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Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by amdx, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Here's the page with the government numbers.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/historicals

    Be sure and get back, to apologize for not believing accounting
    numbers straight from the government and reprinted by Heritage.

    But the point was you said, "Federal income taxes are - in large part
    - forced payments into a defense fund to pay for a standing army"
    The government says it's only 27.4% of tax revenues.
    I said, " Entitlements take 90% of all the tax money that is collected"
    The government says it's 84%.
     
  2. P E Schoen

    P E Schoen Guest

    "Jon Kirwan" wrote in message
    That's an excellent article, and although I don't fully understand
    economics, especially on the macro level, the points made make a lot of
    sense. In fact, I think my problem with understanding macroeconomics even as
    I was studying it at Hopkins in the late 60s, was that I tried to use too
    much logic and scientific reasoning, whereas the system is actually founded
    on abstract concepts such as emotions (feeling good or bad), perceived
    worth, value added, and assumptions of ever increasing growth in an
    environment of unlimited resources. Those ideas may have made sense at that
    time, before peak oil and the rapid emergence of global players, and indeed
    many people made lots of money by essentially gambling in the stock market
    and financial institutions in the later 70s and 80s.

    It really does come down to personal (and corporate) greed, and materialism
    that has always been part of the economic ruling elite, but more recently
    has become expected as an entitlement by the average (and below average)
    citizen, and their numbers now include many more from developing countries.
    We all want to be "above average", as Garrison Keeler might say, and that
    makes about as much sense as the still struggling and fundamentally
    dysfunctional concepts of economics and wealth and business practices,
    especially in the financial sector.

    Paul
     
  3. hamilton

    hamilton Guest

    When making breakfast, the chicken is involved, the pig is committed.

    So Congress are chickens, only.
     
  4. Jon Kirwan

    Jon Kirwan Guest

    I thought so and I read it first when it was initially
    published. But I'm also always conscious of my own observer
    bias, too. So while I think the article is reasonably
    accurate and expresses some "higher truths" about the reality
    here... it may be that I think so because it confirms my own
    earlier conclusions. I hate saying all that, but I am ever
    wary of my own ability to be selective. It's a necessary (but
    of course not sufficient) awareness to keep in mind if you
    want to build solid foundations of knowledge.
    I could add a great deal to this, as I spent many many
    hundreds of personal hours studying and listening to
    testimony during the 1980's regarding the 1982 banking bill
    and the way it was abused by the Reagan (actually Bush)
    administration in order to strip hundreds of billions of
    illicit dollars when Congress was unwilling to fund their
    world view politics abroad. (They hated the impact of the
    Boland Amendments, for example, and used it skirt them at the
    terrible expense of nearly 1 trillion US dollars to the
    public.) But I'll stop short of writing a treatise here.
    If you want to get a real-world glimpse of what kind of
    attitudes are bred at the very top, watch some episodes of
    "You're Cut Off" someday. I've been personally involved in
    venture funding, so I've met a few of these people myself.
    They actually exist.

    Jon
     
  5. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    The art is in selecting the numbers. Only idiots find it necessary to falsify them.
    A quarter is a large part.
    "Entitlements" is a concept invented and defined by right-wing nit-wits. Anybody who uses it is endorsing a particular point of view - not a point of view that any rational observer would find useful in explaining what is actually going on, but useful if the only idea you have in your head is that taxes are too high.
     
  6. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    * That's Congress------------^-----------^
     
  7. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    It's heavy going - it's well written but it covers a lot of ground, and is more interested in the intellectual under-pinnings of the democratic activists than it is in their actions when they got power. The early days of the French Revolution get a lot of attention, but it's subsequent decline into the terror that allowed Napoleon to step in as a saviour is pretty much outside his sphere of interest.
    Jonathan Israel is a great educator. You may decide that you don't need to know quite that much about the specific issues that interest him - which ishow we got to our current world view, and - incidentally - how Spinoza managed to shape that world-view, mainly by thinking more clearly than anybodyelse.
    And the people who collect that money have a vested interest in keeping theAmerican political scene as one where other people (with lots of money) can keep on paying them to manufacture consent on an industrial scale.

    The electrical power industry is polluting the atmosphere with carbon dioxide, and the political power industry is polluting the intellectual atmosphere with pernicious nonsense, climate change denialism being a depressing example.
    For May 2009 it's remarkably prescient.
     
  8. cameo

    cameo Guest

    In other words: No representation without taxation!
     
