the total harvest of rain fall by the roof catchment area
in gallons.
[14] This is the total harvest of snow fall by the roof catchment area
in gallons.
[15] This is the total harvest of both rain and snow fall by the roof
catchment area in gallons.
[16] Again care must be taken with the term "precipitation". Catchment
takes place on the ground, generally in a buried cistern.
rain fall which takes place on a structure where snow can slide
off roofs in sheets.
[17] Ground catchment area is better measured by the diameter around a
buried cistern. This is the diameter where rain falls or snow falls or
is
piled-up.
[18] Adjusts the percentage of rain or snow fall that is "captured",
some will seep into the ground around the cistern without being
captured.
[19] Adjusts the percentage of snow fall "pack", from 10% for powder
up to 40% for piled-up or packed snow is typical.
[20] The total catchment area in feet^2 for the diameter of a ground
buried cistern given.
[21] This is the total harvest of snow fall by the ground catchment
area in gallons.
[22] This is the total harvest of rain fall by the ground catchment
area in gallons.
[23] This is the total harvest of both rain and snow fall by the
ground catchment area in gallons.
[24] For structural reasons, cisterns should be round, rain and snow
cisterns may be separate or combines, a rain cistern may be by your
house
and a snow cistern may out close to a garden or livestock. It
all depends on someone's needs and resources.
[25] The height is used for BOTH rain and snow cisterns,
considerations given to frost line depth (water freezes), soil type
and pack, and water
table depth will help determine height for buried cisterns.
[26] Roof cistern volume in cubic feet as determined by the water
harvested by the specified roof catchment.
[27] Roof cistern diameter needed to store the volume of water
harvested from the roof catchment.
[28] Ground cistern volume in cubic feet as determined by the water
harvested by the specified ground catchment.
[29] Ground cistern diameter needed to store the volume of water
harvested from the ground catchment.
[30] Combined rain & snow cistern volume in cubic feet as determined
by the harvest of both catchments.
[31] Combined rain & snow cistern diameter in feet as determined by
the harvest of both catchments.
[32] Combined rain & snow cistern volume in gallons as determined by
the harvest of both catchments.
[33] Constant for gallons of water in a single cubic foot.
[34] Constant for inches in a foot.
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
So what you are saying that it is impossible to collect 1000 gallons of
rain water in just one day of rain? You obviously never been Florida.

I am only collecting water from the back end of my house. I haven't
installed any gutters on the front or side. Doing that would double my
collection efforts. I really don't need anymore than what I am using now
for the moment.

It hasn't rained here for 2-3 months. My pool lost 18 inches due to
evaporation. The pool is 15x4. If the pool holds 5000 gallons, my
guesstimate of 1000 gallons collected is very under exaggerated. In the
past 2 weeks it has rained 3 times. My pool is overflowing.

My setup is basically temporary. I have a spare metal roofing panel
acting as a 36 inch wide gutter. I have a total of 10ft of PVC gutter
installed. I have a 1 inch PVC pipe running from the pool to the end of
the metal roofing panel. A 3 ft piece of gutter is used to connect the
whole thing. The other 7ft of gutter I temporarily installed it over my
back french doors. The house is under construction, so things will
change as progress is made.

It rained pretty hard yesterday. For the most part, the gutter kept
overflowing, so I am losing a good part of what I am collecting. I know
I should be using real gutter downspouts, but like I said, its just
temporary. Maybe I should drain the pool completely and see if one of
our normal rainfalls would fill it up in a single day. I don't see why
it wouldn't.

I also have a 60 gallon rain barrel directly underneath my roof panel. I
added a hose fitting to slow down the amount of water to be stored in
the barrel. I use this water for the inside plants and for both my fish
tanks.

I will see about taking some pictures of it, and posting it on my web
server.

Jim Rojas
 
C

Curbie

Jan 1, 1970
0
So what you are saying that it is impossible to collect 1000 gallons of
rain water in just one day of rain? You obviously never been Florida.
I'm just saying .5" of rain isn't a normal day's rain and to convert a
normal day's rain (in August the rainiest month of the year for Tampa)
of .25" you or anyone else would need an 8,400 ft2 house footprint!

I'm also saying you should try to get facts straight so you don't
mislead readers, which is a bad habit of yours and if people are
interested in this idea, they get a lot further along doing the
numbers.

Your view of what is obvious, is about as factual as most other things
you've said, I lived in Deerfield Beach FL for about 30 years.

Good message, shaky messenger.

Curbie
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie said:
I'm just saying .5" of rain isn't a normal day's rain and to convert a
normal day's rain (in August the rainiest month of the year for Tampa)
of .25" you or anyone else would need an 8,400 ft2 house footprint!

