Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Want to build an amp

Not just any amp. I know how to do it and it is not only time to prove
myself, my Sansui fried

So I need an amp. Going in, I want to protect my speakers, and my
design will never distort. The gain stage that accomplishes that is
shut down until it is needed, and there are other factors as well. If
I pour myself into it, I will use this certain power trnasformer. This
thing is bad to the one. It maintainms + and - sixty something volts
even under a four ohm load on both sides. Cranking this thing up could
blow a breaker in the main box, and did so. I think this is about one
of the best I have ever seen. Highest power output.

Thing is I have these speakers that I really like that can't handle
all that juice, so I intend to put in a limiting system. I have given
some thought to this.

Since it has to work into low impedance I am thinking really hefty
trasnsistors, three pairs of them per channel. And regulators,
switchmode regulators.

I intend to make ananalog algorithim. I want to make it whaere you can
select the maximum power output, and it will regulate the rails down,
but still provide a bit of instantaneous power. I intend to do this
all in analog.

The maximum power of this amp will be about 263 watts per channel into
eight ohms, What I want to do is to protect my speakers. So I intrend
to build in regulatiors. I am wrestling with the algorithm now. Do I
detect current or voltage ?

The deal is this, there will be three pairs of outputs in each
channel. There will also be three swictmode FET regulators feeding
each bank of them. This is to limit power. This is to save the
speakers I like.

Now the idea here is to give it alot of oomph. I want to deytect when
the woofers are in over-excursion, and limit it to that. That user
will have power levels to choose from, and that is the max, but then a
lower average power is selected and the amp couold have as much as
+12Db dynamic headroom.

To do this, The regulators will have to operate at at least 100Khz.
Maybe higher. I need top keep ahead of the demand. I want the impact
my subwoofers can deliver, but I do not want to destroy my tweeters.
This is a tall task in the analog domain, but I think I can do it.

Now to provide the dynamic headroom, heretofore unseen on Earth, I
will have to build a time constant into it. I will have to tkae into
account what my speakers can tak as wel as the ouput devices, actually
moreso.

It is time, I am getting to the pimt where I really want to do this. I
know I can. I have a very different bias cicuit that is tolerant of
supply rail changes, I did find a wat to compensate. I know how to use
commutator switches and efven analog commutators, but thet is not the
direction I want to take. I want to give my amp alot of headtroom so
it never distorts. Impossible you say ? I have already designed it.

Even some generic 829 can do it, the trick to keep the distortion down
is to keep the gain stage out of the loop untill and unless it is
needed. In other words the 829 just shuts up until it is time. It will
add a bit of residual noise but that is all.

But this is more advanced, I want the power supply to tradck the
audio, and provide a PREDETERMINED amount of extra power for a very
short time.

Don't get me wrong, set this thing to max and you got over 500 watts a
channel into four ohms. It would be 600 into my speakers but it will
never see that level unless I go spend money on something else.

My speakers are good enough that I wnt to keep them, and they are good
enough to land me in jail. How much more power do I need ? But I would
consider this a personal achievement, to build this.

We are talking twelve really good bipolars, twelve high speed FETs and
four coils alomg with a few high performance lower capacity filters.

I mean I want to detect when a woofer cone goes out of the magnetic
field via current monitoring. I have never seen an amp do this right.
I mean in a real time way with no digital. And this is only for the
bass. I got plans for the rest of the audio spectrum as well.

JURB
 
L

Lynn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not just any amp. I know how to do it and it is not only time to prove
myself, my Sansui fried

So I need an amp. Going in, I want to protect my speakers, and my
design will never distort. The gain stage that accomplishes that is
shut down until it is needed, and there are other factors as well. If
I pour myself into it, I will use this certain power trnasformer. This
thing is bad to the one. It maintainms + and - sixty something volts
even under a four ohm load on both sides. Cranking this thing up could
blow a breaker in the main box, and did so. I think this is about one
of the best I have ever seen. Highest power output.

Thing is I have these speakers that I really like that can't handle
all that juice, so I intend to put in a limiting system. I have given
some thought to this.

Since it has to work into low impedance I am thinking really hefty
trasnsistors, three pairs of them per channel. And regulators,
switchmode regulators.

I intend to make ananalog algorithim. I want to make it whaere you can
select the maximum power output, and it will regulate the rails down,
but still provide a bit of instantaneous power. I intend to do this
all in analog.

The maximum power of this amp will be about 263 watts per channel into
eight ohms, What I want to do is to protect my speakers. So I intrend
to build in regulatiors. I am wrestling with the algorithm now. Do I
detect current or voltage ?

The deal is this, there will be three pairs of outputs in each
channel. There will also be three swictmode FET regulators feeding
each bank of them. This is to limit power. This is to save the
speakers I like.

