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Wanted: A Very Accurate Timer

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by [email protected], Jun 24, 2005.

  1. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    That's why that won't work...
    I'm well aware of the drift.
    No. It is only approximately known, but the "synchronising-information"
    will be *visually* assessible from the monitor screen.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
  2. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    .
    THIS IS ALMOST TRIVIAL TO DO!!!!!!!!!! Why are you so impelled to continue
    to be a bonehead?
    People keep giving you answers, and you keep rejecting them - the only
    logical conclusion is that you're doing nothing but trolling.

    Sorry.
    Rich
     
  3. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    I'm not the one trolling here.

    None of that had to do with the original question which was for a
    timer. And that's all.

    I've got all of the answers I could get here.

    Darren Harris
    Staten ISland, New York.
     
  4. Guest

    But have you read them? Apart from that you may not be able to interpret
    them, I know you got some useful advise. I suggested you use an 120Hz
    clock, so you will actually obtain the sampling resolution you want. I
    have not seen you respond to that, thankful nor rejective. For me that
    implies you should really find an electronics designer to work with.
     
  5. James Waldby

    James Waldby Guest

    I think "Hanlon's Razor", ie, "Never attribute to malice that which
    is adequately explained by stupidity"* is a more-logical
    explanation here, if we regard trolling as malicious and think of
    ignorance/boneheadity/laziness/wrongheadedness as akin to stupidity.
    It seems to me that Darren Harris has rejected out of hand most
    suggestions because he failed to understand them.
    -jiw

    * eg, http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon
     
  6. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    For me, your suggestion that he use a 120Hz clock implies that you
    don't know what you're talking about.

    Considering that the OP has specified that: "It must to be accurate
    to within 1/60th of a second over the course of 6 hours."

    means that, since there are 3600 seconds in an hour there will be
    21,600 seconds in six hours, and since he wants to split the seconds
    into 60 slivers each, there will be 1,296,000 slivers in six hours.

    Since he states that the accuracy must be _within_ 1 sliver, that
    means he needs an accuracy of one part in 1,296,000. Looking at it
    from a different perspective, that's an accuracy of +/- 0.000038580%.

    Now, what was it you were saying about that 120Hz clock?
     
  7. Guy Macon

    Guy Macon Guest

    You certainly appear to be trolling.
    Your original question was fully answered several times, as were
    your followups where you kept adding details that you left out.

    Please read this:

    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
    I am no fan of the usual flamewars and topic drift here, but in
    this case the fault is 100% yours. You won't get a good answer
    anywhere else unless you read the above website and start following
    the advice in it.

    Followups set. If you don't know what that means, find out.
     
  8. Peter Duck

    Peter Duck Guest

    In message <>
    It seems to me a perfectly valid point, illustrating the universal
    truth, hopefully familiar to anyone with an address such as yours, that
    the accuracy/resolution of any measuring-instrument must be higher than
    that required of the measurements to be made.
    Nothing about how its accuracy could be achieved; only, by implication,
    that this should be better than 1 part in 2.6 million rather than 1.3

    Non-trivial in isolation, but 'standard frequency/time' transmissions
    make available to everyone within range the accuracy in which national
    standards-bureaux have heavily invested: propagation-variability still
    leaves the result 'better' than anything feasible to achieve otherwise.

    'Radio-controlled' clocks locked to these are cheap domestic commodity
    items, though for any serious application modification/additions would
    be needed to produce/use an 'electronic' output instead of the normal
    'visual' one. (They don't usually even have a 'stopwatch' mode, for
    starters, though £8/$15 watches available here do)
    This, however, would need more knowledge/skills than the OP claims.

    Though still unconvinced of the relevance of such accuracy-requirement
    to what little I've grasped of the clock-watching/button-pushing(!)
    application, the discussion IMO remains of some academic interest, if OT
    in a 'repair' NG ...
     
  9. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    The suggestion was faulty. That is why that post of his is now gone.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
  10. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    Only to someone who doesn't know what trolling is.
    Totally incorrect. Find a single post in this thread where it was
    answered completely.

    And I added no details that I "left out". Those "follow ups" should not
    have happened, since they were off post. But certain people kept
    needling me for details.
    What for?
    I don't need to read any such website.

    The topic drift here is not my fault. Would it take a genius to answer
    the question in the first post without needing more details?

    Evidently so.

    Again, I have whatever answers I can get here. Let it go.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
  11. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    I rejected most suggestions because I did understand them,and they were
    adequate for my needs. Only someone truly stupid would not understand
    that.

    Of those links that were posted, I have yet to hear back from the one
    company I e-mailed. And the timers didn't have enough details or were
    totally inadequate for my purposes.(Like those Ebay links you posted).