  9. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Hmm... That's what the Obama administration calls them.

    But you're probably right, all the people receiving them, really aren't
    entitled.
    Mikek
     
  10. amdx

    amdx Guest

    I stirred the pot and look what came out! Very nice! LOL
    Mikek
     
  11. amdx

    amdx Guest

    This is just a test, I've been having problems replying from my laptop.
    I might add, I'm pretty good at ignoring name calling, and I don't think
    I do any name calling myself.
    Mikek
     
  12. rickman

    rickman Guest

    I would never go so far as to say *everyone's* opinion is "important".
    They may be entitled to it, but many opinion are not very valuable...
    just read Jim's post above ;)

    You want to include those who worked for many years, paid into various
    retirement plans and now are reaping the rewards of their capital?
    Income doesn't include capital gains.

    Or do you only want to include those who are without the means of
    producing an income, no capital, no job and no prospects?
     
  13. rickman

    rickman Guest

    Can you explain why those on disability incomes should loose the right
    to vote? It seems to me they have LOTS of "skin in the game".
     
  14. amdx

    amdx Guest

    This may get complicated, but we can probably do it in 5 pages,
    instead of 2,700.
    As long as I'm ruler I can make the rules as the political winds push me.
     
  15. amdx

    amdx Guest

    My latest info is, a 53 yr old male that spent 3 years living free on
    someones junk boat, collecting foods stamps. After 3 years of fighting
    the SS system he finally got on disability, but could not collect
    through SS because he had not worked enough in his life to earn the
    credits needed. So they did it with SSI. The same week he won his claim
    he got a job on a shrimp boat, somehow that fell though and he ended up
    on a fishing boat one of the most dangerous professions. These boats go
    to sea for 2 to 3 weeks, must be hard on his disabled back.

    I may be mistaken, I thought SSI was for those who didn't pay much
    into the system.
    Mikek
     
  16. amdx

    amdx Guest

    No not really, I work more than I want, and my back hurts,
    but I have a great wife, two good kids, one just graduated, the other in
    his second year at the university. The grad got a job within a week and
    a half after graduating, didn't even move back home. I never expected
    she would, she's a highly motivated young women, must get it
    from her mother.
    My wife and I have lived a frugal life and when I retire in about 3
    years I'll be more than comfortable.
    I'm looking forward to figuring out what I want during retirement.
    Oh and I have a granddog too! His name is Stanley.
    Mikek :)
     
  17. Bill Sloman

    Bill Sloman Guest

    Rickman probably has enough sense to realise that teachers are processing avariable raw material. Parents have to have some responsibility for bringing up kids who are hard to educate, and simple-minded measures of "teacher productivity" just provide extra motivation for teachers to avoid working in low income neighbourhoods.

    The US is already notorious as the advanced industrial country where choosing your parent carefully gives you the biggest life-time advantage, and discouraging teachers from working on the children of the poor isn't going to help.
     
  18. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    Heheheh. It couldn't possibly suck nearly as bad is it must suck to be
    you.

    To have a chance at arguing (let alone debating; alas a nearly lost art)
    you must know your opponents arguments at least as well as your opponent
    does. Something almost never seen here; what is most seen is total
    disregard for the opponents presentation.

    ?-)
     
  19. rickman

    rickman Guest

    This is an example of when you are both wrong. I do believe in holding
    teachers accountable for their performance. I remember all the times I
    was held accountable for my work and how I hated it. Of course I
    justified all the reasons why I didn't meet schedule or... well, that
    was the only real problem, not meeting a schedule someone else put
    together.

    My point is that over the years I have learned that everyone has to be
    held accountable for their performance. That doesn't mean using
    standardized tests to rate the performance of the kids being taught as
    if they were the only and most important measure of the teacher's
    performance. But some method needs to be applied that is realistic both
    from the teacher's perspective and respects the needs of the children.

    So how did we get off topic of an off topic thread? Oh yeah, Jim wanted
    to say something he thought would bug me. Did it work? Do you think
    you bugged me? I hope so. I want you to be happy Jim. :)
     
  20. rickman

    rickman Guest

    You didn't explain your reasoning very well. You describe a situation
    where someone apparently gamed the system into getting something he
    didn't deserve. But is that supposed to mean that *everyone* on SSI
    disability is gaming the system? What?

    I will say I envy the guy. I bet he is living high on the hog with that
    SSI check and the food stamps. Damn, where did I go wrong?
     
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