Now the idea here is to give it alot of oomph. I want to deytect when
the woofers are in over-excursion, and limit it to that. That user
will have power levels to choose from, and that is the max, but then a
lower average power is selected and the amp couold have as much as
+12Db dynamic headroom.

To do this, The regulators will have to operate at at least 100Khz.
Maybe higher. I need top keep ahead of the demand. I want the impact
my subwoofers can deliver, but I do not want to destroy my tweeters.
This is a tall task in the analog domain, but I think I can do it.

Now to provide the dynamic headroom, heretofore unseen on Earth, I
will have to build a time constant into it. I will have to tkae into
account what my speakers can tak as wel as the ouput devices, actually
moreso.

It is time, I am getting to the pimt where I really want to do this. I
know I can. I have a very different bias cicuit that is tolerant of
supply rail changes, I did find a wat to compensate. I know how to use
commutator switches and efven analog commutators, but thet is not the
direction I want to take. I want to give my amp alot of headtroom so
it never distorts. Impossible you say ? I have already designed it.

Even some generic 829 can do it, the trick to keep the distortion down
is to keep the gain stage out of the loop untill and unless it is
needed. In other words the 829 just shuts up until it is time. It will
add a bit of residual noise but that is all.

But this is more advanced, I want the power supply to tradck the
audio, and provide a PREDETERMINED amount of extra power for a very
short time.

Don't get me wrong, set this thing to max and you got over 500 watts a
channel into four ohms. It would be 600 into my speakers but it will
never see that level unless I go spend money on something else.

My speakers are good enough that I wnt to keep them, and they are good
enough to land me in jail. How much more power do I need ? But I would
consider this a personal achievement, to build this.

We are talking twelve really good bipolars, twelve high speed FETs and
four coils alomg with a few high performance lower capacity filters.

I mean I want to detect when a woofer cone goes out of the magnetic
field via current monitoring. I have never seen an amp do this right.
I mean in a real time way with no digital. And this is only for the
bass. I got plans for the rest of the audio spectrum as well.

JURB

Why don't you learn how to use Google, Jerk.
 
J

James Sweet

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not just any amp. I know how to do it and it is not only time to prove
myself, my Sansui fried

So I need an amp. Going in, I want to protect my speakers, and my
design will never distort. The gain stage that accomplishes that is
shut down until it is needed, and there are other factors as well. If
I pour myself into it, I will use this certain power trnasformer. This
thing is bad to the one. It maintainms + and - sixty something volts
even under a four ohm load on both sides. Cranking this thing up could
blow a breaker in the main box, and did so. I think this is about one
of the best I have ever seen. Highest power output.

Thing is I have these speakers that I really like that can't handle
all that juice, so I intend to put in a limiting system. I have given
some thought to this.

Since it has to work into low impedance I am thinking really hefty
trasnsistors, three pairs of them per channel. And regulators,
switchmode regulators.

I intend to make ananalog algorithim. I want to make it whaere you can
select the maximum power output, and it will regulate the rails down,
but still provide a bit of instantaneous power. I intend to do this
all in analog.

The maximum power of this amp will be about 263 watts per channel into
eight ohms, What I want to do is to protect my speakers. So I intrend
to build in regulatiors. I am wrestling with the algorithm now. Do I
detect current or voltage ?

The deal is this, there will be three pairs of outputs in each
channel. There will also be three swictmode FET regulators feeding
each bank of them. This is to limit power. This is to save the
speakers I like.

Now the idea here is to give it alot of oomph. I want to deytect when
the woofers are in over-excursion, and limit it to that. That user
will have power levels to choose from, and that is the max, but then a
lower average power is selected and the amp couold have as much as
+12Db dynamic headroom.

To do this, The regulators will have to operate at at least 100Khz.
Maybe higher. I need top keep ahead of the demand. I want the impact
my subwoofers can deliver, but I do not want to destroy my tweeters.
This is a tall task in the analog domain, but I think I can do it.

Now to provide the dynamic headroom, heretofore unseen on Earth, I
will have to build a time constant into it. I will have to tkae into
account what my speakers can tak as wel as the ouput devices, actually
moreso.

It is time, I am getting to the pimt where I really want to do this. I
know I can. I have a very different bias cicuit that is tolerant of
supply rail changes, I did find a wat to compensate. I know how to use
commutator switches and efven analog commutators, but thet is not the
direction I want to take. I want to give my amp alot of headtroom so
it never distorts. Impossible you say ? I have already designed it.

Even some generic 829 can do it, the trick to keep the distortion down
is to keep the gain stage out of the loop untill and unless it is
needed. In other words the 829 just shuts up until it is time. It will
add a bit of residual noise but that is all.

But this is more advanced, I want the power supply to tradck the
audio, and provide a PREDETERMINED amount of extra power for a very
short time.

Don't get me wrong, set this thing to max and you got over 500 watts a
channel into four ohms. It would be 600 into my speakers but it will
never see that level unless I go spend money on something else.