I'm also saying you should try to get facts straight so you don't
mislead readers, which is a bad habit of yours and if people are
interested in this idea, they get a lot further along doing the
numbers.

Your view of what is obvious, is about as factual as most other things
you've said, I lived in Deerfield Beach FL for about 30 years.

Good message, shaky messenger.

Curbie

On our first day of rain we got close to 2 inches fo the entire day.

Rain does not seek its own level when its falling. Some areas get no
rain, others get twice as much rain as officially reported.

I left a 5 gallon pail in the yard that day. It had 6 inches of water in
it. Does that mean we got 6 inches of rain? Of course not.

I stated that my pool lost 18 inches of water. According to an online
pool calculator, that is over 1000 gallons easy. The total roof area of
water collection is about 950sq ft, give or take. So it must have rained
alot more that day than what was officially reported.

Jim Rojas
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Gordon said:
Sounds nice, got any pictures?

Here is mine. A bit smaller in scale. And cost.
I think I have about $10.00 sunk into this.

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/14089695/1/Rain Barrel?h=855f0d

I have been thinking of expanding this with a few more barrels
and adding a shallow well pump so I can get water up to the toilets
and flush them with rain water. Right now, most of the water
I collect just goes down the overflow.

Here are some pictures I took with my old Sony camera:

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/19690008/1/water project?h=f26a3a

Jim Rojas
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie said:
I'm just saying .5" of rain isn't a normal day's rain and to convert a
normal day's rain (in August the rainiest month of the year for Tampa)
of .25" you or anyone else would need an 8,400 ft2 house footprint!

I'm also saying you should try to get facts straight so you don't
mislead readers, which is a bad habit of yours and if people are
interested in this idea, they get a lot further along doing the
numbers.

Your view of what is obvious, is about as factual as most other things
you've said, I lived in Deerfield Beach FL for about 30 years.

Good message, shaky messenger.

Curbie

I went to 3 different online pool volume calculators. Each one stated
that a 15ft round pool that is 18 inches deep (amount of rain I
collected) comes out to 2000 gallons. That's alot more that I expected.
So one normal .5 inch of rainfall is all I need in a month to keep my
pool topped off. Though I may need more due to summer heat evaporation.
I will keep you all posted.

Jim Rojas
 
C

Curbie

Jan 1, 1970
0
You went to three on-line pool calculators to prove a point not in
dispute?
Height 18 In
Diameter 180 In 15'
Radius 90 In =B2 / 2
Volume In Cubic Inches 458,044.2 In3 =(PI() * (B3^2)) * B1
Volume in Gallons 1,982.9 Gallons =B4 / B6
One Gallon 231 In3

The on-line pool calculators were right, but while we're doing some
simple math let us take a closer look at your claims, shall we?

"The total roof area of water collection is about 950sq ft"

Abnormal Daily Rainfall for Tampa 0.5 In
Claimed Roof Catchment Area 950 Ft2
Volume of Water Caught 39.58333333 F3 =(B2 * B1) /
12
Gallons of Water Caught 296.1038771 Gallons =B3 * B6

Gallons per Cubic Foot 7.480519 Gallons

So given your abnormal daily rainfall for Tampa of .5" and your
claimed roof catchment area 950ft2 that catches ~296 gallons and tops
off a pool with a 2000 gallon deficit.

Good message, shaky messenger.

Curbie
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie said:
You went to three on-line pool calculators to prove a point not in
dispute?
Height 18 In
Diameter 180 In 15'
Radius 90 In =B2 / 2
Volume In Cubic Inches 458,044.2 In3 =(PI() * (B3^2)) * B1
Volume in Gallons 1,982.9 Gallons =B4 / B6
One Gallon 231 In3

The on-line pool calculators were right, but while we're doing some
simple math let us take a closer look at your claims, shall we?

"The total roof area of water collection is about 950sq ft"

Abnormal Daily Rainfall for Tampa 0.5 In
Claimed Roof Catchment Area 950 Ft2
Volume of Water Caught 39.58333333 F3 =(B2 * B1) /
12
Gallons of Water Caught 296.1038771 Gallons =B3 * B6

Gallons per Cubic Foot 7.480519 Gallons

So given your abnormal daily rainfall for Tampa of .5" and your
claimed roof catchment area 950ft2 that catches ~296 gallons and tops
off a pool with a 2000 gallon deficit.

Good message, shaky messenger.

Curbie

Curbie, you really need to refill your medz. You love to over complicate
the simple, Feel free to stop by and see for yourself.

Good data by the way. But you are no scientist.