    I read all the advice here and said thanks a several times throughout
    the thread, and stated that I got all the info I could get here. What
    else do you want from me? The crap is over details that certain
    individuals are looking for. Those details are complicated and totally
    off topic.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
  12. Asimov

    Asimov Guest

    "John Fields" bravely wrote to "All" (29 Jun 05 13:45:16)
    --- on the heady topic of "Re: Wanted: A Very Accurate Timer"

    JF> From: John Fields <>
    JF> Xref: aeinews sci.electronics.design:25987
    JF> sci.electronics.repair:51922
    JF> -!-
    JF> For me, your suggestion that he use a 120Hz clock implies that you
    JF> don't know what you're talking about.

    JF> Considering that the OP has specified that: "It must to be accurate
    JF> to within 1/60th of a second over the course of 6 hours."

    JF> means that, since there are 3600 seconds in an hour there will be
    JF> 21,600 seconds in six hours, and since he wants to split the seconds
    JF> into 60 slivers each, there will be 1,296,000 slivers in six hours.

    JF> Since he states that the accuracy must be _within_ 1 sliver, that
    JF> means he needs an accuracy of one part in 1,296,000. Looking at it
    JF> from a different perspective, that's an accuracy of +/- 0.000038580%.

    JF> Now, what was it you were saying about that 120Hz clock?


    John,

    IMO, his apprehended requirement seems far too demanding for the task.
    The original question was simply lacking in experience but that is no
    crime for a novice. He is attempting to do in hardware what is a
    trivial solution in software. Anyone who has toyed with simple
    computer programming must at some time come across a program example
    that attempts to guess at the timing of a keypress. They may have even
    come across some that learn a pattern.

    A*s*i*m*o*v

    .... Hardware: The parts of a computer that can be kicked
     
  13. Guest

    I was not presenting it as a complete solution, but as a useful part of
    finding another strategy to solve the problem.
     
  14. Guest

    Problem with looking for advise or information on usenet is that you are
    not the person who is in control over what others do to help you. It's
    the other way around. If someone has an idea, he or she will try to help
    you as good as possible. The more questions you are asked, the better.
    It means people are really trying to help. In the end you will have to
    evaluate all answers you get yourself. The more answers you reject, the
    more dissatisfied you will be with the help you are getting. I myself
    have not analysed your problem toroughly (as repair and design is a
    hobby and I have more things to do for which my time is paid), but I did
    try to give you some hints for other approaches that may work. That is
    the kind of information you will get from the usenet. With lots of luck
    you will find an out-of-the box solution here, but that is in no way
    guaranteed.
     
  15. Tim Shoppa

    Tim Shoppa Guest

    It uses registers that change every 1/60th of a
    I'm guessing that you're trying to beat some sort of gambling/gaming
    system that uses a pseudorandom sequence clocked at 60Hz. A few
    off-the-wall comments:

    1. You don't have to do it consistently, just enough to put the odds
    in your favor. Most games are set by law to returns in the 40-48%
    range. Just "hitting the button" in a 1/6 second window (sounds
    feasible to me) where you know you've got a 7 or 8 out of 10 chance is
    way better. You don't wait for the 1/60th of a second where you know
    you win, but instead you wait for a 1/6sec window where there's a
    really good chance you'll win.

    2. The gaming system's clock is probably nowhere near the 1ppm
    accuracy you're stating that you require. It would probably make more
    sense to try to phase-lock the "guesser" to the system. This isn't
    easy if there's a lot of noise and other pseudo-random uncertainties
    involved, but it's not impossible.

    If the gaming system is locked to AC power, then there's enough 60Hz
    ripple in the light out of a fluorescent or incadescent to lock to that
    easily.

    I'd be very surprised if a gaming system had a 1/60 second clock, BTW.

    Tim.
     
  16. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Zaadvragende Ogen! ;-P

    With Friendly Greets,
    Rich
     
  17. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    DOOOD!!!!! =:-O

    He's trying to cheat the slots?!?!??? F-ck, man, I thought he
    just wanted to reinvent Bazo's Breaker or something.

    Speaking of screwing a casino, I'd rather deal with real feds than
    casino security. Like, for example, printing out a scan of a bill,
    then trying to use it in a casino changer - you wouldn't even
    make it out of the building. (although, I haven't tried to pass one
    to a blackjack dealer...) But the little girl at the bank teller window
    will happily break it to small bills for you - or actually, the easiest
    place to pass bogus bills is at the nudie bar - you flash your bogus
    twenty, and ask the babe for change. Then you leave, and go to the next
    nudie bar, where you rip off another bimbo $19.00.

    It's almost trivial. >;->

    (of course, if you're going for hundreds or thousands, then you'll
    have to find your own foreign investors. I hear gun-running pays
    pretty well, if you like that sort of people.)

    Chears!
    Rich
     
  18. Guest

    Next time, say that to a girl... Or better yet, about a girl behind her
    back ;-)
     
  19. 2.com

    2.com Guest

    What?!?

    Was that paragraph really necessary?


    The problem is the *abuse*. Being called stupid, and troll, or a
    bonehead by individuals who couldn't even understand the question, let
    alone come up with answers.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
  20. 2.com

    2.com Guest


    Thanks.

    I agree with all that. But what I'm doing has nothing to do with a
    gambling system.

    Darren Harris
    Staten Island, New York.
     
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