My speakers are good enough that I wnt to keep them, and they are good
enough to land me in jail. How much more power do I need ? But I would
consider this a personal achievement, to build this.

We are talking twelve really good bipolars, twelve high speed FETs and
four coils alomg with a few high performance lower capacity filters.

I mean I want to detect when a woofer cone goes out of the magnetic
field via current monitoring. I have never seen an amp do this right.
I mean in a real time way with no digital. And this is only for the
bass. I got plans for the rest of the audio spectrum as well.

JURB


How about one of these? http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/lowtim/

I built one a few years ago and have been happy with it. It's all the power
I could ever need.
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not just any amp. I know how to do it and it is not only time to prove
myself, my Sansui fried

So I need an amp. Going in, I want to protect my speakers, and my
design will never distort. The gain stage that accomplishes that is
shut down until it is needed, and there are other factors as well. If
I pour myself into it, I will use this certain power trnasformer. This
thing is bad to the one. It maintainms + and - sixty something volts
even under a four ohm load on both sides. Cranking this thing up could
blow a breaker in the main box, and did so. I think this is about one
of the best I have ever seen. Highest power output.

Thing is I have these speakers that I really like that can't handle
all that juice, so I intend to put in a limiting system. I have given
some thought to this.

Since it has to work into low impedance I am thinking really hefty
trasnsistors, three pairs of them per channel. And regulators,
switchmode regulators.

I intend to make ananalog algorithim. I want to make it whaere you can
select the maximum power output, and it will regulate the rails down,
but still provide a bit of instantaneous power. I intend to do this
all in analog.

The maximum power of this amp will be about 263 watts per channel into
eight ohms, What I want to do is to protect my speakers. So I intrend
to build in regulatiors. I am wrestling with the algorithm now. Do I
detect current or voltage ?

The deal is this, there will be three pairs of outputs in each
channel. There will also be three swictmode FET regulators feeding
each bank of them. This is to limit power. This is to save the
speakers I like.

Now the idea here is to give it alot of oomph. I want to deytect when
the woofers are in over-excursion, and limit it to that. That user
will have power levels to choose from, and that is the max, but then a
lower average power is selected and the amp couold have as much as
+12Db dynamic headroom.

To do this, The regulators will have to operate at at least 100Khz.
Maybe higher. I need top keep ahead of the demand. I want the impact
my subwoofers can deliver, but I do not want to destroy my tweeters.
This is a tall task in the analog domain, but I think I can do it.

Now to provide the dynamic headroom, heretofore unseen on Earth, I
will have to build a time constant into it. I will have to tkae into
account what my speakers can tak as wel as the ouput devices, actually
moreso.

It is time, I am getting to the pimt where I really want to do this. I
know I can. I have a very different bias cicuit that is tolerant of
supply rail changes, I did find a wat to compensate. I know how to use
commutator switches and efven analog commutators, but thet is not the
direction I want to take. I want to give my amp alot of headtroom so
it never distorts. Impossible you say ? I have already designed it.

Even some generic 829 can do it, the trick to keep the distortion down
is to keep the gain stage out of the loop untill and unless it is
needed. In other words the 829 just shuts up until it is time. It will
add a bit of residual noise but that is all.

But this is more advanced, I want the power supply to tradck the
audio, and provide a PREDETERMINED amount of extra power for a very
short time.

Don't get me wrong, set this thing to max and you got over 500 watts a
channel into four ohms. It would be 600 into my speakers but it will
never see that level unless I go spend money on something else.

My speakers are good enough that I wnt to keep them, and they are good
enough to land me in jail. How much more power do I need ? But I would
consider this a personal achievement, to build this.

We are talking twelve really good bipolars, twelve high speed FETs and
four coils alomg with a few high performance lower capacity filters.

I mean I want to detect when a woofer cone goes out of the magnetic
field via current monitoring. I have never seen an amp do this right.
I mean in a real time way with no digital. And this is only for the
bass. I got plans for the rest of the audio spectrum as well.

JURB
Aiwa did something similar to this years back, when they had the supply
rails to the output stages switched 'on the fly' by FETs, according to the
demands of power. There was then a very sophisticated protection circuit,
which monitored many things, including output current.

Arfa
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not just any amp. I know how to do it and it is not only time to prove
myself, my Sansui fried
And it it's not a repair issue, the post doesn't belong here.

This is sci.electronics.repair, not something else.

Read Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and post in the proper place instead of adding to the decline
of this newsgroup.

Michael
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael Black said:
And it it's not a repair issue, the post doesn't belong here.

This is sci.electronics.repair, not something else.

Read Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and post in the proper place instead of adding to the decline
of this newsgroup.