Jim Rojas
 
C

Curbie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie, you really need to refill your medz.
Oh, you're a M.D. now?
You love to over complicate the simple
Grade-school arithmetic is too complicated for you?
Feel free to stop by and see for yourself.
See what for myself, a 950Ft2 roof collect 2000 gallons from .5" of
rain fall? I wouldn't waste me time on something that's impossible,
that's why we were taught grade-school arithmetic, so we didn't get
duped by this kind of non-sense.
Good data by the way. But you are no scientist.
I learned grade-school arithmetic, too bad you didn't, but more
importantly you're not learning that people read these threads for
real solutions to real problems and these fairy-tails aren't helping
anyone solve anything.

If you want to help with real solutions (based on reality) to real
problems be my guest, if you want to post fairy-tails that someone
could mistake as a solution, don't be surprised if someone proves your
post to be non-sense.

Curbie
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie said:
Oh, you're a M.D. now?

Grade-school arithmetic is too complicated for you?

See what for myself, a 950Ft2 roof collect 2000 gallons from .5" of
rain fall? I wouldn't waste me time on something that's impossible,
that's why we were taught grade-school arithmetic, so we didn't get
duped by this kind of non-sense.

I learned grade-school arithmetic, too bad you didn't, but more
importantly you're not learning that people read these threads for
real solutions to real problems and these fairy-tails aren't helping
anyone solve anything.

If you want to help with real solutions (based on reality) to real
problems be my guest, if you want to post fairy-tails that someone
could mistake as a solution, don't be surprised if someone proves your
post to be non-sense.

Curbie

That's just it Curbie, you meaningless cut & paste data proves nothing.
I invited you to come over on a rainy day and see for yourself. My
method isn't scientific, but its real.

Jim Rojas
 
C

Curbie

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's just Jim Rojas, facts are meaningless, reality proves nothing
and desperately trying to waste people's time on the impossible.

First a "magic pipe", now a "magic roof", what magic pipe dream is
next?

Curbie
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Curbie said:
That's just Jim Rojas, facts are meaningless, reality proves nothing
and desperately trying to waste people's time on the impossible.

First a "magic pipe", now a "magic roof", what magic pipe dream is
next?

Curbie

There's nothing magic here...you might be thinking of Disneyland...

Jim Rojas
 
D

Daniel who wants to know

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Rojas said:
Curbie wrote:

There's nothing magic here...you might be thinking of Disneyland...

Jim Rojas

Anyone who claims to have made a PWM circuit speed up a DC motor VS direct
connection is claiming magic, or has never used a simple cordless drill
(hint: that whining/whistling noise it makes when you lightly pull the
trigger is the PWM slowing the motor down). When you pull the trigger all
the way the motor is hooked directly across the battery.
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel said:
Anyone who claims to have made a PWM circuit speed up a DC motor VS direct
connection is claiming magic, or has never used a simple cordless drill
(hint: that whining/whistling noise it makes when you lightly pull the
trigger is the PWM slowing the motor down). When you pull the trigger all
the way the motor is hooked directly across the battery.

I have the entire collection of Ryobi 18v power tools. I got tired of
replacing the batteries every few years. I now use a 24V battery bank
using 2 12V 8AH Sealed Gel Cell batteries. My drills now spin faster, my
saws do not bog down. Is this magic? Hardly.

I don't understand som of you guys...everything is impossible unless it
is commercially available?

I enjoy finding solutions to everyday problems. Most of you are content
with sticking your heads in the sand.

Jim Rojas
 
J

Jim Rojas

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel said:
Anyone who claims to have made a PWM circuit speed up a DC motor VS direct
connection is claiming magic, or has never used a simple cordless drill
(hint: that whining/whistling noise it makes when you lightly pull the
trigger is the PWM slowing the motor down). When you pull the trigger all
the way the motor is hooked directly across the battery.

Daniel. Pulse width modulation isn't magic. It is done everyday.
Variable speed drills, 220v & 440vac motors have drive controllers that
do just that. Take one apart someday. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Once the lightbulb in your head comes on, then the possibilities are
endless. You can do alot with any PWM circuit.

Jim Rojas
 
B

Bob F

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
I have the entire collection of Ryobi 18v power tools. I got tired of
replacing the batteries every few years. I now use a 24V battery bank
using 2 12V 8AH Sealed Gel Cell batteries. My drills now spin faster,
my saws do not bog down. Is this magic? Hardly.

I don't understand som of you guys...everything is impossible unless
it is commercially available?

I enjoy finding solutions to everyday problems. Most of you are
content with sticking your heads in the sand.

I have some newfangled power tools that actually run right off the power line,
with no intervening power supplies or chargers. My saws run way better than
yours.
 
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