Michael

Apart from the obvious spam posts, which almost all groups suffer from, and
is by no means the fault of the posters here, I see nothing that constitutes
the spiralling decline that you are always bleating on about as occuring to
this group. I have been active on it for some years now, and it seems to me
that little has changed. Most questions still get answered in a polite and
gentlemanly way. Most posters' problems are resolved by the regular posters,
much as on other groups. I don't see anything in the guide that you have
linked to, which seems to cover any kind of 'decline' that you perceive. You
have a real bee in your bonnet about what you consider to be off-topic
posting. As I have said to you before, sometimes people wander on here by
accident with a question which, whilst being electronically related, is not
necessarily to do with repair, but never-the-less is still an interesting
discussion point. Sometimes, regular posters, who regularly help out with
other people's problems, (such as ZZ who started this thread) have a general
electronics issue that they wish to discuss with other engineers who are
their 'net friends'. Should they go off to some other group where they don't
know anyone, just to please you ? Sometimes, real engineers just want to
'chat amongst themselves' about things in which they have a mutual interest,
which may not be directly repair related. Provided that this takes place
generally within existing threads, I don't see that it impacts on the
validity of the group as being one primarily for repair topics, at all.

Just as a matter of interest, other than playing at usenet policeman, just
what exactly do you consider your function on here to be ? I don't recall
ever having seen you make a constructive repair reply to any poster. Do you
even have an electronics repair background ? Your normal input is just to
tell people that their post is unwelcome, and to clear off to a different
group ...

Arfa
 
J

jakdedert

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just as a matter of interest, other than playing at usenet policeman, just
what exactly do you consider your function on here to be ? I don't recall
ever having seen you make a constructive repair reply to any poster. Do you
even have an electronics repair background ? Your normal input is just to
tell people that their post is unwelcome, and to clear off to a different
group ...

Bingo! This is the heart of the matter. Nobody named 'Michael' has
ever, TTBOMK, contributed anything of value to this forum. I myself
have contributed damn little beyond anecdotal advice; but I have learned
much from the masters here. That would not include Michael, whomever he is.

I suggest to him, that he get a life and quit trying to run others'.....

jak
 
H

hr(bob) [email protected]

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bingo! This is the heart of the matter. Nobody named 'Michael' has
ever, TTBOMK, contributed anything of value to this forum. I myself
have contributed damn little beyond anecdotal advice; but I have learned
much from the masters here. That would not include Michael, whomever he is.

I suggest to him, that he get a life and quit trying to run others'.....

jak




- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you check Michael's profile, he has posted more than 14,000 times
in the past couple of years to every single usenet group. The
internet is his life, poor soul.

The original Poster did post a strange sort of message, but that's
still no excuse for the kind of reply he received from Michael.

H. R;l (Bob) Hofmann
 
M

Meat Plow

Jan 1, 1970
0
And it it's not a repair issue, the post doesn't belong here.

Your reply is not a repair issue. By your own logic it does not belong
here either. Practice what you preach Netcop-Wannabe.
 
P

Paul Feaker

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
And it it's not a repair issue, the post doesn't belong here.

This is sci.electronics.repair, not something else.

Read Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and post in the proper place instead of adding to the decline
of this newsgroup.

Michael

I don't recall a time when you told somebody how to fix their tv or
whatever every time I read a post from you you're bitching about
somebody's else's posts because you're too much of a retard to actually
input some useful information.

Go start your own newsgroup you fucking faggot.
 
"Why don't you learn how to use Google, Jerk."

You know what, I'll show you what kind of jerk I am. My IQ is around
200 what the **** is your's ? I can do the math to build an amp like
this in my head, can you ?

All you know is fucking Google for this and Google for that. You know
nothing, you depend on outside sources, while I find my own, and have
all my life.

Don't bring that fucked up brain to a battle of wits with me. While I
admit I had a buzz on when I posted this, the idea is clear. And it is
really strange that using Google is what gets me here. What's more I
doubt you comprehend search engines better than me, I had a four word
string that came up with ONE result. The four words are available to
those in my good favor.

Get off your high horse and uncall me a jerk. Then we can talk.

Just your one statement gave me your whole life. I know how you are
and I know how to hurt you. Am I still a jerk or not ?

I will get to the rest of the responses ASAP.

For the rest of you, I really don't like to get like this with people,
but this is usenet, and you never know where someone is. I can incite
this guy to want to kill me, I can simply tell him where I live. I
even have help to get rid of the body.

I do not know how to use Google ? for what ? A circuit design ? Hell
no. Mine is better, it autocompensates for varying supply voltages,
and there is not a single capacitor in the circuit. So the supply
voltage can change fast, and that is what I want.

OK, I will start another reply here, this guy got his, now I go read
the rest.

And Lynn, you are obviously young, I have no doubt. Learn. You have
not the power to embarrass me,I am secure in my achievements and my
holdings.

When you call off work and tell them straight out you took off
because you did a bunch of coke the other night you might be able to
tell me who has skills.

I do not want anyoine else's design, I want MINE.

I settle for no less. And I can Google with the best of them. Do not
**** with me again Lynn.

T

Be Back Soon.
 
M

Michael Kennedy

Jan 1, 1970
0
jakdedert said:
Bingo! This is the heart of the matter. Nobody named 'Michael' has ever,
TTBOMK, contributed anything of value to this forum. I myself have
contributed damn little beyond anecdotal advice; but I have learned much
from the masters here. That would not include Michael, whomever he is.

I suggest to him, that he get a life and quit trying to run others'.....

jak

I didn't think that I had never contributed anything... I don't think I have
contributed a lot since I'm not an electronics engineer, but every now and
then I help answer easy questions that passer byes ask like whats wrong with
my LCD monitor. :)


Mike
 
Lookit, if we can't play nice, well I dunno.

I have met some good people here Bill Jr and Leonard come to mind.
They both have helped me out, as have others. I try to help people
when I can. If this bullshit does not stop all the good people will
leave, leave the morons to their own means, which amounts to nothing.

let me tell all the motherfuckers around here about just who I am . I
am also JURB6006. I have been published all over the web, and even
though they caught it in this newsgroup doesn't mean credit goes to
this newsgroup. I have been to pay sites at work and seen my own
posts. As such I don't have to take shit from anyone.

I decided to post a post about the amp I am going to build, you got a
fucking problem with it, answer one fucking question; do you own
usenet ? Do you even own sci.electronics.repair ? Can you even type
that ? I just did.

And amma fuckin tellya one more thing, people who fix electronics know
alot more about certain aspects of it. And that is why the post is
here. If anyone doesn't like it I have a fucking perfect solution for
you, when your mouse pointer is over a thread you don't like, DO NOT
CLICK IT ! It is treally that fucking simple.

My next post is going to deal with the specifics of the analog
algorithms used in the power limiting system. The fucking peanut
gallery will shut up. Ideally I would like to get it to set itself,
detect the peak in current that is always precedent to a woofer
blowing.

Anyone who wants to flame me can go to work for eight bucks an hour.
This is higher reasoning and I put it here for good reason. My reason.
AND this is not
sci.geteveryassholesopiniononwhatbelongshere.lynnsspace.

Boil it all down, anybody who says I shouldn't post this here can go
**** themselves, I have every right to be here and I have helped many.
If you think that bullshit and you think you are some kind of police
or something I will give you my home address, and when you get here
you will leave with a 327 Chey V8 camshaft up your ass, guaranteed,
and if you think you might like that, we can use your throat instead.
Just ask.

Just ask.

I won't bother to sign this, you knoiw who it is from.
 
Now that we got that out of the way......

I have been thinking about this algorithm, this is a bit new to me,
but I do want to persue it.

OK this is a bit of a complicated situation, but the engineering can
be of great benefit. My speakers are Boston Acoustic A150s with the
addition of four ohm subwoofers on each side. I have no desire to
biamp them, and I wouldn't mind having a really great amp.

I can't let those 65 volt rails near my speakers, but....

First of all I would like to have the dynamic range reproduced
transparently until and unless the unit is cranked, and the does mean
significant power of course, and it also means a smooth transisition
from real to managed dynamic range when the power linits are
exceeded.

But do they have to be set or can they be detected ? I am sure it can
be done with woofers, but what about the mids and tweets ? I like
bass, but not to the exclusion of the rest of the sound.

Those who know, in an amp you have the main feedback resistors, a
divider network that sets the gain. at the point where the cap goes to
ground, is my circuit. It is a short circuit until needed, then it can
reduce the voltage gain of the whole stage.

For one it will always be triggered by clipping, and that comes either
at 200 something a channel or some lower limit set. Then it also
monitors abrupt increases in current in the bass regions. Now if it is
running in cranked mode, it also handles the dynamic range. The power
regultors will allow short bursts, even of full power if the impedance
of the speaker does not drop like rock. When that happens, it charges
a capacitor, which limits further incursion into the power range that
can kill the speakers. It doesn't lowr the average power setting that
the user determined, just the allowed headroom.

I think I need these regulators to operate at least at 150Khz or so,
and designing that part is no joke.The thing is what to do with it. I
mean how do you determine how much power is too much ?

While I think dynamic midranges and tweeters can be detected the same
way, and intend to implement multiband detection, I do not want
multiband control. If any speaker is in danger I want the gain cut.
All of it, I do not want to affect the frequency response.

More later.

JURB
 
M

Michael Black

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
I don't recall a time when you told somebody how to fix their tv or
whatever every time I read a post from you you're bitching about
somebody's else's posts because you're too much of a retard to actually
input some useful information.
Well bozo, I've been reading this newsgroup since 1995. I can remember
when it was loaded with posts about repair.

I read it to learn, and posted when I had something to contribute.

I've had enough posts here, and hey, there's even a snippet of
one of mine in the FAQ.

But like so many other newsgroups, it's turning into a hangout for
people who can't be bothered finding the right newsgroup.

The "proof" of someone's value to a newsgroup is not how many posts
they make. Because some people with too much time on their hands
decide they'll hang out in a newsgroup, and post all kinds of off-topic
junk. They rack up massive posting history in that newsgroup (and
too often don't post anywhere else), but they often don't have that
much to say on topic.

The newsgroup becomes their hangout, and they don't care what
the original intent of the newsgroup was.

The lack of on topic messages makes people tune out, the
"regulars" don't notice, because they are too busy hanging out.
Indeed, those "regulars" are likely shorter time posters than
the people who leave.

And the fewer people who read a newsgroup means the fewer people
who are around to reply when someone needs something. The pool
of people who can answer is diminished. Just because a handful
are oh so quick to respond to every post at any hour of the
day does not mean they are the best people to answer all questions.

Someone who traced the linear/power supply board in the Mac Plus
years ago won't be of much value when someone asks about it if
they are no longer reading the newsgroup.

Some specific bit of knowledge may come up rarely, but the
moment someone asks about that area, you'd better hope they
are still reading the newsgroup.

If the hotshot "regulars" so badly want to answer every single
post, then let them find the proper newsgroup.

When so much of the posting is off-topic, it's not really a surprise
that I have nothing "worth" posting about.

While ironically, there is nothing much to post about in the proper
place either, because they aren't getting the on-topic posts either.

I can remember when sci.electronics was split. "Too much traffic"
some complaind about. It was rather brisk, but then I was using
a 2400 baud modem and had no more than an hour a day access
to the BBS where I was reading the newsgroups.

But what we have now is lots of newsgroups, and half the time
people don't even post in the right place. I don't read .design
any more because it became a hangout, the swaggering of the "regulars"
who took over the newsgroup, who "decided" it was acceptable to
post all kinds of junk. The fact that there is a lot of political
junk in there is both a cause and effect, because they decided
it was acceptable and then hey, one thing people fight about
is politics. But then all kinds of beginners post there because
"this has the most traffic".

Meanwhile, there is a perfectly good newsgroup for .basic posts,
and it's pretty empty because nobody much is using it for its
intended purpose. There's one about .components and it's underused,
and so on. There area load and loads of newsgroups to discuss
computers, and places to discuss vacuum tubes.

We might as well all fold into One Big Newsgroup if people can't
be bothered to use the proper ones.

ANd hey, when idiots post in the wrong newsgroup, they hurt
themselves. Any beginner who posts in .design is likely to
get an answer that isn't useful to them. Someone who posts
here about a computer problem is relying on someone incidentally
having knowledge that can solve it. Find the right place,
and you increase your chances of getting a useful answer.

Most of the newsgroups I read, I've read daily for over a decade.
I've added some, a handful I've tuned into for a relatively short
time, but most of the newsgroups I read today I was reading a decade
ago. But increasingly I am tuning out. Not because of spam, not
even because of the too often massive cross-posting. I don't tune
out because there's no traffic (some get a handful of posts
every few months).

No, I tune out when it becomes a hangout. People more interested
in arguing among themselves than talking to each other. People
bored with the purpose of the newsgroup, who still stick around
instead of finding the proper place, so they post about the weather
and politics and their computer problems and everything else.

And in each of those newsgroups, I have a "big enough" posting
history. I also have a long enough reading history. But hey, it's
dwarfed by the people who rack up thousands of messages in a few years, but
much of which isn't on topic.

If I wanted to read general purpose newsgroups, I'd read the local
newsgroup (which ironically I do, but it's not being used much).

Most people don't realize how a newsgroup declines, because they
aren't paying attention. And by the time it is noticeable by many,
it's too late.

Michael
 
L

Lynn

Jan 1, 1970
0
And it it's not a repair issue, the post doesn't belong here.

This is sci.electronics.repair, not something else.

Read Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy
ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt
and post in the proper place instead of adding to the decline
of this newsgroup.

Michael

I got an even bette idea. How about you go **** yourself?

the original poster has posted here several times and is well
repected.

What have you posted here besides your bitching?
 
F

Fleetie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Arfa Daily said:
Apart from the obvious spam posts, which almost all groups suffer from, and
[... etc.]

Well said, Arfa!
 
J

John Todd

Jan 1, 1970
0
But this is more advanced, I want the power supply to tradck the
audio, and provide a PREDETERMINED amount of extra power for a very
short time.

Power supply tracking audio, implemented in analog--in its
simplest form, this is a description of an audio amp! How will you
prevent the introduction of distortion?
 
M

Meat Plow

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well bozo, I've been reading this newsgroup since 1995. I can remember
when it was loaded with posts about repair.

I read it to learn, and posted when I had something to contribute.

I've had enough posts here, and hey, there's even a snippet of
one of mine in the FAQ.

But like so many other newsgroups, it's turning into a hangout for
people who can't be bothered finding the right newsgroup.

The "proof" of someone's value to a newsgroup is not how many posts
they make. Because some people with too much time on their hands
decide they'll hang out in a newsgroup, and post all kinds of off-topic
junk. They rack up massive posting history in that newsgroup (and
too often don't post anywhere else), but they often don't have that
much to say on topic.

The newsgroup becomes their hangout, and they don't care what
the original intent of the newsgroup was.

The lack of on topic messages makes people tune out, the
"regulars" don't notice, because they are too busy hanging out.
Indeed, those "regulars" are likely shorter time posters than
the people who leave.

And the fewer people who read a newsgroup means the fewer people
who are around to reply when someone needs something. The pool
of people who can answer is diminished. Just because a handful
are oh so quick to respond to every post at any hour of the
day does not mean they are the best people to answer all questions.

Someone who traced the linear/power supply board in the Mac Plus
years ago won't be of much value when someone asks about it if
they are no longer reading the newsgroup.

Some specific bit of knowledge may come up rarely, but the
moment someone asks about that area, you'd better hope they
are still reading the newsgroup.

If the hotshot "regulars" so badly want to answer every single
post, then let them find the proper newsgroup.

When so much of the posting is off-topic, it's not really a surprise
that I have nothing "worth" posting about.

While ironically, there is nothing much to post about in the proper
place either, because they aren't getting the on-topic posts either.

I can remember when sci.electronics was split. "Too much traffic"
some complaind about. It was rather brisk, but then I was using
a 2400 baud modem and had no more than an hour a day access
to the BBS where I was reading the newsgroups.

But what we have now is lots of newsgroups, and half the time
people don't even post in the right place. I don't read .design
any more because it became a hangout, the swaggering of the "regulars"
who took over the newsgroup, who "decided" it was acceptable to
post all kinds of junk. The fact that there is a lot of political
junk in there is both a cause and effect, because they decided
it was acceptable and then hey, one thing people fight about
is politics. But then all kinds of beginners post there because
"this has the most traffic".

Meanwhile, there is a perfectly good newsgroup for .basic posts,
and it's pretty empty because nobody much is using it for its
intended purpose. There's one about .components and it's underused,
and so on. There area load and loads of newsgroups to discuss
computers, and places to discuss vacuum tubes.

We might as well all fold into One Big Newsgroup if people can't
be bothered to use the proper ones.

ANd hey, when idiots post in the wrong newsgroup, they hurt
themselves. Any beginner who posts in .design is likely to
get an answer that isn't useful to them. Someone who posts
here about a computer problem is relying on someone incidentally
having knowledge that can solve it. Find the right place,
and you increase your chances of getting a useful answer.

Most of the newsgroups I read, I've read daily for over a decade.
I've added some, a handful I've tuned into for a relatively short
time, but most of the newsgroups I read today I was reading a decade
ago. But increasingly I am tuning out. Not because of spam, not
even because of the too often massive cross-posting. I don't tune
out because there's no traffic (some get a handful of posts
every few months).

No, I tune out when it becomes a hangout. People more interested
in arguing among themselves than talking to each other. People
bored with the purpose of the newsgroup, who still stick around
instead of finding the proper place, so they post about the weather
and politics and their computer problems and everything else.

And in each of those newsgroups, I have a "big enough" posting
history. I also have a long enough reading history. But hey, it's
dwarfed by the people who rack up thousands of messages in a few years, but
much of which isn't on topic.

If I wanted to read general purpose newsgroups, I'd read the local
newsgroup (which ironically I do, but it's not being used much).

Most people don't realize how a newsgroup declines, because they
aren't paying attention. And by the time it is noticeable by many,
it's too late.

You're a real fuckhead. You don't own the group and if you don't like
reading it then unsubscribe now and save those that like to hang out here
the trouble of reading your petty fucking bitching.
 
A

Arfa Daily

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael Black said:
Well bozo, I've been reading this newsgroup since 1995. I can remember
when it was loaded with posts about repair.

I read it to learn, and posted when I had something to contribute.

I've had enough posts here, and hey, there's even a snippet of
one of mine in the FAQ.

But like so many other newsgroups, it's turning into a hangout for
people who can't be bothered finding the right newsgroup.

The "proof" of someone's value to a newsgroup is not how many posts
they make. Because some people with too much time on their hands
decide they'll hang out in a newsgroup, and post all kinds of off-topic
junk. They rack up massive posting history in that newsgroup (and
too often don't post anywhere else), but they often don't have that
much to say on topic.

The newsgroup becomes their hangout, and they don't care what
the original intent of the newsgroup was.

The lack of on topic messages makes people tune out, the
"regulars" don't notice, because they are too busy hanging out.
Indeed, those "regulars" are likely shorter time posters than
the people who leave.

And the fewer people who read a newsgroup means the fewer people
who are around to reply when someone needs something. The pool
of people who can answer is diminished. Just because a handful
are oh so quick to respond to every post at any hour of the
day does not mean they are the best people to answer all questions.

Someone who traced the linear/power supply board in the Mac Plus
years ago won't be of much value when someone asks about it if
they are no longer reading the newsgroup.

Some specific bit of knowledge may come up rarely, but the
moment someone asks about that area, you'd better hope they
are still reading the newsgroup.

If the hotshot "regulars" so badly want to answer every single
post, then let them find the proper newsgroup.

When so much of the posting is off-topic, it's not really a surprise
that I have nothing "worth" posting about.

While ironically, there is nothing much to post about in the proper
place either, because they aren't getting the on-topic posts either.

I can remember when sci.electronics was split. "Too much traffic"
some complaind about. It was rather brisk, but then I was using
a 2400 baud modem and had no more than an hour a day access
to the BBS where I was reading the newsgroups.

But what we have now is lots of newsgroups, and half the time
people don't even post in the right place. I don't read .design
any more because it became a hangout, the swaggering of the "regulars"
who took over the newsgroup, who "decided" it was acceptable to
post all kinds of junk. The fact that there is a lot of political
junk in there is both a cause and effect, because they decided
it was acceptable and then hey, one thing people fight about
is politics. But then all kinds of beginners post there because
"this has the most traffic".

Meanwhile, there is a perfectly good newsgroup for .basic posts,
and it's pretty empty because nobody much is using it for its
intended purpose. There's one about .components and it's underused,
and so on. There area load and loads of newsgroups to discuss
computers, and places to discuss vacuum tubes.

We might as well all fold into One Big Newsgroup if people can't
be bothered to use the proper ones.

ANd hey, when idiots post in the wrong newsgroup, they hurt
themselves. Any beginner who posts in .design is likely to
get an answer that isn't useful to them. Someone who posts
here about a computer problem is relying on someone incidentally
having knowledge that can solve it. Find the right place,
and you increase your chances of getting a useful answer.

Most of the newsgroups I read, I've read daily for over a decade.
I've added some, a handful I've tuned into for a relatively short
time, but most of the newsgroups I read today I was reading a decade
ago. But increasingly I am tuning out. Not because of spam, not
even because of the too often massive cross-posting. I don't tune
out because there's no traffic (some get a handful of posts
every few months).

No, I tune out when it becomes a hangout. People more interested
in arguing among themselves than talking to each other. People
bored with the purpose of the newsgroup, who still stick around
instead of finding the proper place, so they post about the weather
and politics and their computer problems and everything else.

And in each of those newsgroups, I have a "big enough" posting
history. I also have a long enough reading history. But hey, it's
dwarfed by the people who rack up thousands of messages in a few years,
but
much of which isn't on topic.

If I wanted to read general purpose newsgroups, I'd read the local
newsgroup (which ironically I do, but it's not being used much).

Most people don't realize how a newsgroup declines, because they
aren't paying attention. And by the time it is noticeable by many,
it's too late.

Michael

You know, if you had a valid point with respect to this particular group, I
might be persuaded to go along with you, but over the years that I have
'hung out' on here as you so quaintly put it, I have seen no signs of any
kind of general decline. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this
newsgroup is a shining example of one that continues to exist for its
primary purpose of helping people with their repair problems, and is
absolutely the right place for anyone with a repair-related question. The
vast majority of posts to this group - and there are a good number most
days - are absolutely 'on-topic' by your very limited criteria, and get
dealt with by one or many of the very good people who 'hang out' on here,
and have a huge raft of both specialist and general electronic knowledge
gained by a lifetime either as a professional or serious hobbyist.

I, and I'm sure many others who 'hang out' on here, resent your implication
that we are internet saddos who live to jump on every post, and collect as
many posting statistics as possible. I come on here, as part of my
professional life, because I feel that 35 years of experience in the repair
business, is worth offering to amateurs, hobbyists and less or differently
experienced professional service engineers. I genuinely enjoy helping
others, and I'm pretty sure that most of the other regulars on here, do as
well. I also come here to continue to learn from others differently
experienced from myself, as I'm certain many of the other regulars do.

If you are active in a useful way on all of the newsgroups that you claim,
and you honestly believe that this one is in terminal decline, then perhaps
you should just leave, as you keep threatening to do. Perhaps you should
also stop and consider the old phrase "If things don't change, they'll stay
as they are ..." Nothing in this world stands still. Everything evolves,
and not always for what we might all consider to be the better. Usenet is no
exception. There is now a much wider spectrum of people who know that Usenet
exists, and have found out how to get access to it. That in itself changes
the nature of the beast. Accept it. Get over it. Move with the times.

And if you can't, then really do consider departing to a group where there
*are* problems, and your dissenting voice might be better heard and received
....

Arfa
 
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